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Old 05-05-2008, 01:17 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
i looked over the side wall info on my april/2007 made tires...

it reads:

"tread 5 plys 2 polyester cord 2 steel cord 2 nylon cord"

"sidewall 2 plys 2 polyester cord"

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So.....what is it this tells us? Unless I'm mistaken, almost every ST, LT, and Passenger Car tire says "sidewall 2 plys 2 polyester cord"

Perhaps it is better to look at the date code on the tire. Perhaps check the DOT stamp. The last 4 digits should contain the date code, first two digits is week of the year and last two digits the year.
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Old 05-05-2008, 01:28 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Thompson
So.....what is it this tells us? Unless I'm mistaken, almost every ST, LT, and Passenger Car tire says "sidewall 2 plys 2 polyester cord"
NOT IF THE TIRE ALSO HAS A NYLON CAP....

the point is tires that DO have a nylon cap ALSO include that info, and the newer gyms (that i have) don't mention a cap.

going back to post 225....

srw has suggested that newer gyms have a nylon cap. i don't think that has been confirmed by anyone.

and the reference IS from 2 tires which i've correctly dated (april 2007) 16th week of 2007 and may 2007 (21st week)...

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2air'
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Old 05-05-2008, 01:44 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
...it reads:

"tread 5 plys 2 polyester cord 2 steel cord 2 nylon cord"

"sidewall 2 plys 2 polyester cord"...
too late on the edit and the 2 should be a 1...

"tread 5 plys.... 2 polyester cord 2 steel cord 1 nylon cord"

which is a total of 5 plys in the tread area...

but there is NO mention of a nylon cap...

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Old 05-05-2008, 01:48 PM   #242
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I bought 2 marathons in April in a pinch for bringing home my 1958 Flying Cloud. The owner's statement that the tires are "great" unfortunately didn't quite correspond with what I found....
I will say that the tires have a very different look to them, are madin in China, have a curb protector strip, and a colorful little logo vulcanized into the sidewall. I am unable to decipher anything about a nylon cap on teh sidewall. The tires look much better than my Original Marathons of the same size and weight rating that are on the Overlander.
The new Marathons look like a nice tire, whereas the old Marathons look like a middle school tire making experiment.
I don't know if they are actually better, and unfortunately I don't have the date codes handy. All I know is that from a purely visual impression, the new Marathons look substantially nicer.
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Old 05-05-2008, 02:01 PM   #243
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Plies and Pliers

I read somewhere (I have little idea where—though Consumer Reports is a possibility, or maybe I dreamed it) that data about plies is not exactly what we would think. It seems the ply counts are a rating, not the actual number of plies. So, I suppose a 5 ply tire could have 4 thick or 4 stronger plies and be rated 5 ply.

I'm not about to cut up my tires and see how many actual plies there are. For one thing, to get them apart, I'd have to use pretty strong pliers.

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Old 05-05-2008, 02:07 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I read somewhere (I have little idea where—though Consumer Reports is a possibility, or maybe I dreamed it) that data about plies is not exactly what we would think. It seems the ply counts are a rating, not the actual number of plies. So, I suppose a 5 ply tire could have 4 thick or 4 stronger plies and be rated 5 ply.

I'm not about to cut up my tires and see how many actual plies there are. For one thing, to get them apart, I'd have to use pretty strong pliers.

Gene
Gene you are correct. My Maxxis ST E rated tires are 10 ply rated but in actuality, physically have less than 10 plys.

Jack
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:32 PM   #245
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Hello 2Air:

Most of the stuff below you already know, but some maybe new.

I spoke with Rick Read of Goodyear Tires today and I have paraphrased below what he said. If I have misstated what he said it is unintentional and obviously my fault not his.

Marathon ST, special trailer, tires, 15” and 16” size, did have a nylon overlay (some incorrectly refer to this as a cap) added to their construction sometime after the year 2000; the exact year depends on the size of the tire.

Marathon’s are generally constructed as follows:
Two polyester plies applied completely across the tire and over the bead on each side of the tire.
Two steel plies, on the bias, applied longitudinally.
One nylon overlay applied longitudinally (sometimes mistakenly refered to as a "cap").
Plies are rubber coated to help them bond with the casing.

Further:
Goodyear ST tires are manufactured in China to Goodyear specifications.
Goodyear tires that have the letters “DOT” on the sidewall meet US DOT requirements.
Goodyear did manufacture tires for Greenball, but not for the last several years.
There are compounds in the rubber of the tire that require use. None use of the tire causes the compounds to become less effective and have a negative effective on the life of the tire.
The rule of thumb of replacing tires every three years is probably over stated. It’s better to inspect the tires and make a decision regards to replacement on a case by case basis.
Correct air pressure is very important to the life of the tire.

SRW
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:58 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady
SRW: To answer your questions. The Marathon that blew on the way to the Rally had probably 10-12k miles on it. I suppose truly ancient by Marathon standards. However, the one blown before that--that took out the wheel well on the other side of the trailer and set fire to the plywood subfloor-- had between 1 nd 15k miles on it. My son's Marathons had less than 6k miles. I bought my Marathons in August 2006, the Marathons came on my son's SOB bought summer 2006.
Blu_Hwy_Lady:

Thanks for replying to my question.

Golly, I am light years from being an expert on the subject of Marathon tires, but maybe, just maybe there is a correlation with lack of use, tire age and the problems you have experienced. I suppose it might relate to the fact if the miles were put on the tires at one time and then the trailer(s) sat in one place for a long period of time?

There are so many variables that lots of things might have contributed to the problems you have experienced, but one thing is certain that as consumers and end user we have the right to expect that products will function as promised by the manufacture.

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Old 05-05-2008, 04:44 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
Marathon ST, special trailer, tires, 15” and 16” size, did have a nylon overlay (some incorrectly refer to this as a cap) added to their construction sometime after the year 2000; the exact year depends on the size of the tire...
good info srw !

and that's why i posted the ply descriptions (posts #238/241), and the tire rack 'description' in post 225....

my suspicion was that your original source was confusing the nylon cord ply with a cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
I read somewhere...data about plies is not exactly what we would think. It seems the ply counts are a rating, not the actual number of plies....
close gene...

any tire information that counts and describes the actual plys is an accurate count...

load ratings and other descriptions used to compare modern radials to bias ply tires is the the misleading issue...

so a "8 ply rated" (d rating) or a "10 ply rated" (e rating) tire is likely to have only 4-6 actual plys...

hey perhaps u read it here!

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ply-35173.html

and LT tires aren't immune from failures either,

check on the pix and read POST #7 CLOSELY...IF you are considering E rated tires at lower pressures.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...art-25929.html

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:21 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman

check on the pix and read POST #7 CLOSELY...IF you are considering E rated tires at lower pressures.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...art-25929.html

cheers
2air'
That's always been a question mark in my mind that while the load bearing capacity of a tire changes with the air pressure, when does the air pressure get too low? Example on my E rated tires (80 psi max inflation), I could run 65 psi. According to the inflation charts provided by Maxxis, that tire has the same load bearing capacity as their D rated product at 65 psi.. Now my mind would tend to belive that the E running at 65 psi. might run hotter than a D at 65, assuming the tires are carrying identical loads.

Now obviously if you're carrying more weight than the inflated tires can carry, you are in trouble. But what is the tipping point where low inflation levels (assuming that you still are inflated enough to carry the load), have a negative effect on the life of the tire? No one has been able to explain that to me.

Technically the load capacity of 4 225X75 R15 tires at 25 psi is 5720 lbs. or 1430 per tire. Now logic tells me that you will destroy that tire running at 25 psi. Somewhere in the equation is a speed factor and most inflation charts don't show how tire speed also has an effect on the load bearing capacity of a tire. A perfect example is that if you blow a tire on a tandem axle you can tow on one wheel at lower speed. The reason for the slower speed is that the tire load capacity increases at slower speeds due to less heat being generated.

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Old 05-05-2008, 05:48 PM   #249
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yeah jack, it's never binary with tires.

i favor running at the stated pressure on the sidewalls and using properly rated tires.

IF using the e rated tires, i'd run lots of temp checks, not just with the surface (infrared) thermometer,

but using a thermometer that penetrates the rubber, they are commonly used on track racing tires.

then i'd try some 65 psi vs 70 psi vs 75 psi vs 80 psi legs and measure temps...

and IN 90+ weather i'd worry more.

i'd also likely inflate with dry nitrogen which does result in less internal heat...

and keep the speeds down, and especially on hot days...

and if the trailer is in storage for longer periods, i'd INFLATE THE E RATED TIRES to 80 psi during storage...

but i like to drive faster than 65 and trust the d rated tires and 65 psi has been good to me.

again there is NOT a lotta data yet, or a boat load of miles recorded on LT tires or UP rated capacities...

sometimes change is improvement and sometimes change is just change...

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:56 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
yeah jack, it's never binary with tires.

i favor running at the stated pressure on the sidewalls and using properly rated tires.

2air'
I've run the E's at 75 psi. That's only 5 psi below max inflation and since I normally travel at about 60 mph, it's well in my comfort zone and in my initial unofficial tire checks on my trip to Fl and back last year, the tires tend to run cool.

I think your big success with your Marathon's really is due to the fact that the tires don't sit long. With this entire controversy is the question of whether certain tires are more subject to failures due to lack of use. My Marathon that failed at 7,500 mile of use in season 4, got pretty good treatment regarding air pressure, towing speed, and protection from UV when parked. But at 7,500 miles you can see I'm not a frequent traveler. I sometimes wonder if that is the magic thread that ties many of the failures together?

Jack
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:41 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW

There are compounds in the rubber of the tire that require use. None use of the tire causes the compounds to become less effective and have a negative effective on the life of the tire. SRW
My trailer does not, will not, cannot, have constant use. This is primarily due to the fact that its a trailer. I think I'll look for tire that compliments the application.
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:28 PM   #252
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My trailer does not, will not, cannot, have constant use. This is primarily due to the fact that its a trailer. I think I'll look for tire that compliments the application.
Hi, You're exactly correct; ST tires "compliment the application" for trailers. Trailer tires are supposed to have extra UV protection for sitting in the sun.
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