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Old 03-14-2007, 02:24 PM   #127
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To me, price is important, but I'd personally like to know where I can get a tire where there are more happy campers than not. I'm concerned about the Marathons. I've had no problems with them myself, but then again, I also have had no issues with my Dometic fridge that **could** total my Safari under certain conditions as I am to find out now.

So the question is what model Maxxis is out there that would be able to hold over 8000lbs, that can go 65mph. If anyone can point me in that direction, I'd be happy to take a look at them as this is now going on my 4th season and I'm going to have to make a buy fairly soon as season 4 is right around the corner.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:29 PM   #128
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If you go to their website you can find the specs for all their UE-168(N) tires. In the service decription they include the speed rating. Most are rated above 93 mph; P, Q, or R speed rating. Some of the 16 inch tires have 3-ply sidewalls. ??

These are LT tires, not the ST tires.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:58 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
To me, price is important, but I'd personally like to know where I can get a tire where there are more happy campers than not.
hi twink

clearly millions more people are satisified with marathons than not.

and that is despite the recall/defective tire run.

which should have killed the tire. it did not.

i'm not a fan of LT tires for our trailers.

one interesting thing about the maxxis ST offering...

they have a 50psi model (less load rated) AND....

http://www.maxxis.com/products/trail.../m8008load.pdf

an 80psi model which has a higher load rating and is comparable to the 65 psi goodyear.

given it has a higher air pressure capacity and a little more load rating...

one could speculate it might be more robust than the marathons...

so that could be a good option in another 180,000 miles...

bernie is right. the makers keep blurring the ratings.

this tire is C and D and E rated and 10 ply equvalent....

but ALL ST tires are rated at 65mph. it is the current industry standard.

very simply what this means is the load carry capacity and other tire parameters are referenced/assured at a speed of 65mph.

it does not mean that the tire will breakdown at or above that speed in 10-15 minutes.

speed ratings for passenger car tires DO suggest a tire can operate at a given speed for 10-15min without failure...

distribution of maxxis is not wide, so that is a small issue.

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Old 03-14-2007, 03:49 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
one interesting thing about the maxxis ST offering...

an 80psi model which has a higher load rating...

given it has a higher air pressure capacity and a little more load rating...

one could speculate it might be more robust than the marathons...
I've been thinking about running the E rated (80PSI) maxxis tires at 65 PSI and wondering...

Would they last longer/be safer because they are stronger? Or would running E rated tires at 65 PSI be yet another case of underinflation that results in higher temps and thus early failure/less safety.

Has anyone who has switched to the Es measured their temperature? (and ideally compared it to running on the same trailer using Marathon Ds)
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:55 PM   #131
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Thanks...my head still hurts, but it's becoming more clear.
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:22 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
To me, price is important, but I'd personally like to know where I can get a tire where there are more happy campers than not. I'm concerned about the Marathons....
From 'our what it is worth' department...

The Marathon 'silent recall' issue was in 2000

Goodyear starting shipping 'circle S' Marathons around 2003 which the forums say were their new 'stronger' tires.

Since then what I've been able to read seems to suggest that Marathons owners are no more likely to experience problems than other manufactures given the Marathon's market share. And most of the problem posts seem to be of the 'I've had it for 3 years but it still had plenty of tread' variety.

Take all this as you will...it certainly doesn't necessarily mean that the Marathons are better or even as good...but it does suggest that they are not junk.
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:32 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady
And it looks like that's the way it is with somebody who doesn't have a Marathon blow-out. Here are 13 posts on epinion about Marathon tires. Note: there was 1 happy camper and the rest were scathing in their review. Also, note the dates: all within the last 2 years, so it wasn't just the Marathons from the 2000 class action lawsuit.

Here's the link:
Compare Prices and Read Reviews on Goodyear Marathon Radial Trailer Utility Tire at Epinions.com
Well I hate to say it but I'm not impressed by all these reviews. There was more than one happy camper that posted, another that didn't identify the tire as a Marathon but as a Goodyear/Carlile, another post identified that the weight of the their trailer exceed the rated capacity of the tires if tire pressure fell by 10%, and another person said they kept their speed under 60 after the failures (so the question was were they driving over 65?).

I just want to be clear that I have no allegiance to Goodyear by any means but I want to be clear here that we all understand that there could be multiple issues going on that may not be related entirely to the tire itself.

This brings into the picture of knowing the weight of your trailer, how losses in pressure (no matter how small), and the speed you travel at affect the reliability of those tires. And again the larger universe of tires out there is Marathon, which means that by nature you are going to get a lot more reports of problems. This is the tire that OEM's on most new trailers today.

Consider the fact of all of the current line of Airstream trailers today, those of us in the 31' Classic slide out's are most likely carrying more weight per tire, than any other unit. Now that doesn't account for the extra goodies you take on board but my maximum gross weight for my trailer is 9,100 lbs., with the newer units having even a higher load rating (I'm not sure what sized tires the newer one's use). But bottom line the Marathon tires used by Airstream on my sized Classic in 2004 can carry 10,160 lbs. at max infation levels of 65 lbs.(Based on Goodyear inflation charts) Drop that pressure by 5 lbs. and you lose 1,016 lbs of carrying capacity. That puts me at 9,144 lbs and if I'm at max cargo capacity, I'm for all intents at 100% of the tires capacity at 65 mph. Now lose more than 5 lbs., or drive faster than 65 mph and that tire's load limits fall even further.

If you have a new trailer with the higher load capacity, the same sized tire as me, and you are loaded over 9,144 lbs., a 5% drop in air pressure is unacceptable.

So who do you blame this on? My answer is the manufacturer of the trailer. It's not the fault of Goodyear if an RV manufacturer puts on a tire that is running 100% under full load, proper air pressure and rated speed. The reality is you can have a situation were you have no margin for error and to expect perfection is asking a lot.

So I'm going to be a stickler for air pressure. I'm going to drive no faster that 65 mph. I'm going to be careful regarding the goodies I carry with me, and how much liquid I carry in the holding tanks. Yeah I shouldn't have to be so careful but that's the reality of the tire game and until it's time for me to replace these tires (where I will have a choice), I'm going to do the work necessary to minimize the tires from failing.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse on this topic, but it's a lot more than just a bad tire issue from a specific manufacturer. I'm saying there are factors there that raise questions and just reporting that a tire brand is bad, may not be a true indication of the factors leading to the failures.

I only bring this up because I have been though some formal training regarding RV tires by RV-Self, an RV safety organization who has done weigh in and tire pressure checks at many rallies. What's amazing is the number of Class A motorhomes that are overloaded on one wheel when considering fuel and passengers, even though being within specs when weighing an axle.


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Old 03-14-2007, 04:47 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmiii
Would they last longer/be safer because they are stronger? Or would running E rated tires at 65 PSI be yet another case of underinflation that results in higher temps and thus early failure/less safety.
hi ljmiii

i don't think it is under inflation at all for this specific tire. according to the table this tire is rated for load carrying at 5 psi increments of air pressure upto 80psi.

so IF one knows their trailer weights and uses the table correctly....

80 psi can carry upto 2830lbs

65 psi can carry upto 2540lbs

50 psi can carry upto 2150lbs

along with the listings for each 5 psi in between....

a similar scale is used for the marathons but only up to 65psi..

none of this suggests or proves the maxxis is stronger, safer or more durable.

underinflation is running pressures lower than the load requirement or minimum for the tire.

underinflation is also running at the correct psi but over 65mph. goodyear suggests adding 10 psi to do this for the marathons.

most folks so seldom check pressures and are usually running underinflated.

so it is simplier and safer to just 'inflate to max' (50 or 65) on the marathons...

cheers
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Old 03-15-2007, 12:10 AM   #135
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Ply Rating

Hi, I hear some discussion about ply ratings on tires. This is not a quote and not exactly accurate, but close to how it was explained to me about thirty years ago. So after reading this, someone with real tire knowledge can chime in. Originally tires were marked as 8-ply Etc. And they truly were 8-ply. [eight plies of cotton] Then they went from cotton plies to nylon plies and since nylon was twice as strong as cotton they only used 4-plies to get the same stength as 8-plies of cotton. "thus, 8-ply rating" But not actually 8-plies. Then came steel and kevlar and whatever else.
That is my understanding of what "Ply Rating" means. I'll be waiting right here for the real tire experts to chime in, Please.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:34 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera
Now that doesn't account for the extra goodies you take on board but my maximum gross weight for my trailer is 9,100 lbs. But bottom line the Marathon tires used by Airstream on my sized Classic in 2004 can carry 10,160 lbs. at max infation levels of 65 lbs....
If it is any consolation, you are not quite that close to the edge. You'ld need to get your rig on a scale to know what is really going on, but a good rough guess is that even after weight distribution only around 90% of your airstream's GWVR (8190lbs) is resting on the axles.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:20 AM   #137
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Dated Marathons

I just looked at my marathons the other day ST225/75R15"D". Date code 335. I put only 1000 miles on these last year running 60/60. (60 mph/ 60 psi). As I'm only planning on about 1000 miles this year I'm just gonna continue till something gives, I need a little excitement. And now that Marathons are made in china I'll be switching to another brand, probably Maxxis. I think they are made in Taiwan.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:56 PM   #138
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Goodyear Marathon Failures

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That is why I eventually moved from Goodyear Marathon to ST tires.
I would be willing to bet that if the ST tires out there today were UTQG rated the temperature rating would be around a F to H. (They only go as low as C).
I came to realize that you get what you pay for. The ST tire in general is inexpensive. There is an underlying reason for this.
In my opinion, (for what its worth) for all that I've seen since embarking on this tire thing the only fault with the ST is the inability to withstand heat.
If the ST class of tire were made with the materials necessary to withstand max labeled inflation at max labeled load and survive 12 hour days in the desert west then we would have a tire, but the cost would be that of a Michelin LT or a Goodyear Commercial T/A.
Also, having seen the results of pushing mechanical things to the limit(debris fields, loss of life) I personally demand a safety margin.
Running 65 MPH on a tire with a speed rating of 65 MPH just doesn't do it for me.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:39 PM   #139
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If the ST class of tire were made with the materials necessary to withstand max labeled inflation at max labeled load and survive 12 hour days in the desert west then we would have a tire, but the cost would be that of a Michelin LT or a Goodyear Commercial T/A.
In the "you get what you pay for department" check the weights of an ST tire (any of them) vs a truck tire rated for a comparable load range. You'll find that "by the pound" they're around the same price.

That said I haven't ruled out and ST tire. I'm willing to drive slower. There's good reason for doing this when pulling a trailer; especially if, like me, your close to the weight capacity of your tow vehicle. And, no matter what tires or how big a truck you own stopping distance with a trailer is going to be significantly longer than when not towing. The hardest thing with finding tires is the damn 15" rims and trying not to lose any clearance vs. the originally spec'd 7.00X15 bias ply.

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Old 03-16-2007, 01:53 PM   #140
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As a relative newcomer to the Airstream community and after three early Marathon tire failures, two on the road and one in pre-flight, I tried max inflation at 65psi and no more than 65mph on the roadway. NO tire problems since. Amazing concept. Max inflation and slow down! Working for me so far. 14.1mpg with AC running this past trip too!
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