Goodyear Marathon Disaster Adverted

[Naper]

Sorry I don't have any pictures of the cracked Michelins I had them changed last week. The dealer told me this is not the first set they have changed.
The trailer does not sit for any long periods.
As for UV, all 4 tires were cracked the same hard to believe both sides would have equal sun exposure.

[Bill M.]

My first set of Michelin 15" LT tires developed surface cracking at 4 years age. All over all the tires. I changed them to the P235 15" XL tires are they are good with no signs of aging at 3 years. I expect I will keep running the Michelin tires and change them out every 4 years.

[m.hony]

I have a set of 5 year old Bridgestone Duelers on my Tundra. One has sidewall cracking.
I have a 4 year old set of Firestone Destination LE on my Pathfinder. One has sidewall cracking.
I think the one tire that is cracking must have more exposure to the sun.
I would think with the tires being rotated I should have 2 with sidewall cracking.
Maybe that second tire with sidewall cracking is just around the corner.
At any rate, all will be replaced in 1-3 years due to age.
I never get to wear out the tread any more.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Jacob D

Amen....finally a sensible comment on ST's. I have run GYM's for over 15 years on an Overlander, one set for 13 years and many miles (not recommended) with only one flat with a nail in it. That set was made in Canada. My current set with about 2,000 miles on it was made in China. I don't like the fact that they were made in China because I try hard to buy USA made products but at the time they were all I could get. The other thing I am amazed by is folks running speeds as high as 80 mph and tire pressures ranging from 60 to 85 psi. I run my GYM's at 43 psi based on the Good Year pressure/load chart published on their web site. I get a fairly soft ride with no rivets rattling loose and I feel safer at speeds closer to 60mph. Some folks complain that ST's have a 65 mph speed limit. I think anyone who pulls a trailer faster than that is asking for trouble.

I find 70 MPH a very comfortable and safe speed with an Airstream. If I have to drive 65 MPH or less I rather not own a trailer. I would go crazy being confined to driving 65 MPH or less. Had I not had the option to go to a better tire I would have sold the trailer.
Airstream factory installs 16" wheels and Michelins on their so called "Premium" trailers, Classic, Pendelton and Eddie Bauer which I find ironic because in comparison to other brands everything Airstream makes is premium priced. All their trailers should come with them from the factory and make the tire issue disappear from Airstreams.

[m.hony]

Even with the better tire 70 is too fast for towing a trailer.
Going 65 increases space in front of your vehicle therefore increasing reaction time and stopping distance.
These rigs don't stop on a dime even when in perfect mechanical repair.
Also, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph saves a lot of fuel.
I'll go slower if it gives my back pocket a break.
At the end of the day, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph doesn't change your day that much.
Even if driving 10 hours it will only add one hour to your day.
Who's driving 10 hours?
A shorter drive/shorter day only amounts to a few minutes going 65 rather than 70.
I would never say I'd rather not have a trailer of I have to go 65.
I tow at 60-65 mph all the time everywhere regardless if the speed limit is 70, 75, 80, or 85.
They can all go around me and admire my shiny silver trailer as they pass.

[PKI]

The argument that the reported failures are not representative is flawed, just as the position that quality costs money. If you were dropping babies in the delivery room in the numbers similar to the ST failure rate, the parents of the babies would think your behavior was significant.

There is no reason that a trailer tire on a travel trailer should be built to a different standard than the tire on the tow vehicle. None!

In our travels we see more and more tire tread on the road. It is not all commercial truck tire tread.

We all make the choices we feel are best for our circumstances. But no one should defend the quality of tires that fail. Establish the real root cause of the failure if at all possible. That improves the potential that at least we can make better informed choices.

It is entirely possible that the initial move to foreign manufacture produced flawed product and improvements in manufacturing have adequately addressed the issue. It is also possible that ST tires are not appropriate for a travel trailer.

Really appreciate the folks who post information and data. Thank you. Pat

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by PKI

The argument that the reported failures are not representative is flawed,

So if I walk into a hospital and ask "who is sick in here?", won't the answer not be representative of the population in general?

This is an Internet forum. It attracts people with problems. People with no problems rarely if ever come into a forum and say "hey, I didn't have a problem".

So no, the argument is not flawed.

[PKI]

Originally Posted by FCStreamer

So if I walk into a hospital and ask "who is sick in here?", won't the answer not be representative of the population in general?

This is an Internet forum. It attracts people with problems. People with no problems rarely if ever come into a forum and say "hey, I didn't have a problem".

So no, the argument is not flawed.

Lots of people who are sick are not in the hospital. But each case of Ebola or any other illness is significant because of the impact on people. So, yes, your argument is flawed. One failure is representative to identify the root cause of that failure. Your not representative argument has no value unless you discount the need for quality, as defined by no failure in normal use, with ST tires. A single failure with a Michelin tire is just as representative. Your argument is flawed. Yes, it is an internet forum. However, unless the poster is a troll and is not truthful, their information about a failure is valid. It has value. Discounting the information has no value. Statistical validity as a concept can be used incorrectly. Quality and safety are examples that case. The Pinto gas tank, the Lexus acceleration, and ST tire failures were and are significant.

Thanks for the forum. Pat

[jcanavera]

Likewise if the forum attracts folks with problems, it's interesting that the users of LT tires don't seem to flock here reporting failures. I think that with over 5 years + of user experiences of folks moving to LT tires, we've not seen any negative feedback other than typical road hazard situations which affect all tires. Obviously I think folks who have made the switch are getting positive results.

Jack

[OTRA15]

And just to remind everyone, there is an Argue Thread if you really want to go crazy!











.
.
.
.


http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html

[Action]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

In addition I really think that the life limiting factor for ST tires is the speed restrictions, and the combination of weight of your trailer and length of time that your ST tire is in use.

I agree! Since industry standards dictate tires with the ST designation are speed rated to 65 MPH (104 km/h) under normal inflation and load conditions, my opinion is the majority of the failure rate for ST tires is reflective of use greater than 65. And that is my opinion.

Since that is an industry standard and max speed limits are no longer 55. Owners drive the speed limit + a little.

Why an ST continues to have that standard is a different discussion. However that is the standard today. So given that higher speed means more heat. More heat is a negative factor in tire life.

I have no facts or studies to back that up. It is just my opinion. So if that opinion were correct, reported ST tire failures may be greater than other tire types because of speed.

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[SpletKay06]

Industry standered is to have a minum speed rating of 65mph but most st rated tires have an m or n speed rating which is 81 or 87 mph. My Carlisle radial hd tires do great at 75 mph I plan on upgrading the tires on my other trailer to them as well.

[jcanavera]

I went to a tire safety training program and we spent some time on speed ratings. The issue in many cases is the ability of the tire to dissipate heat and the ability of the tire to not degenerate and separate as it heats up. The flexing of the tire as it rotates naturally generates heat. The faster the rotation the higher the heat. Added to that, inflation pressure will also minimize the amount of flex as the tire touches to pavement and bears the weight. If you drive faster than the rating of the tire, you are rolling on a ticking time bomb. Again add to that the temperature of the pavement, the surrounding air and tire inflation.

Think about the fact that Airstream states that you can tow a tandem trailer with 3 tires. But note it is at a reduced speed. The reason is that a tire rotating more slowly can carry more weight due the fact that the tire is generating less rotational heat.

Jack

[HiHoAgRV]

Note the bottom line in the attached screen grab

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Even with the better tire 70 is too fast for towing a trailer.
Going 65 increases space in front of your vehicle therefore increasing reaction time and stopping distance.
These rigs don't stop on a dime even when in perfect mechanical repair.
Also, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph saves a lot of fuel.
I'll go slower if it gives my back pocket a break.
At the end of the day, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph doesn't change your day that much.
Even if driving 10 hours it will only add one hour to your day.
Who's driving 10 hours?
A shorter drive/shorter day only amounts to a few minutes going 65 rather than 70.
I would never say I'd rather not have a trailer of I have to go 65.
I tow at 60-65 mph all the time everywhere regardless if the speed limit is 70, 75, 80, or 85.
They can all go around me and admire my shiny silver trailer as they pass.

Whatever floats your boat friend. I was expressing my preferences and feelings towards the restrictive nature of the ST tires not attempting to convince you to change your ways.
As to safety with a 7,500 LBS Travel trailer on the road, I have 35 years of owning, driving and managing Semi Tractor trailers under my belt. So if you see me pulling around you at 70MPH on an open Interstate don't panic I know what I am doing.

[m.hony]

I still say with 1,000,000 miles under my belt that 65 mph is better for following distance, reaction time, and fuel savings.
You're grown and can do as you wish.
We don't have too many open interstates.
There are always cars around.
Cars with untrained, uneducated, possibly uninsured and unlicensed, and many just simply don't care.
I am not protecting myself against you.
I am protecting myself against them.
How many trailers have you seen with improper weight distribution and sway control zoom pass you whipping side to side all the way down the highway?
I've seen plenty of those.
My truck 'n' trailer, my choice-
Your truck 'n' trailer your choice-
Your 80,000# 18 wheeler by design may handle better in some ways than a pickup truck and travel trailer- purpose built- designed to handle 80,000#- designed to actually brake better under load-
Many over the road trucking companies have a self-imposed speed limit of 65 mph to increase following distance, increase reaction time, and save fuel.
I am more likely to see that deer in the road and slow or stop at 65 mph than at 75 mph.
I do understand that most people just simply don't want to hear it...
To each his own.

[Action]

>>>>>>>>>>>>Mod post<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

You have both stated your opinions more than once. Neither of you will are going to convince the other to change opinions. So please stop posting the same opinion over and over again because that will result in posts removed, thread closed and possible action that you will not care for.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[greghoro]

Originally Posted by Timberock

The TST TPMS that we use is factory set to 157 degrees. When traveling through the southwest and California last year we did observe temperatures in the 115-120 range with outside temps being 100-103 degrees. With the new tires and after hearing others share their feedback I have started to research where to set the temperature alarm to get an earlier warning.

When stating temperatures from your TPMS system, make sure you state whether the sensors are internally or externally mounted.

External TPMS sensors are out in the air stream and as such, will report a lower temperature than internally mounted sensors.

See the following article which discusses tire temperature monitoring and why TPMS temps are not accurate.


Greg

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Whatever floats your boat friend. I was expressing my preferences and feelings towards the restrictive nature of the ST tires not attempting to convince you to change your ways.
As to safety with a 7,500 LBS Travel trailer on the road, I have 35 years of owning, driving and managing Semi Tractor trailers under my belt. So if you see me pulling around you at 70MPH on an open Interstate don't panic I know what I am doing.

Well now I been driving big trucks pulling big trailers for 48 years , my own, and travel trailers since 1971, and I pull my 13 31' classic coast to coast at 63 mph, and I have no problems with any one passing me, my last KW with 4 axles pulling a 3 axle pup grossing 100000 lbs. had 1.4 million miles and the head has never been off...and I have seen quite a few in the ditch.....

[RAH]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I find 70 MPH a very comfortable and safe speed with an Airstream. If I have to drive 65 MPH or less I rather not own a trailer. I would go crazy being confined to driving 65 MPH or less. Had I not had the option to go to a better tire I would have sold the trailer.
Airstream factory installs 16" wheels and Michelins on their so called "Premium" trailers, Classic, Pendelton and Eddie Bauer which I find ironic because in comparison to other brands everything Airstream makes is premium priced. All their trailers should come with them from the factory and make the tire issue disappear from Airstreams.

I don't feel comfortable going 70 even when driving the truck with no trailer. With the trailer I am even slower, 60 or maybe 65 downhill. I must be old! Remember the old days when 55 was the speed limit, and 65 was speeding? I still feel that way, even with everyone passing me. And I mean everyone. School buses pass me. Oh well.