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Old 07-19-2016, 02:06 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Dexterpix View Post
You won't hear from the 100's of thousands of ST tires on the road that never failed. Just the ones that do. Think about all the rv, boat, utility, horse and other types of trailers out there with ST tires on them that never have a problem. The internet is a great place to give a small % of problems a BIG voice.
No doubt that there are many folks not having problems. My view is that ST tires have some narrow tolerances that certain towing conditions exploit. In my specific case it is the weight of my trailer and service life. The lighter your trailer is, the better chance you will have in getting your ST tires to the magic 5 year service life goal.

For others it is their locale and road temperatures/conditions. In other cases it is speed related, and for others it may be damage caused by hitting a curb in a tight turn. In some cases it ties to the amount of travel. Rolling tires, other than road hazard exposure, hold up better than tires that get infrequent use.

So many of us who champion LT tires as replacements are folks where our towing conditions/circumstances most likely exploit the limitations of ST tire construction and/or materials.

The fact that there is a goodly number of ST owners having no issues is a major reason why most manufacturer's of travel trailers continue to supply ST as the standard tire of choice. If the customer wants something that can stand up better for those exceptions that ST tires cannot reliably handle, then the LT is the better option.

Talking to the owner of my dealership was eye opening and he recognizes the limitations of the ST tires on the market today. He was quick to point out the heavy trailer issue is real and noted that some of the heavy 5th wheel trailers that he carries come equipped by the manufacturer with LT tires rather than ST tires.

Jack
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:51 PM   #58
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Owners choose their tires for many different reasons. Some blindly rely on a manufacture or dealer, some react to a personnel experience, and some because they know they are going to exceed the spec and want the additional capacity.

I run 16 in. Michelin LTs because I have had ST fail and because I can run as much as 700 miles per day at turnpike speeds. That decision was based on my needs and the research I have done as to what would meet my needs. I freely offer my experience to those that question what tire to use assuming they really want an answer.

If you have never noticed walk by the over the road tractors out there and note what they have on the steering axle. You will most likely quickly come to the conclusion there must be a reason. You will find any and all kinds of tires bringing up the rear but not on the steering axle. Could it be that they have discovered something that might keep them alive.
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:57 PM   #59
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Reacting to personal experience here...
My mind's made up...
No more ST tires for my hard earned money-
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Old 07-20-2016, 02:00 AM   #60
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The TST TPMS that we use is factory set to 157 degrees. When traveling through the southwest and California last year we did observe temperatures in the 115-120 range with outside temps being 100-103 degrees. With the new tires and after hearing others share their feedback I have started to research where to set the temperature alarm to get an earlier warning.

Typically an hour or two into a "driving day" my trusty wife (co-pilot) will watch a full cycle of the TMPS to ensure everything is operating as expected. Neither of us can remember a time in which there was more than +/- 2 PSI difference or tires that were not with 2-3 degrees of each other. The primary difference we noticed was the side of the trailer getting the most sun would be a little higher.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:10 AM   #61
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Sorry I don't have any pictures of the cracked Michelins I had them changed last week. The dealer told me this is not the first set they have changed.
The trailer does not sit for any long periods.
As for UV, all 4 tires were cracked the same hard to believe both sides would have equal sun exposure.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:05 AM   #62
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My first set of Michelin 15" LT tires developed surface cracking at 4 years age. All over all the tires. I changed them to the P235 15" XL tires are they are good with no signs of aging at 3 years. I expect I will keep running the Michelin tires and change them out every 4 years.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:26 AM   #63
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I have a set of 5 year old Bridgestone Duelers on my Tundra. One has sidewall cracking.
I have a 4 year old set of Firestone Destination LE on my Pathfinder. One has sidewall cracking.
I think the one tire that is cracking must have more exposure to the sun.
I would think with the tires being rotated I should have 2 with sidewall cracking.
Maybe that second tire with sidewall cracking is just around the corner.
At any rate, all will be replaced in 1-3 years due to age.
I never get to wear out the tread any more.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:16 AM   #64
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Amen....finally a sensible comment on ST's. I have run GYM's for over 15 years on an Overlander, one set for 13 years and many miles (not recommended) with only one flat with a nail in it. That set was made in Canada. My current set with about 2,000 miles on it was made in China. I don't like the fact that they were made in China because I try hard to buy USA made products but at the time they were all I could get. The other thing I am amazed by is folks running speeds as high as 80 mph and tire pressures ranging from 60 to 85 psi. I run my GYM's at 43 psi based on the Good Year pressure/load chart published on their web site. I get a fairly soft ride with no rivets rattling loose and I feel safer at speeds closer to 60mph. Some folks complain that ST's have a 65 mph speed limit. I think anyone who pulls a trailer faster than that is asking for trouble.
I find 70 MPH a very comfortable and safe speed with an Airstream. If I have to drive 65 MPH or less I rather not own a trailer. I would go crazy being confined to driving 65 MPH or less. Had I not had the option to go to a better tire I would have sold the trailer.
Airstream factory installs 16" wheels and Michelins on their so called "Premium" trailers, Classic, Pendelton and Eddie Bauer which I find ironic because in comparison to other brands everything Airstream makes is premium priced. All their trailers should come with them from the factory and make the tire issue disappear from Airstreams.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:58 AM   #65
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Even with the better tire 70 is too fast for towing a trailer.
Going 65 increases space in front of your vehicle therefore increasing reaction time and stopping distance.
These rigs don't stop on a dime even when in perfect mechanical repair.
Also, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph saves a lot of fuel.
I'll go slower if it gives my back pocket a break.
At the end of the day, going 65 mph vs. 70 mph doesn't change your day that much.
Even if driving 10 hours it will only add one hour to your day.
Who's driving 10 hours?
A shorter drive/shorter day only amounts to a few minutes going 65 rather than 70.
I would never say I'd rather not have a trailer of I have to go 65.
I tow at 60-65 mph all the time everywhere regardless if the speed limit is 70, 75, 80, or 85.
They can all go around me and admire my shiny silver trailer as they pass.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:12 AM   #66
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The argument that the reported failures are not representative is flawed, just as the position that quality costs money. If you were dropping babies in the delivery room in the numbers similar to the ST failure rate, the parents of the babies would think your behavior was significant.

There is no reason that a trailer tire on a travel trailer should be built to a different standard than the tire on the tow vehicle. None!

In our travels we see more and more tire tread on the road. It is not all commercial truck tire tread.

We all make the choices we feel are best for our circumstances. But no one should defend the quality of tires that fail. Establish the real root cause of the failure if at all possible. That improves the potential that at least we can make better informed choices.

It is entirely possible that the initial move to foreign manufacture produced flawed product and improvements in manufacturing have adequately addressed the issue. It is also possible that ST tires are not appropriate for a travel trailer.

Really appreciate the folks who post information and data. Thank you. Pat
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:27 AM   #67
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The argument that the reported failures are not representative is flawed,

So if I walk into a hospital and ask "who is sick in here?", won't the answer not be representative of the population in general?

This is an Internet forum. It attracts people with problems. People with no problems rarely if ever come into a forum and say "hey, I didn't have a problem".

So no, the argument is not flawed.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:17 AM   #68
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So if I walk into a hospital and ask "who is sick in here?", won't the answer not be representative of the population in general?

This is an Internet forum. It attracts people with problems. People with no problems rarely if ever come into a forum and say "hey, I didn't have a problem".

So no, the argument is not flawed.
Lots of people who are sick are not in the hospital. But each case of Ebola or any other illness is significant because of the impact on people. So, yes, your argument is flawed. One failure is representative to identify the root cause of that failure. Your not representative argument has no value unless you discount the need for quality, as defined by no failure in normal use, with ST tires. A single failure with a Michelin tire is just as representative. Your argument is flawed. Yes, it is an internet forum. However, unless the poster is a troll and is not truthful, their information about a failure is valid. It has value. Discounting the information has no value. Statistical validity as a concept can be used incorrectly. Quality and safety are examples that case. The Pinto gas tank, the Lexus acceleration, and ST tire failures were and are significant.

Thanks for the forum. Pat
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:17 AM   #69
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Likewise if the forum attracts folks with problems, it's interesting that the users of LT tires don't seem to flock here reporting failures. I think that with over 5 years + of user experiences of folks moving to LT tires, we've not seen any negative feedback other than typical road hazard situations which affect all tires. Obviously I think folks who have made the switch are getting positive results.

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Old 07-20-2016, 11:33 AM   #70
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And just to remind everyone, there is an Argue Thread if you really want to go crazy!











.
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http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html
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