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Old 06-22-2016, 02:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by HowieE View Post
Looks like I have been out opinioned 5 to 1. Maybe a picture will help. At 5 am they are hard to detect and luckily only did minor damage
For 10 years, my job was to look at tires that looked like that and determine - as best I could - what caused the failure.

I can tell you that I have seen many tires that look like that and the vast majority of them had a puncture of some sort. Note that the tread and belt package is more or less intact.

The failure mode that indicates an issue, with either the design or the quality level of the tire, would be a separation between the 2 belts, and the tread and top belt would detach more or less as a unit, leaving behind that bottom belt on the casing with the casing still inflated. Obviously running the tire after that occurs does tend to lead to punctures and loss of air, which complicates analyzing the situation.
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Old 06-22-2016, 02:58 PM   #58
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There are many people on this forum stating personal experience with Goodyear Marathon and other ST tires.
I kept my tires properly inflated, rotated, balanced, never hit a curb and still had 2 sets of ST tires come apart- one set of Goodyear Marathons and one set of Carlisle.
I'm sure everyone else who has experienced tread separation on ST tires did the right thing as best they could.
I am convinced that ST tires are an inferior product and have a maximum life of 3 years at best.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
Everyone can by whatever tires they choose.
There are too many testimonies of the exact same experience to discount it.
I have lived it- twice.
No more ST tires for my money.
I have P-metric tires on my golf cart trailer and LT tires on my camper.


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Old 06-23-2016, 12:02 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Wondering... When you go down hill do you also run your engine 10% above the Redliine?
Come on Tireman, we all know you are the self proclaimed tire expert. But this comparison, really, kind of rediculious.

We also know Industry standards dictate that ST tires are restricted to a speed of 65 mph unless a different speed restriction is indicated on the tire sidewall. But, today's ST tires by Goodyear, Carlisle and Maxxis are all produced with higher speed ratings. Maxxis M8008s, for example, are "Q" tires. 99 MPH. There are written instructions by most tire companies on what to do if you want to operate above 65 mph. So, no ST problem here, but that's just me.
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Old 06-23-2016, 04:26 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Howard L. View Post
Come on Tireman, we all know you are the self proclaimed tire expert. But this comparison, really, kind of rediculious.

We also know Industry standards dictate that ST tires are restricted to a speed of 65 mph unless a different speed restriction is indicated on the tire sidewall. But, today's ST tires by Goodyear, Carlisle and Maxxis are all produced with higher speed ratings. Maxxis M8008s, for example, are "Q" tires. 99 MPH. There are written instructions by most tire companies on what to do if you want to operate above 65 mph. So, no ST problem here, but that's just me.
Ive never seen a trailer tire with a Q speed rating. But my trailer tires have an N speed rating which is 81 mph.
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Old 06-23-2016, 04:40 AM   #61
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Lately, there have been some OEM ST tires mounted on some Salem trailers that have "Maximum Speed 75MPH" stamped in them.
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:19 AM   #62
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Well said.

They are produced because it is cheep to produce in China and cheep to buy in in Ohio. A larger percentage of RV consumers have no idea what they got and when it fails why. They mostly replace with the same and move on.
It is shameful that Airstream continues to install these substandard tires on their obseenley expensive Trailers. It is even more shameful that they install them on the so called premium Trailers creating a class distinction where a $ 80,000 30' Flying Cloud is a cheapo model next to the $ 114,000 Classic.
What are we talking about here, an additional $ 800.00 per unit for 16" wheels and Michelin tires on all trailers.
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Old 06-23-2016, 10:47 AM   #63
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They are produced because it is cheep to produce in China and cheep to buy in in Ohio. A larger percentage of RV consumers have no idea what they got and when it fails why. They mostly replace with the same and move on.
It is shameful that Airstream continues to install these substandard tires on their obseenley expensive Trailers. It is even more shameful that they install them on the so called premium Trailers creating a class distinction where a $ 80,000 30' Flying Cloud is a cheapo model next to the $ 114,000 Classic.
What are we talking about here, an additional $ 800.00 per unit for 16" wheels and Michelin tires on all trailers.
Correction ... the tires are not sub-standard otherwise the feds would not allow them to be on the highway for as long as they have been selling. (And they do get complaints about tires and everything else. So they investigate) They may be below YOUR standard and that isn't what rules the road. So based on tire events, the tire in question is acceptable on the road untill new events say otherwise. There are millions of those so the standard must be working on some level.

Granted they are low end tires. And AS installs them because YOU buy them. If the informed consumer were to refuse to take delivery of an AS trailer with ANY feature AS will change features.They have in the past and will do so in the future to sell product.

However the un-informed consumer buys as well and that consumer is many times price sensitive. Low end tires may require greater attention to road speed limits, road hazards, fill pressures and general inspections that a high end ties does not need. I have had many low end products that lasted as long or longer than high end products because of how I use the product.

If you don't want low end tires don't buy them. When you are buying a trailer of any type and it has low end tires that you don't want discount the purchase price! Or refuse to take delivery. However making blanket statements about a product just ignores the fact that the market place IS buying until that mind set changes. And that mind set has been around longer than you or I have been alive.

I forget the auto exec that stated some decades ago about tires on a new vehicle line....... As long as they were round, black and cheap he was good. And the first two features are optional.

So until the buying public changes their mind about 65 MPH rated ST tires and low end products, the vote is made with dollars. Cast your vote the way you post. Making blanket statements just comes down to being un-informed about the market place and in this case about federal standards.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 06-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #64
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RE Speed Ratings and operation speed.

My comparison to engine redline seems to me to be the easiest for many to understand. It is possible to run an engine right at redline or even above for a short time but I can't find anyone that advocates operation an engine at the rated max speed for any significant time or distance.

High Speed test is not a DOT regulatory test but is a test based on Society of Automotive Engineers testing. To be marked with a speed symbol a new tire needs to run for 30 minutes on a smooth drum at the stated speed.
There is no requirement for a tire to be "conditioned" with a few thousand miles at lower speed over potholes and up on curbs or with 110% of the rated load or for the tire to be able to pass DOT regulatory durability tests after running the SAE High Speed test.

Yes, an increasing number of ST type tires now come with a speed symbol molded on the sidewall. The primary reason for this seems to be to avoid import duties. What many want to ignore is the fundamental truth that the load capacity of ST tires is much higher than an LT type tire based on the premise from 1970 that the ST tire would be on a single axle trailer that was limited to 50 mph operation speed.

Molding the letters "ST" on a tire is not magic. Physics still applies. If people want to drive at 75 or 80 while towing as they would with their LT type tires and not have failures then I suggest they pay attention to the Physics and limit the actual tire load as if it were an LT type. This is easy to do.

First simply look for an LT type tire with the same dimensions i.e. ST235/75R15 > LT235/75R15 in the Load tables and limit their measured load to the number found in the LT tables.

If you do that you will probably see a significant reduction in tire failures. Of course this also means you are not in the 50+% of RV owners that operate your tires under-inflated.

If you ignore the Facts and Physics of reality you will have to live with the consequences no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:46 AM   #65
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Correction ... the tires are not sub-standard otherwise NTSB and DOT would not allow them to be on the highway for as long as they have been selling. They may be below YOUR standard and that isn't what rules the road. So based on tire events the tire in question is acceptable on the road untill new events say otherwise. There are millions of those so the standard must be working on some level.

They are low end tires. And AS installs them becuse YOU buy them. If the informed consumer were to refuse to take delivery of an AS trailer with ANY feature AS will change features.They have in the past and will do so in the future to sell product.

However the un-informed consumer buys as well and that consumer is many times price sensitive. Low end tires may require greater attention to road speed limits, road hazards, fill pressures and general inspections that a high end ties does not need. I have had many low end products that lasted as long or longer than high end products because of how I use the product.

If you don't want low end tires don't buy them. When you are buying a trailer of any type and it has low end tires that you don't want discount the purchase price! Or refuse to take delivery. However making blanket statements about a product just ignores the fact that the market place IS buying until that mind set changes. And that mind set has been around longer than you or I have been alive.

I forget the auto exec that stated some decades ago about tires on a new vehicle line. As long as they were round, black and cheap he was good.

So until the buying public changes their mind about 65 MPH rated ST tires and low end products, the vote is made with dollars. Cast your vote the way you post. Making blanket statements just comes down to being un-informed about the market place and in this case about federal standards.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

You are no serious are you. You are suggesting that the average customer read the Federal Tire Regulations before purchasing an Airstream or any other travel trailer ? The last thing I would rely on for information is a Federal Regulation. They are never updated or revised to keep up with the advancement in technologies and guaranteed to be written in a large part by lobbyist.
To ask close to hundred grand for a travel trailer, promoting it as the cream ala cream of all travel trailers, beautiful aluminium creation and than put a set of tires on it requiring extraordinary care, prone to failure while there are excellent alternatives eliminating all that, is like dressing up in a tuxedo top hat and putting on a pair of 10 dollar white sneakers.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:50 AM   #66
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:59 AM   #67
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You are no serious are you. You are suggesting that the average customer read the Federal Tire Regulations before purchasing an Airstream or any other travel trailer ? The last thing I would rely on for information is a Federal Regulation. They are never updated or revised to keep up with the advancement in technologies and guaranteed to be written in a large part by lobbyist.
To ask close to hundred grand for a travel trailer, promoting it as the cream ala cream of all travel trailers, beautiful aluminium creation and than put a set of tires on it requiring extraordinary care, prone to failure while there are excellent alternatives eliminating all that, is like dressing up in a tuxedo top hat and putting on a pair of 10 dollar white sneakers.

Nope don't have to read the Fed Register but maybe doing a review of this and other RV forums might be in order.
Another ting that might be in order would be for every AS owner to file an actionable complaint with NHTSA when they have a failure.
"Actionable" means including tire DOT, and cold inflation pressure along with measured load.
Then when you get the complaint number back from NHTSA send that to AS CEO Bob Wheeler. I bet he has never received such information.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:33 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
Nope don't have to read the Fed Register but maybe doing a review of this and other RV forums might be in order.
Another ting that might be in order would be for every AS owner to file an actionable complaint with NHTSA when they have a failure.
"Actionable" means including tire DOT, and cold inflation pressure along with measured load.
Then when you get the complaint number back from NHTSA send that to AS CEO Bob Wheeler. I bet he has never received such information.

The best suggestion of this thread so far.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:45 AM   #69
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You don't have to buy one.
Agreed, and here is the age old conundrum of truth in advertising and buyer beware. I assumed, reading all the promotional put out by Airstream and the prices they were asking in comparison with other brands, that I am getting the best Trailer on the market in all aspects. When I bought my BMW 540 it came paired with the best high speed Continental Tires to match its performance.
At one of the rallies we attended, a newbie asked the Airstream rep what speed were the Airstream Trailers built for, the rep responded that they can be safely driven at all legally posted speed limits in the US.
He should have added a qualifier: Unless they are Equipped With GYM tires.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:55 AM   #70
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