Goodyear Marathon, + 10psi to run 66-75 MPH?

[overlander63]

Lately, there have been some OEM ST tires mounted on some Salem trailers that have "Maximum Speed 75MPH" stamped in them.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by mrprez

Well said.

They are produced because it is cheep to produce in China and cheep to buy in in Ohio. A larger percentage of RV consumers have no idea what they got and when it fails why. They mostly replace with the same and move on.
It is shameful that Airstream continues to install these substandard tires on their obseenley expensive Trailers. It is even more shameful that they install them on the so called premium Trailers creating a class distinction where a $ 80,000 30' Flying Cloud is a cheapo model next to the $ 114,000 Classic.
What are we talking about here, an additional $ 800.00 per unit for 16" wheels and Michelin tires on all trailers.

[Action]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

They are produced because it is cheep to produce in China and cheep to buy in in Ohio. A larger percentage of RV consumers have no idea what they got and when it fails why. They mostly replace with the same and move on.
It is shameful that Airstream continues to install these substandard tires on their obseenley expensive Trailers. It is even more shameful that they install them on the so called premium Trailers creating a class distinction where a $ 80,000 30' Flying Cloud is a cheapo model next to the $ 114,000 Classic.
What are we talking about here, an additional $ 800.00 per unit for 16" wheels and Michelin tires on all trailers.

Correction ... the tires are not sub-standard otherwise the feds would not allow them to be on the highway for as long as they have been selling. (And they do get complaints about tires and everything else. So they investigate) They may be below YOUR standard and that isn't what rules the road. So based on tire events, the tire in question is acceptable on the road untill new events say otherwise. There are millions of those so the standard must be working on some level.

Granted they are low end tires. And AS installs them because YOU buy them. If the informed consumer were to refuse to take delivery of an AS trailer with ANY feature AS will change features.They have in the past and will do so in the future to sell product.

However the un-informed consumer buys as well and that consumer is many times price sensitive. Low end tires may require greater attention to road speed limits, road hazards, fill pressures and general inspections that a high end ties does not need. I have had many low end products that lasted as long or longer than high end products because of how I use the product.

If you don't want low end tires don't buy them. When you are buying a trailer of any type and it has low end tires that you don't want discount the purchase price! Or refuse to take delivery. However making blanket statements about a product just ignores the fact that the market place IS buying until that mind set changes. And that mind set has been around longer than you or I have been alive.

I forget the auto exec that stated some decades ago about tires on a new vehicle line....... As long as they were round, black and cheap he was good. And the first two features are optional.

So until the buying public changes their mind about 65 MPH rated ST tires and low end products, the vote is made with dollars. Cast your vote the way you post. Making blanket statements just comes down to being un-informed about the market place and in this case about federal standards.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Tireman9]

RE Speed Ratings and operation speed.

My comparison to engine redline seems to me to be the easiest for many to understand. It is possible to run an engine right at redline or even above for a short time but I can't find anyone that advocates operation an engine at the rated max speed for any significant time or distance.

High Speed test is not a DOT regulatory test but is a test based on Society of Automotive Engineers testing. To be marked with a speed symbol a new tire needs to run for 30 minutes on a smooth drum at the stated speed.
There is no requirement for a tire to be "conditioned" with a few thousand miles at lower speed over potholes and up on curbs or with 110% of the rated load or for the tire to be able to pass DOT regulatory durability tests after running the SAE High Speed test.

Yes, an increasing number of ST type tires now come with a speed symbol molded on the sidewall. The primary reason for this seems to be to avoid import duties. What many want to ignore is the fundamental truth that the load capacity of ST tires is much higher than an LT type tire based on the premise from 1970 that the ST tire would be on a single axle trailer that was limited to 50 mph operation speed.

Molding the letters "ST" on a tire is not magic. Physics still applies. If people want to drive at 75 or 80 while towing as they would with their LT type tires and not have failures then I suggest they pay attention to the Physics and limit the actual tire load as if it were an LT type. This is easy to do.

First simply look for an LT type tire with the same dimensions i.e. ST235/75R15 > LT235/75R15 in the Load tables and limit their measured load to the number found in the LT tables.

If you do that you will probably see a significant reduction in tire failures. Of course this also means you are not in the 50+% of RV owners that operate your tires under-inflated.

If you ignore the Facts and Physics of reality you will have to live with the consequences no matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Action

Correction ... the tires are not sub-standard otherwise NTSB and DOT would not allow them to be on the highway for as long as they have been selling. They may be below YOUR standard and that isn't what rules the road. So based on tire events the tire in question is acceptable on the road untill new events say otherwise. There are millions of those so the standard must be working on some level.

They are low end tires. And AS installs them becuse YOU buy them. If the informed consumer were to refuse to take delivery of an AS trailer with ANY feature AS will change features.They have in the past and will do so in the future to sell product.

However the un-informed consumer buys as well and that consumer is many times price sensitive. Low end tires may require greater attention to road speed limits, road hazards, fill pressures and general inspections that a high end ties does not need. I have had many low end products that lasted as long or longer than high end products because of how I use the product.

If you don't want low end tires don't buy them. When you are buying a trailer of any type and it has low end tires that you don't want discount the purchase price! Or refuse to take delivery. However making blanket statements about a product just ignores the fact that the market place IS buying until that mind set changes. And that mind set has been around longer than you or I have been alive.

I forget the auto exec that stated some decades ago about tires on a new vehicle line. As long as they were round, black and cheap he was good.

So until the buying public changes their mind about 65 MPH rated ST tires and low end products, the vote is made with dollars. Cast your vote the way you post. Making blanket statements just comes down to being un-informed about the market place and in this case about federal standards.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

You are no serious are you. You are suggesting that the average customer read the Federal Tire Regulations before purchasing an Airstream or any other travel trailer ? The last thing I would rely on for information is a Federal Regulation. They are never updated or revised to keep up with the advancement in technologies and guaranteed to be written in a large part by lobbyist.
To ask close to hundred grand for a travel trailer, promoting it as the cream ala cream of all travel trailers, beautiful aluminium creation and than put a set of tires on it requiring extraordinary care, prone to failure while there are excellent alternatives eliminating all that, is like dressing up in a tuxedo top hat and putting on a pair of 10 dollar white sneakers.

[xrvr]

You don't have to buy one.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

You are no serious are you. You are suggesting that the average customer read the Federal Tire Regulations before purchasing an Airstream or any other travel trailer ? The last thing I would rely on for information is a Federal Regulation. They are never updated or revised to keep up with the advancement in technologies and guaranteed to be written in a large part by lobbyist.
To ask close to hundred grand for a travel trailer, promoting it as the cream ala cream of all travel trailers, beautiful aluminium creation and than put a set of tires on it requiring extraordinary care, prone to failure while there are excellent alternatives eliminating all that, is like dressing up in a tuxedo top hat and putting on a pair of 10 dollar white sneakers.

Nope don't have to read the Fed Register but maybe doing a review of this and other RV forums might be in order.
Another ting that might be in order would be for every AS owner to file an actionable complaint with NHTSA when they have a failure.
"Actionable" means including tire DOT, and cold inflation pressure along with measured load.
Then when you get the complaint number back from NHTSA send that to AS CEO Bob Wheeler. I bet he has never received such information.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Nope don't have to read the Fed Register but maybe doing a review of this and other RV forums might be in order.
Another ting that might be in order would be for every AS owner to file an actionable complaint with NHTSA when they have a failure.
"Actionable" means including tire DOT, and cold inflation pressure along with measured load.
Then when you get the complaint number back from NHTSA send that to AS CEO Bob Wheeler. I bet he has never received such information.

The best suggestion of this thread so far.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by avionstream

You don't have to buy one.

Agreed, and here is the age old conundrum of truth in advertising and buyer beware. I assumed, reading all the promotional put out by Airstream and the prices they were asking in comparison with other brands, that I am getting the best Trailer on the market in all aspects. When I bought my BMW 540 it came paired with the best high speed Continental Tires to match its performance.
At one of the rallies we attended, a newbie asked the Airstream rep what speed were the Airstream Trailers built for, the rep responded that they can be safely driven at all legally posted speed limits in the US.
He should have added a qualifier: Unless they are Equipped With GYM tires.

[xrvr]

You are getting the best trailer.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Agreed, and here is the age old conundrum of truth in advertising and buyer beware. I assumed, reading all the promotional put out by Airstream and the prices they were asking in comparison with other brands, that I am getting the best Trailer on the market in all aspects. When I bought my BMW 540 it came paired with the best high speed Continental Tires to match its performance.
At one of the rallies we attended, a newbie asked the Airstream rep what speed were the Airstream Trailers built for, the rep responded that they can be safely driven at all legally posted speed limits in the US.
He should have added a qualifier: Unless they are Equipped With GYM tires.

Clearly the "rep" doesn't know his product. Maybe he/she was really just another "order-taker" who's primary gol was to make a sale by touting all the shine and "bling" and wasn't interested in talking about the safety features or lack thereof.

Wonder if AS conducts emergency stop tests from 80 mph with their various units to ensure the trailer stops a bit faster than the TV? If it doesn't or can't then the TT will probably swap ends with the TV. If not then what is the claim of "safely driven" based on?

[aftermath]

Quite a few years ago I was reading another forum about tow vehicles. In this I noticed a lot of stories of Fords with all sorts of issues. There were a few others of course, like GM and Dodge but I was struck by the sheer number of failures pertaining to Ford 150s and 250s. My reaction was to paint Fords as below standards and to never purchase one. Later, it came to my attention that there are way more Fords on the road than any of the others when comparing brands one to one. Since there are more of these trucks out there it makes sense that there will be more complaints. The percentage of complaints would be nice to know.

I believe that there are way more GYMs on trailers than any other ST brands. More tires will mean more failures. The question is at what percentage are these tires failing? Someone bring that data to the table and we should all listen a little closer.

My take on all of this remains the same. Given a tire, even a low end tire as someone has labeled the GYM, if you abuse it your chances of failure go up. I know many many individuals who just get in and drive. Those who carefully maintain their vehicles get many more miles out of them and their systems and parts. Trailer tires fall into this main concept. Inflate them, inspect them, rotate them and drive them within their limitations and you shouldn't have problems. If there are 50K GYM on the road and 10K Maxxis, you should expect 5 times as many failures. Think about that.

[m.hony]

ST tires may be approved by government regulatory agencies.
They still have a 3 year life.
When I had tread separations, documenting the event for a government agency was not my focus.
Getting new tires and going camping was my focus.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by m.hony

ST tires may be approved by government regulatory agencies.
They still have a 3 year life.
When I had tread separations, documenting the event for a government agency was not my focus.
Getting new tires and going camping was my focus.
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

First off, there is no government agency that is "approving" tires. The DOT does publish performance regulations that the tire company is "certifying" all the tires they make are capable of passing the requirements. If a tire company wants to game the system and make tires that do not meet the regulations there is no way for the DOT to learn this unless they conduct an investigation. The DOT will not start an investigation without justification or they could be accused of wasting taxpayer money. A major part of that justification is the number of complaints on file.

Sending a complaint to NHTSA not being your focus is clearly understandable. But if you never bothered to record the S/N of your tires and simply disposed of them then you will never be able to file an actionable complaint.
No actionable complaining = No Investigation = No findings of low quality = no recall = no improvement in quality of ST tires.

IMO there are some in the business of low cost tire production and sales who know the average RV owner will never complain. They are playing the odds that there will never be a recall so with no future penalty there is no incentive to improve quality.
Even if you can't focus on filing a complaint at the time you certainly could in the future but that would mean you had made the minimal effort to record the S/N for your tires.

If RV owners can't make that minimal effort of recording the S/N and spend the I simply do not understand why they feel they can take the moral high ground and complain about poor tire life.
Filing a complaint only takes a couple of minutes. Maybe less time than what many are willing to spend complaining on as RV forum.

[m.hony]

No serial numbers-
Just got rid of them-
There will be no more ST tires on any trailer I own- so no chance to record serial numbers-
At this point it matters not to me if quality of ST tires ever improves. I will never use them. I will never pay my hard earned money for them.
Y'all handle it...

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by m.hony

No serial numbers-
Just got rid of them-
There will be no more ST tires on any trailer I own- so no chance to record serial numbers-
At this point it matters not to me if quality of ST tires ever improves. I will never use them. I will never pay my hard earned money for them.
Y'all handle it...

Your choice. Does that mean you won't bother to record the S/N of the new tires you put on the RV? or did you buy the "magic", never fail, never have a recall tires?

[m.hony]

I still have the tires...
I really don't anticipate any premature, short life tread separations on LT or P-metric tires.
The only tire failures I have ever had were on ST tires less than 3 years old or other tires that were aged out- who knows how old they were when they blew out?
I usually replace tires when the sidewalls start to show cracks from dry rot.
That is generally 5-6 years.
I never get the tread life out of any tire.
They dry rot first.
Never felt the need to file a complaint.
Never thought it would do any good anyway.
The short life of ST tires is common knowledge it seems.
I don't trust or expect the government agencies to anything right.
It is up to me to use what I know to buy the best tires I can.
Tales from forums users were all anecdotal until it happened to me on 2 different occasions on 2 different trailers.
Now I have all those anecdotes and personal experience to base my decision on.
That's good enough for me.
It's your choice to put whatever tires you choose on your trailer.
I ain't mad at ya.

[Action]

Originally Posted by m.hony

I really don't anticipate any premature, short life tread separations on LT or P-metric tires.

No one anticipates a tire failure. And yet tires fail. Not just ST tires either. There have been recalls of all kinds of tires. Keeping track of the tires is just another piece of maintenance. (Or not as many don't maintain what they have)

I guess my point is .... if you want premium service life out of something don't expect it out of an economy product.

And Yes Fanklyfrank I am serious. Buying a premium travel trailer with economy tires, ultimately it is the buyer that is responsible for the decision. A great salesperson will get to know the buyer and know the buyer's needs and then sell the right product, for the right price at the right time. There are few great sales people in the world so it comes down to the consumer knowing what they are buying. Because my experience has been most sellers don't know what they are selling. So I have to be both the seller and the buyer in many cases.

And since when is it acceptable to make a tens of thousands of dollar decision un-informed? Is it OK to do that, sure. Is it prudent to not know about the details of that kind of decision? Not in my opinion. However I go into transactions informed as much as possible. Asking about (or doing my own inspection on the) tires (a major replaceable and safety feature) seems like a no brainer.

Airstream and any other manufacturer is going to sell what people buy. When the consumer stops buying or expresses an objection repeatedly the manufacturer usually changes or closes. And of course some people buy a travel trailer and don't travel much. Or don't travel fast. Why have an expensive tire for not much traveling?

>>>>>>>>>>>Action.

[m.hony]

Maybe I should have said that based upon personal experience up to this point, 2 incidents of ST tire tread separation on 2 different trailers and never having that type of failure on LT or P-metric tires...