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markdoane · 10-14-2008, 07:21 AM

If the nitrogen molecule is larger, wouldn't nitrogen tend to collect nearest the earth's surface due to it's higher molecular weight?

Then people that live up on the mountain top would be breathing more oxygen than those down in the valley.

CanoeStream · 10-14-2008, 07:24 AM

Terry, that makes sense.

Air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, .9% argon, .033% CO2 and other makeup really drops off after that. Oxygen is only slightly heavier than nitrogen; molecule size size is a much more complex issue but I'll bet on not much difference. Everybody sing now -- Nitrogen makes the cha-ching go around...

Inland RV Center, In · 10-14-2008, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanoeStream

Terry, that makes sense.

Air is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, .9% argon, .033% CO2 and other makeup really drops off after that. Oxygen is only slightly heavier than nitrogen; molecule size size is a much more complex issue but I'll bet on not much difference. Everybody sing now -- Nitrogen makes the cha-ching go around...

Four times around on a tandem trailer.

Andy

jimmini · 10-14-2008, 01:03 PM

On 31 Mar 1986 a Mexicana Airlines Boeing 727-200 crashed killing 166 passengers and crew.It was determined the aircraft crashed due to a blowout of one of the tires.The tire had ruptured fuel,hydraulic and electrical lines in the wheel well.

In Jun 1987 the FAA issued an Airworthiness Directive requiring large aircraft that had tires on wheels with brakes installed to be seviced with less than 5% oxygen by volume thus nitrogen-which will suppress any fire caused by overheated brakes that cause the tire pressure to increase untill the tire or wheel failes.
Since useing nitrogen the airlines found .
(1) More consistent tire pressures ( Tire pressures are checked daily)
(2) Reduced corrsion to allow wheels.
(3) Prevented iner liner rubber deterioration due to oxidation.
(4) Tires run cooler
(5) No moister to freeze at high altitude.

I do use nitrogen in ALL my tires.

I think it has become a green thing.(In europe I hear they use green valve caps on nitrogen filled tires)Some say with nitrogen tire inflation improvement can be noted in vehical handling with better steering,braking and reduced chance of blowouts,fuel savings and better tire life through better tire pressure retention and cooler running tires.Here in the HOT Southwest heat takes it tole on tires so cooler running tires are

.

**Action** · 10-14-2008, 01:26 PM

It is great that the FAA regulates air content of tires used in aircraft that have landing and take off speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour.

However my bullit only sees the north side of 65 mph on a good day. I consider the nitro green thing an added pain that I choose out of. Costco offers the service and does put the green caps on the valve stems. However, when I go to the great out doors I have discovered a spanish phrase from locals in the South West .......

"We don't need no stinkin' green caps!"

Couple that to the lack of moisture around here (usually less than 10% relative humidity) in the air I breathe which gives my sinuses a fit. However that is a story for another thread.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

Ahab · 10-15-2008, 09:25 AM

Jimmini, I'd be willing to bet you have those magnet gizzies on your fuel line too!

pmclemore · 10-15-2008, 09:09 PM

When I bought new tires from Costco they gave me green valve caps, no charge.

Pat

ROBERTSUNRUS · 10-15-2008, 10:50 PM

Hi, I'm still waiting for the little cans of nitrogen [16 oz.] to top off my tires while on the road so I don't mix nitrogen with ordinary air. Everytime you check your tires with a pressure guage you will lose a little bit of air/pressure and will need to refill it somehow. My vender couldn't answer that question; What do we do while on the road? Why don't they make "Run Flat" ST tires?

Silvertwinkie · 10-16-2008, 07:20 AM

Nitrogen in your tires is simply a cash cow, gravy money maker. As has been pointed out, normal air has significant content of nitrogen. Yes the molecules of Nitrogen are larger and escape less out of porous type materials like rubber tires, but the reality is that a good compressor with an in line air dryer (air dryers can be bought starting at about $20), will remove a good deal of moisture from what you put into the tires.

If they run cooler or not I don't know, but if you recall, tires have been around for many decades.

They were designed and built knowing the average Joe would put in air from an air hose. The costs IMHO, vs the benefits are near nill. That is not to say there might not be some benefits, but they are very small. Now if the cost was the equiv of going to the local gas station pump and dropping in a quarter or two, sure, it'd be worth it, but for tandem axles trailers you are talking $40. Tri-axle trailers $60. Take that money, buy yourself an air line dryer for your compressor and save the rest of that money for LP or gasoline. Nitrogen is simply an add on profit generator for a business trying to capture every cent they can out of the folks they come into contact with..... If you've been to a car dealership, you no doubt have seen the flashy brochures they have touting all the benefits of putting nitrogen from their dealership into your tires. These are right next to the oil comparison and extended warranty brochures. Add ons, gotta love 'em.

overlander63 · 10-16-2008, 08:11 AM

Whether or not it helps, it at least does no harm. I, and I am sure most of you, have seen the "snake oil" stuff over the years that's supposed to perform all sorts of miracles. If they all worked as claimed, and I used all of them, my fuel tank would overflow constantly, and I'd have to find somebody to buy the excess...

Ray Eklund · 10-16-2008, 06:30 PM

I get many more AM and FM stations on my trailer radio since I have put Nitrogen in my tow vehicle's new Costco tires! I also took the 12 inch antenna off the trailer and put a 30" whip in its place. There must be a correlation in there somewhere. Science is an imperfect reality...

I have had a set of Goodrich tires installed by Costco in 2006 and did note that I had never needed to add Nitrogen once the tires were installed and checked by myself. Maybe a better tire to rim seal...? so installation could be a factor with gradual air pressure losses.

The Toyota factory Goodrich 18" A/T tires (load range C, Passenger rated Mud/Snows) that came with the 2008 Tundra were replaced today at 16,000 miles with E rated Michelins. The tires were about 40% worn, but in three days in the Silver City, New Mexico area I had two rock punctures on the dirt/gravel/boulder county road out of Mimbres. Not unexpected, but this was not towing the trailer, but "normal" driving conditions. One tire was repaired with a patch and usable. The other tire was patched, but could only be used as a spare as the tread cords were damaged. I did notice the majority of traffic were using Goodrich A/T load range D tires, as well...

I will do some air pressure tests from cold pressure to hot tire pressure and report back to see what range(s) are to be found. I am using a digital gauge, so I expect the results to be within a small error range, if any. I did notice today that Costco used digital pressure gauges and the nitrogen system is preset to a pressure required when they air up the tires and the tech checks to see if anythings needs to be added or released.

I am used to getting 45,000 miles out of a set of Michelins on the 1994 Land Cruisers on the highway/dirt/gravel roads not towing, not 16,000. Tires are NO LONGER an inexpensive assessory, I must add! As to the Toyota Tundra commercials, they must not be using the factory installed tires hauling those loads, as well.

jimmini · 10-16-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahab

Jimmini, I'd be willing to bet you have those magnet gizzies on your fuel line too!

No.
But after 54 year as a A&P Flight Mechanic on every thing from C-46s to B-747s. I have seen the damge tire blow out can do to aircraft.I have also seen what tire blow outs have done to many Airstreams. So I have chosen to try and cut down my chance for tire failer by useing good quality tires serviced with nitrogen.It is not 100% fool proof on aircraft and it is not 100% fool proof for cars or trailer.But since it cost me nothing at Costco to use it ,I will use it.

"The good lessons come hard and cost dear"

ROBERTSUNRUS · 10-16-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlander63

Whether or not it helps, it at least does no harm. I, and I am sure most of you, have seen the "snake oil" stuff over the years that's supposed to perform all sorts of miracles. If they all worked as claimed, and I used all of them, my fuel tank would overflow constantly, and I'd have to find somebody to buy the excess...

Hi, in my first years as a mechanic, [about 40 years ago] old man Loyyd told me, "When they put a mechanic in a can, we will all be out of a job." Well, I retired before that happened and we still have mechanics.

Journalist · 10-16-2008, 10:35 PM

One of these days, I'm going to sit down and figure out how long I can run my air compressor for the $10 it costs to fill one tire with nitrogen. I'm willing to bet I can air up a lot of tires for that price.

Aage · 10-16-2008, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Clark

I mean, you GOTTA hate it when that happens...!

jimmini · 10-17-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aage

I mean, you GOTTA hate it when that happens...!

Nitrogen is a non-flammable and non-corrosive gas.

SteveH · 10-17-2008, 05:27 AM

Why don't we all go to the novelty shop to fill our tires....you know, the place that sells the balloons filled with helium? That way, it'd be cheaper than nitrogen, our trailers would weigh less, and we'd get better fuel mileage...........

overlander63 · 10-17-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Why don't we all go to the novelty shop to fill our tires....you know, the place that sells the balloons filled with helium? That way, it'd be cheaper than nitrogen, our trailers would weigh less, and we'd get better fuel mileage...........

...And if one started to leak at a rally, we could all add to the fun by inhaling and talking funny...

Journalist · 10-22-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Why don't we all go to the novelty shop to fill our tires....you know, the place that sells the balloons filled with helium? That way, it'd be cheaper than nitrogen, our trailers would weigh less, and we'd get better fuel mileage...........

Why not just fill the trailer with helium and then take the tires off? No rolling resistance for the ultimate fuel economy!!!

markdoane · 10-23-2008, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journalist

Why not just fill the trailer with helium and then take the tires off?

Don't try that!

When I did it, the trailer windmilled like crazy, and I couldn't keep it on the road. I think the tongue weight was too low. Also, with the tires off the trailer had no directional stability.

When I got to the campground, I had to park under a large tree to keep the trailer from floating away.

And my gas mileage didn't really improve that much. Overall, a less than optimal experience.