Endurance Tire pressure on 27FB Int'l

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jadatis

"For trailer use only " Tyres in Europe have speedcode N and only 2 Loadindex steps higher then same sise and loadrange ( called Plyrating in Europe) C-tyre wich is european name for LT. That is where I got the rule of tumb 1 LI for every 10 kmph/6.3mph concluded from , so They are calculated in maxload for 140kmph/87mph and so referencespeed is maximum speed.


For Tempo 100 sticker, in Germany, so you may drive 100kmph/62mph, the tires need to be not older then 6 years.
Also some insurances insist on that not older then 6 years.
Many travel-trailers ( called caravans in Europe) have their tires more then 6 years, and pressure advice is on fora determined with my made spreadsheet often. But also in Europe the general rule of using Maximum pressure( in fact reference-pressure) is often given.
So this proves that if you give the tire a defllection that gives zero chanche on overheating , the tires last yust as long as C/LT- tires.
Michelin gives advice to let the tires be checked every year after 6 years, and in any case renew them after 10 years.


And also this topic showed already lifetime of 6 years, but still wayting for more reactions about it.
This is , so I concluded, because , even if you lower the loadindex by 6 , the tires still have a comfortable resereve .
Airstream is in this, an exeption to the rule, with tires that have comfortable reserve and giving reference-pressure of mostly 65 psi as advice.


But disatvantage of this , having to replace some rivets after every trip, pups up here.
Savety of tires so not once overheating in its livetime, is the most important. But enaugh is enaugh, and having to replace rivits should not be needed, so also important.

Tire life- 6 years?? I guess your asserting that things are different in Europe for trailer tires?? I know that life of a tire depends on more then just PSI and speed; there is terrain, highway, gravel road use, weather/sun exposure, etc. which will affect a tire both in tread wear and material wear..ask anyone who has drives back roads to boondock over the years or has taken a trip to Alaska. And yes, overinflating does cause more than popped rivets..if you read many of us have had other issues such as broken hinges, cabinets pulling loose, drawers coming off the guides, etc...many times from inflating to the "Max Pressure"....think the Mfg. PSI for given weight on the TT recommendation is good enough for me.

[jadatis]

To be complete, I have to say something for the suspected " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires.


The P-tires W and Y speedrating , have reference-speed of W 190kmph( 118mph) and Y 220kmph( 137mph) .
If you now have a V speedrated tire ( ref 99mph) and for instance Wspeedrated in same sise and both Standard load or mostly XL , so reference pressure SL 36psi and XL 42psi, they have the same loadindex/maximum load.
Then with reference pressure same and maxload same on tire , you suddenly may drive 118mph for W and 99mph for V speedrated without overheating the tire.


Now there are codes for temperature for tires, so some tires can have higher temp then others ( but what , temp of air in tire or rubber?).
So for W and Y you should suspect same powder trailerine in tire.


I still dont believe this, to my idea , if you drive for 15minutes 118 mph with reference-pressure in,and maxload on tire with a W speedrated tire, it must be overheating.
And only once is enaugh to distroy the tire in time .
Once read the advice to not drive for more then 3 minutes the maxspeed , and then go down to lower speed ( did not write howmuch lower).



Fact is that sertainly reference speed of Y speedrated so 137mph is not allowed in Europe, only in Germany on highway.
So I think the tiremakers hope that this happens that seldom , that drivers will blame themselfes when they have a blowing tire ( with accident and damage at least , but sometimes injuries and death, so no joke).


And if W and Y have that powder trailerine, it makes the tire more expencive. A ST tire is less expensive then a comparable LT , so still dont think that they would use the trailerine powder , if it existed.

[Bill M.]

Ahh....Now I understand.

I change my Airstream tires every 4 years. We drive faster than 55 most of the time here in the US. Tires are plentiful and fairly cheap. I would rather have good rubber on the road than some more things I have to store or haul. I used to believe the hype about trailer tires being compounded to last longer. Now I know better. Fortunately my education on that matter came on boat trailers and utility trailers before I got my Airstream. Old trailer tires crack and loose air and go bang sometimes.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by jadatis

To be complete, I have to say something for the suspected " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires.


The P-tires W and Y speedrating , have reference-speed of W 190kmph( 118mph) and Y 220kmph( 137mph) .
If you now have a V speedrated tire ( ref 99mph) and for instance Wspeedrated in same sise and both Standard load or mostly XL , so reference pressure SL 36psi and XL 42psi, they have the same loadindex/maximum load.
Then with reference pressure same and maxload same on tire , you suddenly may drive 118mph for W and 99mph for V speedrated without overheating the tire.


Now there are codes for temperature for tires, so some tires can have higher temp then others ( but what , temp of air in tire or rubber?).
So for W and Y you should suspect same powder trailerine in tire.


I still dont believe this, to my idea , if you drive for 15minutes 118 mph with reference-pressure in, and maxload on a tire with a W speedrated tire, it must be overheating.
And only once is enough to distroy the tire in time .
Once read the advice to not drive for more then 3 minutes the maxspeed , and then go down to lower speed ( did not write howmuch lower).



Fact is that sertainly reference speed of Y speedrated so 137mph is not allowed in Europe, only in Germany on highway.
So I think the tiremakers hope that this happens that seldom , that drivers will blame themselfes when they have a blowing tire ( with accident and damage at least , but sometimes injuries and death, so no joke).


And if W and Y have that powder trailerine, it makes the tire more expencive. A ST tire is less expensive then a comparable LT , so still dont think that they would use the trailerine powder , if it existed.

Having driven in US, Canada, England, Germany (including Autobon & Nurburg Ring), France, Switzerland, Mexico, Venezuela, and Brazil, I can attest that it is not realistic to try and compare tire usage in US vs Europe vs Central or South America. While portions of Europe do have high-speed roads they are the exception and the opportunity to travel at high speeds is significantly shorter duration than in the US where it is possible to drive at 70+ mph for two to three hours non-stop.


I know that when I was designing tires, the intended country of usage required different performance (durability) minimums as we had data to support the average life of a tire in different areas due to the combination of road speed, road condition and possible distance traveled. In some cases, while we had data that indicated a significantly higher percentage of the population was driving on underinflated tires it was also known that traveling faster than 60 mph was limited to stretches of less than 5 or 10 minutes at a time. As a result, the failure rate for certain conditions was quite different than what we see in the US.



The size and weight of RV in the uS is considerably different than in Europe. At a campground in Switzerland I do not recall seeing even a single Class-A or 5th wheel RV.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by jadatis

To be complete, I have to say something for the suspected " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires.


The P-tires W and Y speedrating , have reference-speed of W 190kmph( 118mph) and Y 220kmph( 137mph) .
If you now have a V speedrated tire ( ref 99mph) and for instance Wspeedrated in same sise and both Standard load or mostly XL , so reference pressure SL 36psi and XL 42psi, they have the same loadindex/maximum load.
Then with reference pressure same and maxload same on tire , you suddenly may drive 118mph for W and 99mph for V speedrated without overheating the tire.


Now there are codes for temperature for tires, so some tires can have higher temp then others ( but what , temp of air in tire or rubber?).
So for W and Y you should suspect same powder trailerine in tire.


I still dont believe this, to my idea , if you drive for 15minutes 118 mph with reference-pressure in,and maxload on tire with a W speedrated tire, it must be overheating.
And only once is enaugh to distroy the tire in time .
Once read the advice to not drive for more then 3 minutes the maxspeed , and then go down to lower speed ( did not write howmuch lower).



Fact is that sertainly reference speed of Y speedrated so 137mph is not allowed in Europe, only in Germany on highway.
So I think the tiremakers hope that this happens that seldom , that drivers will blame themselfes when they have a blowing tire ( with accident and damage at least , but sometimes injuries and death, so no joke).


And if W and Y have that powder trailerine, it makes the tire more expencive. A ST tire is less expensive then a comparable LT , so still dont think that they would use the trailerine powder , if it existed.

Is this guy a troll or what is the issue here?? What the heck is " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires... and why are we discussing 137MPH or P, W, Y speedratings in this thread anyway? Time to move on to real AS questions/answers...anybody else agree?

[jadatis]

@ gypsydad

I named the magical powder Tireman 9 mentioned " trailerine-powder" and supposed to be to keep the rubber cooler ( my input) so you can have more deflection so more load to carry at same pressure. I compared it with cartires with high maximum speed , wich also suddenly could carry same load at same pressure, but at higher speed.
For good understanding, I dont believe in that kind of powder, and think TM9 also not.
The long story I made was to make you conclude the higher maxload of ST to be only because of the lower speed of 65mph they still are calculated for.
Same maxload at higher speed of W and Y speedrated, can be compared with higher maxload at lower speed for ST tires.

There are additives for tires for temperature and UV protection, but to my idea effects are marginal.
Sicca and Tireblack i cams by in my tirepressure searches. Temperature gradation is also used for tires, but vage system , and can only be used to compare same brand and tirekind.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Is this guy a troll or what is the issue here?? What the heck is " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires... and why are we discussing 137MPH or P, W, Y speedratings in this thread anyway? Time to move on to real AS questions/answers...anybody else agree?

Could be...in the alone zone.

Bob
🇺🇸

[CBWELL]

I am putting new tires on my rig this year. My tires are 5 years old. I normally travel between 62 and 65 MPH. I inflate my tires to 60 PSI to prevent rivet problems, broken items in trailer, hinges breaking etc. My insurance deductible is $500. New tires cost me $600. Based on 5 years use, it has cost me $120 per year. If I "blow" a tire and do several thousand dollars of damage to my trailer, I will have to pay the $500 up front, be without my trailer when I want to use it, and possible incur several thousands of dollars extra costs for lodging etc. I use a TPMS system, and at every stop I walk around with my heat scanner and check hub and tire temperatures. It is a "no brainer" to replace tires every 5 years. I have chosen to use GT Maxmiller ST tires, load range "E" and am very pleased with them. It seems that there is way too much hi tech information and input on this thread. Buy the tires you can afford and are comfortable with, or have had good experience with. I don't give a rats a** about x y or z speed ratings on trailer tires. I want function, reliability, and price. It seems that we have a lot of members that have good intentions, but we are not all engineers, or scientists. Lets try to keep information to a level that the average owner can understand, use, and be comfortable with making tire purchasing decisions. JMHO

[ROBERT CROSS]

I've put on two sets + 1 tire because of self-inflicted curb rash.

But I treat my tires differently.

Bob
🇺🇸

[jadatis]

In my post #117 I asked first for more who did 6 years or more with ST tires.
CBWELL gives 5 years and not over 65mph and 60 psi, and loses no rivets.
I can accept his argumentation about 120 dollar a year, better then thousand of dollars damage.

But on other TT fora 3 to 4 years is normal , and mean to have read that ST tiremakers also give advice to renew after 3 to 4 years.
To my opinion its because those tires are used closer to the max then the newer Airstreams.
Someone menioned that older Airstreams where not provided with overcapacity tires , so Airstream improved.

Waiting for more reactions like this, but his and Topicstarters 6 years with no problems , prove me right already.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Is this guy a troll or what is the issue here?? What the heck is " Trailerine powder" put in trailer-tires... and why are we discussing 137MPH or P, W, Y speedratings in this thread anyway? Time to move on to real AS questions/answers...anybody else agree?

No Jadatis is not a troll.

He is Dutch so English isn't his first language.

He like some others on this and other RV Forums has a hobby of trying to answer technical questions on tires. He invented his own formula which is not completely wrong but he just doesn't seem to grasp that even if his formula was better than what is used by US Tire & Rim Assoc or the American tire companies the Load & Inflation tables are not going to be changed.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by CBWELL

I am putting new tires on my rig this year. My tires are 5 years old. I normally travel between 62 and 65 MPH. I inflate my tires to 60 PSI to prevent rivet problems, broken items in trailer, hinges breaking etc. My insurance deductible is $500. New tires cost me $600. Based on 5 years use, it has cost me $120 per year. If I "blow" a tire and do several thousand dollars of damage to my trailer, I will have to pay the $500 up front, be without my trailer when I want to use it, and possible incur several thousands of dollars extra costs for lodging etc. I use a TPMS system, and at every stop I walk around with my heat scanner and check hub and tire temperatures. It is a "no brainer" to replace tires every 5 years. I have chosen to use GT Maxmiller ST tires, load range "E" and am very pleased with them. It seems that there is way too much hi tech information and input on this thread. Buy the tires you can afford and are comfortable with, or have had good experience with. I don't give a rats a** about x y or z speed ratings on trailer tires. I want function, reliability, and price. It seems that we have a lot of members that have good intentions, but we are not all engineers, or scientists. Lets try to keep information to a level that the average owner can understand, use, and be comfortable with making tire purchasing decisions. JMHO

Glad you have found a plan that works for you. Someothers with different RV and different loading and different travel speeds will probably get different results.


RE too much technical info.


We could try and just one of the two actual tire engineers that follow this forum and after providing the needed info (Complete size, individual tire loading, your actual travel speed upper limit) We could offer a suggestion for size, LR and Infl. BUT for some reason people choose to keep asking Why that size, Why that inflation or I wanna go faster or spend less and jsutdon't seem to want to accept an expert's opinion so we start down the road of backing up our recommendation with facts and data. Sometimes that works but sometimes it doesn't.


It has been said you can lead a horse to water (Information and the answer) but you can't force them to drink (have people accept the answer).


Go have fun camping and good luck.😁

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

No Jadatis is not a troll.

He is Dutch so English isn't his first language.

He like some others on this and other RV Forums has a hobby of trying to answer technical questions on tires. He invented his own formula which is not completely wrong but he just doesn't seem to grasp that even if his formula was better than what is used by US Tire & Rim Assoc or the American tire companies the Load & Inflation tables are not going to be changed.

Well, thanks for the clarification...I deleted my reply after reading yours...Understand the confusion (mine and perhaps others??) As I mentioned...I'm done with this one...thanks.

[jadatis]

Tireman9 , thanks for defending me.
On RV forum I once opened a topic, to discuss about my ideas, and am planning to re-open it , also using what I learned in this topic.
http://https://www.rv.net/forum/inde...d/27477930.cfm
So , though I was not the one who began going off-topic, I Will not do my long story's here again.

For those few who interests it read the topic from link, and if you want to discuss there, register and do so.
The ideas developed while writing the topic, so the begin is a bit messy, and in my new posts there I will try to make it clearer.
Can take a while before you find my new posts, though it looks if I am only busy with writing these comments , I also have other things to do.

[jadatis]

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...d/27477930.cfm

To late to edit so this link must work

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by AlanMcD

The label on my Airstream says 80 PSI, I have it set to 75. Just had it to the factory and the Service Tech set the pressure.

Why would the factory service tech change the inflation from the Factory recommended setting?
What are the actual scale readings for each axle?


You might want to Google Interply Shear RV tires when thinking about tire inflation.