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Old 12-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #57
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Dec 12, 2011 ... Michelin Tires - LTX M/S2 Tires - Our Best-Selling Light Truck Tire.

The MICHELIN LTX® M/S2 tire offers an exceptional combination of performances for light
trucks and SUVs. ...
LTX M/S2 | Michelin Tires
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:39 PM   #58
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It's in that "gray area" that all the tire mfrs seem to be going. It's not a true LT tire....although they market it as a "light truck" tire. I BELIEVE it to be more like an extra load P metric tire with a 2185lb max load.

This is a market that opened up when truck buyers quit wanting a truck by virtue of it's total capability and wanted a carlike ride in a truck's skin. Just compare an SUV or 1/2 ton pickup today with one say, 20 years ago.

As long as these tires meet the load rating of the front and rear axle as labeled on your door jamp...and you don't exceed the ratings with your trailer and toys, you're OK.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:13 PM   #59
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The appearance of P tires on SUV's and pickups instead of LT tires has confused the question. Most such vehicles are not used off road and though the vehicles are often advertised as climbing Mt. Everest (slight exaggeration), they mostly stay on the highway. So, they often come with the cheapest tires the manufacturer can find.

Our '07 Tundra came with Goodrich P tires. Like too many OEM tires, they wore fast and rode badly. We replaced them with Michelin LTX A/T2 tires and they have lasted 50,000 miles with at least 10,000 more and they ride much better than the P tires. Michelin markets a couple of different versions of the LTX—usually one or more for highway travel and another is more for off road (A/T = all terrain)

This doesn't prove P tires ride better than LT tires. It does prove Michelin is better than Goodrich—Goodrich is Michelin's cheap brand.

The Rib has steel cords in the sidewall and is designed for one or more retreads. The target consumer is a company that does a lot of deliveries in a metro area. The tires are not used frequently at highway speeds and clock a lot of miles around town. Retreads extend the life of the carcass. It seems to me speed is the enemy of retreads, but these tires usually are going 25 or 35 mph.

But are they good for a travel trailer? It seems like overkill to me. They are unlikely to be retreaded as they will be pretty old before almost anyone with a travel trailer will need to do so. Will the stiff sidewall be appropriate for a travel trailer? There are two times when a stiff sidewall makes a difference—one concerns sway and some contend a stiff sidewall reduces sway. I don't know of any proof of this. It seems logical, but in real life it may make no difference.

The other thing is backing. Backing at maximum angles puts a lot of pressure on the tire sidewalls. A stiffer sidewall can cause the tire to skip sideways but a solution is to avoid backing at such severe angles (that also is good for tail light lenses). ST tires have stiffer sidewalls than P tires, and maybe more so than LT tires. I believe the stiffer sidewall was to prevent sway and prevent tires from separating from the wheel during backing. They were considered an improvement from the bias ply tires that used to come on trailers. Michelin Ribs have stiffer sidewalls than the LTX, but I don't know how they compare with ST tires. If ST tires were reliable (another point of contention) and had a high speed rating like LT's, then people would probably stick with them.

I think a good argument can be made for the Rib's, but a better argument is made for the LTX. Both are, in my opinion, superior to the ST tires.

One thing that I am totally sure of is that the tire threads will go on forever.

Gene
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:46 PM   #60
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I agree with Gene on all points EXCEPT the mfrs statement, "So, they often come with the cheapest tires the manufacturer can find."

In the case of an entry level vehicle or base truck, yeah sure. But I hardly think that p metric Michelins and Continentals, etc on Denalis, Escalades, Lincolns, Lexus etc. are used for price point pressures. It is done for ride quality and suspension tuning for "Concrete Cowboys" (Truck drivers who never use their vehicle like a truck). Many of these tires cost substantially more than an LT.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #61
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I agree with Gene on all points EXCEPT the mfrs statement, "So, they often come with the cheapest tires the manufacturer can find."

In the case of an entry level vehicle or base truck, yeah sure. But I hardly think that p metric Michelins and Continentals, etc on Denalis, Escalades, Lincolns, Lexus etc. are used for price point pressures. It is done for ride quality and suspension tuning for "Concrete Cowboys" (Truck drivers who never use their vehicle like a truck). Many of these tires cost substantially more than an LT.
dzn', I used "often". The more expensive models (like the Limited Tundra or 4Runner) often have better tires. Toyota in the past had two trim lines—SR5 and Limited. Now I think they have blurred the distinction. An SR5 Tundra had all we wanted except the tires, so given the price difference ($4,000 in '07), we came out ahead. For what it is worth, the '06 4Runner Limited had Michelin CrossTerrains (or a name like that) or another tire which I can't remember (Bridgestone?). We specified Michelins and they lasted 60,000+ miles. They were called all season though they had a fairly aggressive tread and did fine in a foot of new snow or ice or anything else. When it came time to replace them, Michelin had discontinued the CrossTerrain in that size, so we replaced them with LTX's.

One other point—P tires carry less weight than LT tires of the same size. That is why a P tires on a trailer may be the same size, but be inadequate for the trailer's weight even though they are fine on a truck or SUV that is never used as a truck.

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Old 12-21-2011, 03:34 PM   #62
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dzn', I used "often". The more expensive models (like the Limited Tundra or 4Runner) often have better tires. Toyota in the past had two trim lines—SR5 and Limited. Now I think they have blurred the distinction. An SR5 Tundra had all we wanted except the tires, so given the price difference ($4,000 in '07), we came out ahead. For what it is worth, the '06 4Runner Limited had Michelin CrossTerrains (or a name like that) or another tire which I can't remember (Bridgestone?). We specified Michelins and they lasted 60,000+ miles. They were called all season though they had a fairly aggressive tread and did fine in a foot of new snow or ice or anything else. When it came time to replace them, Michelin had discontinued the CrossTerrain in that size, so we replaced them with LTX's.

One other point—P tires carry less weight than LT tires of the same size. That is why a P tires on a trailer may be the same size, but be inadequate for the trailer's weight even though they are fine on a truck or SUV that is never used as a truck.

Gene
Correct, but now we have these "P"s showing up which carry a little more (2185# in this case and the name them LTX, inferring to some that the LT in LTX means light truck as defined by an LT designation.

Not so. The LTX lin has LTs and P metrics, albeit the P metrics seem to carry loads at or near an XL (extra load) tire without the XL moniker.

I, personally think this blurring the lines should be better policed by the industry and a clear, simple set of designations be established for each type of tread and sidewall construction and weight carrying capacity. But, hey, once again they didn't ask for my opinion.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:25 PM   #63
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I, personally think this blurring the lines should be better policed by the industry and a clear, simple set of designations be established for each type of tread and sidewall construction and weight carrying capacity. But, hey, once again they didn't ask for my opinion.
Nor mine. And the blurring of distinctions give us plenty of opportunity to go back and forth over this silliness. Our tires have performed very well and I suspect yours have as well.

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:08 PM   #64
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Nor mine. And the blurring of distinctions give us plenty of opportunity to go back and forth over this silliness. Our tires have performed very well and I suspect yours have as well.

Gene
Uh, yup...so far, so good.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:13 PM   #65
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So I just ordered 7 new Eddie Bauer style 16' wheels, with the black paint on them, with 7 Michelin LT M/S2 tires. 6 center caps and 30 tire Lugs. about $2600.00 plus tax and shipping. I am having them shipped to a tire dealer in my neighborhood, who will install my new TPMS aftermarket 6-Wheel Kit (P602C) from Orange Electronics.
So, I got my Eddie Bauer AS wheels Michelin tires and centramatics!
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:56 PM   #66
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Someone's heard The Troubs...
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:55 PM   #67
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I had an blow out on Goodyear Marathons ST225/75R15D1 113 B. These tries are about 5 years old with about 9,000 total. No damage to the trailer. I have made an apointment at my local Discount tires on Saturday for all replacements. He informs me that he would install Carlisle ST225/75R15E1 117 B this tire is 10 ply. Any thoughts???
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Old 05-29-2014, 01:33 AM   #68
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Links to some recent tire failure and 16-inch wheel threads (posts):

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1186770

Strongly suggest you do a little reading before buying Carlisle or any other brand of ST tires.
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