Do more plies in a tire help prevent blow out problems?

[RDM16CCD]

A question I've researched but can't find an answer to. Looking at Maxxis trailer tires, they offer three options (ST225/75R 15)

6 ply Load Range C 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI
8 ply Load Range D 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI
10 ply Load Range E 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI 2830 pounds @ 80 PSI


For my trailer I would need the 2150 @ 50 PSI - would buying the tires with more plies give me more protection against the 'blow out' problems that are the subject of so many other threads? Or is blow out not related to the number of plies and max load rating? My present wheels will 'take' 65 PSI, so I could go with the Load Range D or E tires & the higher PSI, if that helped the problem. My inclination is to go with the D tires and run them at 50 PSI - is this the right way to go? The two extra plies over the C tires would give me some safety margin against a blow out?

Thanks in advance for your opinions & info?

[Beginner]

The Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) only requires the ST class of tire be required to withstand 65 MPH.
The loss of integrity of the rubber that holds the tie together is what causes blowouts.
Actually the tires don’t "blow out", they start losing air. This causes the side walls to flex more and create more heat.
This heat causes the rubber to melt (lose integrity) and the belts start to slip.
The air leaks out faster because the slipping belts cause a faster leak.
The rubber lets go faster and the tire eventually comes apart.
At 65 miles an hour this takes only a minute or so.
In phone conversations with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration’s engineer responsible for the FAR, he stated that the overall rating of a tires ability to withstand heat is the SPEED RATING. The higher the speed rating the more heat the tire can withstand and survive.
The better the rubber compound (the more expensive) the more heat it can withstand.
Its not the number of extra caps or belts in the tire it’s the rubber that holds it together that is causing the problem.
In today’s cost cutting world if you think that a tire company is going to put the same rubber compound in a tire that is required to withstand 65 MPH that it puts in a tire that has to withstand 99 MPH of 140 MPH you are living in a fantasy word.
The safe speed for a ST tire is 55 MPH. If you inflate a ST tire to the point that the sidewall is not flexing (Load Range E of F) all you are doing is destroying your trailer.
Go to a tire that has a Speed Rating of 99 MPH or better. The only one on the market that I’m aware of is the Cooper Custom Trailer Plus (99MPH) but their marketing structure is such that this tire is hard to get and will be on the road.
I went to the BF Goodrich Commercial T/A LT225/75R16 Load Range D and run 60 PSI. 60 PSI is recommended by Airstream. If I have to go to E rated Commercial T/A I would still run 60 PSI as that is the pressure that is required for the weight of the trailer.
Beginner

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by RDM16CCD

A question I've researched but can't find an answer to. Looking at Maxxis trailer tires, they offer three options (ST225/75R 15)

6 ply Load Range C 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI
8 ply Load Range D 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI
10 ply Load Range E 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI 2830 pounds @ 80 PSI


For my trailer I would need the 2150 @ 50 PSI - would buying the tires with more plies give me more protection against the 'blow out' problems that are the subject of so many other threads? Or is blow out not related to the number of plies and max load rating? My present wheels will 'take' 65 PSI, so I could go with the Load Range D or E tires & the higher PSI, if that helped the problem. My inclination is to go with the D tires and run them at 50 PSI - is this the right way to go? The two extra plies over the C tires would give me some safety margin against a blow out?

Thanks in advance for your opinions & info?

Your asking a question, but you have not provided the basics.

What "exact" year and length Airstream do you have.

What rating tire to use is directly related to the loads that will be imposed on the tires.

Andy

[Silvertwinkie]

If going by your username you have a 16' CCD, then yes, you would be just fine with the 6 ply tires because you have a total of maybe 3500 to 3700lbs of weight and some of that is going to be placed on the hitch.

Plies don't necc stop blowouts (particularly in your weight range). Driving habits, maint, and some level of luck not picking something up in the tire at the wrong place at the wrong time, potholes, also play some level as to the why and how of tire issues.

Airstream uses the 2540 weight rated Marathons on the 19' Bambi and on my 25' Safari (though there are 4 tires/two axles on the Safari).

I would think if the tire sizes were the same you could in fact go with the 8 ply and not have too stiff of a ride. 10 ply would be way, way, way overkill unless you tore open the back, reinforced the frame and used your CCD as a toy hauler.

I think one of the real benefits of the Maxxis tires that gets glazed over is that they use a nylon cap on some of the tires. I know the 8 ply tires have such a cap. This cap has been used in performance tires for years and has been proven to help reduce the dreaded tread separation other brands seem to have in abundance.

All that said, I'd say 6 or 8 ply, unless the 6 ply tires don't have the nylon cap, in which case I'd say go for the 8 ply and don't fill it up to 65lbs, maybe 60ish.

[RDM16CCD]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Your asking a question, but you have not provided the basics.

What "exact" year and length Airstream do you have.

What rating tire to use is directly related to the loads that will be imposed on the tires.

Andy

Andy
That info used to be in my signature but it went away! I added it back now.

My trailer is a 2005 16' CCD - 3,500 # weight rating.

I've been wanting to upgrade the axle to the 4,300 # one that the Airstream rep told me they used in Canada for this model year. But the local dealer said they did not want to take that on and I never seem to get the time to make a trip back to Ohio, or in your direction, to get the job done. This year marks the 5 year old point for the tires so I'm replacing them as I've read on many posts here that is good to do. I decided to go ahead and go with the 15" wheels that would go with the 4,300# axle and the ST225/75R15 tires that go with it - except my wheels have the 5 lug instead of 6 lug since its the original axle.

I have no intention to overload the trailer - just wanting to increase the 'safety margin' with the tires. Decided to go with the Maxxis over the Marathon simply due to the bad 'press' the Marathon's seem to have, tho' I've had no trouble with my OE Marathons. Had I been able to get the axle upgraded, it would have been fitted with D rated tires (tho' I'm not sure what brand the factory would have used).

Also, I've recently purchased the Air Safe hitch to avoid the problems that some mention with towing a smaller trailer with a HD truck. Not had trouble with mine so just a preventative measure. I already have the Equal-I-Zer brand hitch with the 600# bars - the lightest set up they had when I bought my trailer in 2005.

Appreciate knowing your advice on which tire rating would be best, and what PSI I should run them at.

Thanks
Bob

PS - Also purchased a Pressure Pro system that I will use on the trailer since others here have reported that it gave them an 'early warning' of tire failure

[RDM16CCD]

Originally Posted by Beginner

The Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) only requires the ST class of tire be required to withstand 65 MPH.
The loss of integrity of the rubber that holds the tie together is what causes blowouts.
Actually the tires don’t "blow out", they start losing air. This causes the side walls to flex more and create more heat.
This heat causes the rubber to melt (lose integrity) and the belts start to slip.
The air leaks out faster because the slipping belts cause a faster leak.
The rubber lets go faster and the tire eventually comes apart.
At 65 miles an hour this takes only a minute or so.
In phone conversations with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration’s engineer responsible for the FAR, he stated that the overall rating of a tires ability to withstand heat is the SPEED RATING. The higher the speed rating the more heat the tire can withstand and survive.
The better the rubber compound (the more expensive) the more heat it can withstand.
Its not the number of extra caps or belts in the tire it’s the rubber that holds it together that is causing the problem.
In today’s cost cutting world if you think that a tire company is going to put the same rubber compound in a tire that is required to withstand 65 MPH that it puts in a tire that has to withstand 99 MPH of 140 MPH you are living in a fantasy word.
The safe speed for a ST tire is 55 MPH. If you inflate a ST tire to the point that the sidewall is not flexing (Load Range E of F) all you are doing is destroying your trailer.
Go to a tire that has a Speed Rating of 99 MPH or better. The only one on the market that I’m aware of is the Cooper Custom Trailer Plus (99MPH) but their marketing structure is such that this tire is hard to get and will be on the road.
I went to the BF Goodrich Commercial T/A LT225/75R16 Load Range D and run 60 PSI. 60 PSI is recommended by Airstream. If I have to go to E rated Commercial T/A I would still run 60 PSI as that is the pressure that is required for the weight of the trailer.
Beginner

Thanks for this excellent explanation. My 16'er came with 14" wheels which I am upgrading to 15" - I wish I could use the 16" because that would open up the tire selection to the LT tires, like you mention. But going from 14 to 16" seems too big a departure, and there is not such a good selection of 15" LT tires to choose from, so I'm settling on the ST Maxxis. I looked up the Cooper and agree that looks better due to the speed rating, but can not find a local dealer to get them for me and don't like to order tires on line since I can't inspect them (was it stored outside, is it already a couple years old, etc) before buying them. Perhaps I should take the chance and go with on line Coopers anyway.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by RDM16CCD

Andy
That info used to be in my signature but it went away! I added it back now.

My trailer is a 2005 16' CCD - 3,500 # weight rating.

I've been wanting to upgrade the axle to the 4,300 # one that the Airstream rep told me they used in Canada for this model year. But the local dealer said they did not want to take that on and I never seem to get the time to make a trip back to Ohio, or in your direction, to get the job done. This year marks the 5 year old point for the tires so I'm replacing them as I've read on many posts here that is good to do. I decided to go ahead and go with the 15" wheels that would go with the 4,300# axle and the ST225/75R15 tires that go with it - except my wheels have the 5 lug instead of 6 lug since its the original axle.

I have no intention to overload the trailer - just wanting to increase the 'safety margin' with the tires. Decided to go with the Maxxis over the Marathon simply due to the bad 'press' the Marathon's seem to have, tho' I've had no trouble with my OE Marathons. Had I been able to get the axle upgraded, it would have been fitted with D rated tires (tho' I'm not sure what brand the factory would have used).

Also, I've recently purchased the Air Safe hitch to avoid the problems that some mention with towing a smaller trailer with a HD truck. Not had trouble with mine so just a preventative measure. I already have the Equal-I-Zer brand hitch with the 600# bars - the lightest set up they had when I bought my trailer in 2005.

Appreciate knowing your advice on which tire rating would be best, and what PSI I should run them at.

Thanks
Bob

PS - Also purchased a Pressure Pro system that I will use on the trailer since others here have reported that it gave them an 'early warning' of tire failure

Stay with the "D" tires.

Depending on the load, 55 to 60 PSI should be adequate.

Installing some Centramatic balancers would also help.

You don't have to be in California to get an axle. We ship them or drop ship the all over including Europe.

Please check your PM for a personal message.

Andy

[Ganaraska]

More plies may prevent blowouts, or may cause blowouts. Let me explain.

Everything else being equal, the more plies or layers of fabric in a tire the more weight it will carry and the more "heavy duty" it is.

On the other hand, the more plies the more the tire holds heat. Heat buildup is the main cause of blowouts on the hiway. Heat buildup may be caused by too low pressure causing excess flexing of the tire. This is why under inflated tires tend to blow. The excess flexing leads to internal friction which causes heat, which weakens the tire.

A heavy duty tire with many plies also generates more heat and the thick carcase does not allow the heat to disperse. On a hot day, beyond a certain speed, the heat builds up faster than it can disperse and the tire gets hotter and hotter until it blows.

Therefore, if you use the heavy duty tires you want to keep your speed down especially in hot weather. The real heavy duty jobs are best suited to construction trailers that are not used at high speed.

The best thing to do is follow the maker's instructions as far as the size and load rating of the tire, tire pressure, and speed rating,

More plies may not be better for a trailer used on the hiway.

[Bob Thompson]

Did I miss something! Just because a tire says it has 6 Plys or 8 Plys does not mean, in most cases, that's how many tires it has! If you read more closely on your tires it will say "6 PLY RATING" or "8 PLY Rated" but it still has just 2 plys polyester on the sidewalls and 2 plys steel on the tread or similar. They are just thicker plys not more plys.

[Silvertwinkie]

Bob is right...looking at the Maxxis site, it clearly states ply rating.

As for keeping speed down, there is clearly IMHO some truth to that.

I tow about 62mph. Last year, a 5er blew past me in the left lane as if I were standing still. About 30 miles up the road I caught up with him. His new 5er was on the side of the road with a blowout...with his wheel well all tore up.

Later on, a 24' rig passed me by doing somewhere around 75mph. Not the newest looking RV, but looked to be in great shape. About 20 minutes later, he too was on the side of the road with a blowout.

I simply drove on by both (didn't appear to need any assistance) at my comfy 62mph. Why 62mph? I found that is my sweet spot between getting to the destination and mpg. Also I don't feel I need to drive 70+ as I read in several places the trailer tires are not rated for higher speeds. Even if I wanted to drive any faster, mpg takes a big hit....slower of course mpg goes up. These two fellers should have also found their sweet spot and hopefully not at 80mph. At $2.50/gallon, every MPG counts.

[Ganaraska]

Silvertwinkie you should feel at home travelling in Canada, our speed limit is 100Km Hr = 62 Mph. Lol.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Ganaraska

Silvertwinkie you should feel at home travelling in Canada, our speed limit is 100Km Hr = 62 Mph. Lol.

As long as I have my trailer I'd be in good shape, that's one place I tend to be very conservitive and with several good reasons as we all could imagine...Heck on my trip to Jackson Center I got nearly 14 mpg towing...of course I followed GM's break in procedure and only drove about 50mph on that 300 mile trip. Then again, whenever I drive the Suburban, I don't typically drive it like I stole it either. I do have to get back to Canada at some point...it is really, really nice up there.

However, I am no saint..... I have been known to have a rather heavy foot when driving my sportier car (96 Impala SS) all by itself. Luckily, I have to work about 9 hours a day, and sleep about 8....giving me only about 7 hours to get a citation for breaking the sound barrier.

Like most Illinoisians, particularly in the Chicago area, we typically add about 20 to any posted speed limit. I've been known surpass that plus 20 rule on occasion(but only for a very short distance). I blame the car, it just does it on it's own! She's real fun my LT1, till I have to feed 'er.

[Ganaraska]

Drive it like you stole it LOL, check before every trip that all your tail lights license lights and headlights work. Check tires are up. Keep all your eyes open for cop cars, drive very cautiously, obey all speed limits exactly, come to a complete stop at all stop signs. That is how you drive a stolen car.

[Bob Thompson]

It's funny how we can exalt 454 cubic inches of self indulgence and belittle 47 mpg of frugal. That's curb appeal without character in some books.

[JimGolden]

If you like Maxxis, check out the UE-168. It's a dual rated tire; an LT and ST. I think it's basically an LT tire with extra UV inhibitor in the sidewalls.

I have the Load Range D version in 225/70-15 on my Avion 34X tri-axle. I've towed them about 5-6000 miles so far and not had any trouble at all. Like the other fellows, I run 60psi in them.

Just as a test I ran them last summer on a 90+ degree day up to about 75mph for about 20 miles, then pulled off the road quickly and went back to check them. I could lay my hand on them and it wasn't uncomfortable. Not real scientific, but I'd say they were at least under 130 degrees F. Probably more like 120. I need to repeat with one of those infrared thermometers, but I don't have one yet (neat piece of gagetry those).

Anyway, if you want to stay with Maxxis, I'd heartily recommend this tire.

On my Avion, the gross weight is 9600lbs, and with six of these tires, my capacity is somewhere around 16,000lbs, so I've got plenty of safety margin.

Best bet, I think though, is to get new wheels and upgrade to 16" or 17". The selection will really open up for you then. I plan to do that sometime. Just $$$$ with six of them

Best of luck,

[COArgosy78]

Hello - I posted this question on a thread titled Cooper Custom Trailer Plus yesterday,but will also ck here. We are looking into replacement tires & read the Cooper thread w/interest, but when I called Cooper tire, they indicated that the above mentioned tire has been discontinued??? Anyway, they suggested I call some local wholesalers who might sell direct. I called one (they did not have), but they told me that Cooper manufactures a trailer tire they said was the same? under the "National" brand? Does anyone know of this and/or has anyone used a National tire? It is called Akuret. Thanks

[Bob Thompson]

Leigh, if you're having trouble finding them now, it could be a real problem 3 years from now if you were to damage and need to replace a tire. You may want to consider buying a tire with a good reputation plus be easy to find should a replacement be needed out on the road.

[COArgosy78]

Thanks for the reply Bob. Yes, we have figured that the Cooper Custom is out (altho the Customer Serv. rep @Cooper did say they were getting a lot of calls for that particular tire). I am wondering about this other tire manufactured by Cooper but under the National brand, tho. Have you heard of an Akuret? Suppose to be made by Cooper? I guess I could call back to Cooper CS for varifiction on Mond. but also wondered if any one here has used them? Thanks.

[Airslide]

I have been thinking about this thread for a few days and decided to see how my new Carlisles are doing. I have a little over a thousand miles on them now. To my surprise the yellow stripes down the center are still visible. In looking a little closer I can also see that the center of the tire really doesnt make contact with the street surface? Ok this is visible by not only the yellow stipes but the soft excess rubber seam at the center of the tire. I decided to take a picture of this gap and was able to slide .022 into the center tread of the tire. I decided on these tires as this trailer has an empty weight of UVW 8165. Start adding water, tanks and excess and your up at the GVW of 9100 quickly. So more about the tires.
Carlisle radial trails ST225/75 R15 Load E 2830LB's @ 80psi. I have them set to 65 cold and have checked the pressure on a hot day just after the freeway and they were at 70psi. They have 8plys on the tread.. not 8 ply rated but actually 8 plys and 2 ply sidewalls.

So. Is it designed to wear in flat after a few thousand miles or will it continue to behave like this. This trailer is heavy and I have had my son ride in it while traveling and he said its like crusing in a caddy. No vibration or harsh hits when going on rough surfaces. This is just an observation of how these tires are behaving with my set up.. not meant to be a hyjack of this tread.

Thanks Vinnie

[COArgosy78]

Well, here is some interesting info I came across while researching. Thought it might come in handy for others here. I have discovered that the Akuret is a private brand tire sold thru Del-Nat. They indicated that private brands are manufactured by various National manufacturers so I have not varified they are made by Cooper. I'll keep looking. I also learned the Akuret is an all season tire - some are not. Anyway...this doesn't relate to trailer tires specifically, but has some very good tire info...

Sunday, June 8, 2008




B F Goodrich Long Trail T/A,

OK, what did you do with your stimulus check. Did you buy something made in America? I bought something made in America by American craftsman. I bought 4 new tires for my American made GMC pickup truck. The tires were made in the USA but the company that owns the plant is Michelin and they are French.

I bought 4 BF Goodrich tires. BF Goodrich used to be American owned but in the 1980's Michelin bought them out. I did a lot of research of who owns what and there are two major American owned and American made automobile tire companies left in America. They are Goodyear and Cooper tires. Goodyear is the world's largest tire manufacturer, they manufacture the best and near worst tires. Cooper tires have a few plants but the ones in Texarkana Arkansas and Tupelo Mississippi have seen nothing but problems over the past few years with process, management, quality control and material. They have had quite a few recalls. The last ones just occured in March of 2008. Check here to see if your tires or vehicle are under a recall. Recalls.Gov

I ended up buying BF Goodrich tires for a few reasons. The first reason is they are made in America by Americans. The plant they were made at according to the DOT code is Tuscaloosa Alabama. The whole process of choosing the right tire for the right price was made much easier by a website called The Tire Rack. I found the right size tires, I read the customer reviews and then compared the prices. The whole time I was doing this I kept in mind that for me the tires had to be made in the USA and they had to be of recent manufacture (tires are good for 6 years).

The DOT code on the tire tells the story of where it's made and when it's made. The first two digits after the initials DOT are the codes for the manufacturer. The last three or four digits tell when the tires are made according to the week and year. Here's an example, my new tires had the DOT code that looked like this: DOT BE ---- 4207. The "BE" indicates the BF Goodrich plant in Tuscaloosa Alabama. The dashes represent the manufacturers size and style codes. The "4207" at the end indicates they were manufactured in the 42nd week of 2007 (the week of October 21st 2007).

Anyway, my new tires look nice, they ride nice and they were manufactured here in the good old USA even though the company that owns the plant is based in France. That was an acceptable compromise to me.

Now tell us how you spent your stimulus check or we can talk about tires if you like.

Here's some links to check out your own tires.

NHTSA Manufacturer's information
(uncheck all the boxes at the left except for tires and enter the first two digits of your DOT code at the very bottom box marked DOT ID)

Autopedia a comprehensive list of tire manufacturers.

All the DOT Tire Plant Codes

Sidewall Markings at Tire Rack Tech Center