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Old 05-12-2009, 01:34 AM   #1
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2005 16' International CCD
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Do more plies in a tire help prevent blow out problems?

A question I've researched but can't find an answer to. Looking at Maxxis trailer tires, they offer three options (ST225/75R 15)

6 ply Load Range C 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI
8 ply Load Range D 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI
10 ply Load Range E 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI 2830 pounds @ 80 PSI


For my trailer I would need the 2150 @ 50 PSI - would buying the tires with more plies give me more protection against the 'blow out' problems that are the subject of so many other threads? Or is blow out not related to the number of plies and max load rating? My present wheels will 'take' 65 PSI, so I could go with the Load Range D or E tires & the higher PSI, if that helped the problem. My inclination is to go with the D tires and run them at 50 PSI - is this the right way to go? The two extra plies over the C tires would give me some safety margin against a blow out?

Thanks in advance for your opinions & info?
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Old 05-12-2009, 06:22 AM   #2
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ST Tires

The Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) only requires the ST class of tire be required to withstand 65 MPH.
The loss of integrity of the rubber that holds the tie together is what causes blowouts.
Actually the tires donít "blow out", they start losing air. This causes the side walls to flex more and create more heat.
This heat causes the rubber to melt (lose integrity) and the belts start to slip.
The air leaks out faster because the slipping belts cause a faster leak.
The rubber lets go faster and the tire eventually comes apart.
At 65 miles an hour this takes only a minute or so.
In phone conversations with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administrationís engineer responsible for the FAR, he stated that the overall rating of a tires ability to withstand heat is the SPEED RATING. The higher the speed rating the more heat the tire can withstand and survive.
The better the rubber compound (the more expensive) the more heat it can withstand.
Its not the number of extra caps or belts in the tire itís the rubber that holds it together that is causing the problem.
In todayís cost cutting world if you think that a tire company is going to put the same rubber compound in a tire that is required to withstand 65 MPH that it puts in a tire that has to withstand 99 MPH of 140 MPH you are living in a fantasy word.
The safe speed for a ST tire is 55 MPH. If you inflate a ST tire to the point that the sidewall is not flexing (Load Range E of F) all you are doing is destroying your trailer.
Go to a tire that has a Speed Rating of 99 MPH or better. The only one on the market that Iím aware of is the Cooper Custom Trailer Plus (99MPH) but their marketing structure is such that this tire is hard to get and will be on the road.
I went to the BF Goodrich Commercial T/A LT225/75R16 Load Range D and run 60 PSI. 60 PSI is recommended by Airstream. If I have to go to E rated Commercial T/A I would still run 60 PSI as that is the pressure that is required for the weight of the trailer.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:28 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM16CCD View Post
A question I've researched but can't find an answer to. Looking at Maxxis trailer tires, they offer three options (ST225/75R 15)

6 ply Load Range C 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI
8 ply Load Range D 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI
10 ply Load Range E 2150 pounds @ 50 PSI 2540 pounds @ 65 PSI 2830 pounds @ 80 PSI


For my trailer I would need the 2150 @ 50 PSI - would buying the tires with more plies give me more protection against the 'blow out' problems that are the subject of so many other threads? Or is blow out not related to the number of plies and max load rating? My present wheels will 'take' 65 PSI, so I could go with the Load Range D or E tires & the higher PSI, if that helped the problem. My inclination is to go with the D tires and run them at 50 PSI - is this the right way to go? The two extra plies over the C tires would give me some safety margin against a blow out?

Thanks in advance for your opinions & info?
Your asking a question, but you have not provided the basics.

What "exact" year and length Airstream do you have.

What rating tire to use is directly related to the loads that will be imposed on the tires.

Andy
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:38 AM   #4
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If going by your username you have a 16' CCD, then yes, you would be just fine with the 6 ply tires because you have a total of maybe 3500 to 3700lbs of weight and some of that is going to be placed on the hitch.

Plies don't necc stop blowouts (particularly in your weight range). Driving habits, maint, and some level of luck not picking something up in the tire at the wrong place at the wrong time, potholes, also play some level as to the why and how of tire issues.

Airstream uses the 2540 weight rated Marathons on the 19' Bambi and on my 25' Safari (though there are 4 tires/two axles on the Safari).

I would think if the tire sizes were the same you could in fact go with the 8 ply and not have too stiff of a ride. 10 ply would be way, way, way overkill unless you tore open the back, reinforced the frame and used your CCD as a toy hauler.

I think one of the real benefits of the Maxxis tires that gets glazed over is that they use a nylon cap on some of the tires. I know the 8 ply tires have such a cap. This cap has been used in performance tires for years and has been proven to help reduce the dreaded tread separation other brands seem to have in abundance.

All that said, I'd say 6 or 8 ply, unless the 6 ply tires don't have the nylon cap, in which case I'd say go for the 8 ply and don't fill it up to 65lbs, maybe 60ish.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Your asking a question, but you have not provided the basics.

What "exact" year and length Airstream do you have.

What rating tire to use is directly related to the loads that will be imposed on the tires.

Andy
Andy
That info used to be in my signature but it went away! I added it back now.

My trailer is a 2005 16' CCD - 3,500 # weight rating.

I've been wanting to upgrade the axle to the 4,300 # one that the Airstream rep told me they used in Canada for this model year. But the local dealer said they did not want to take that on and I never seem to get the time to make a trip back to Ohio, or in your direction, to get the job done. This year marks the 5 year old point for the tires so I'm replacing them as I've read on many posts here that is good to do. I decided to go ahead and go with the 15" wheels that would go with the 4,300# axle and the ST225/75R15 tires that go with it - except my wheels have the 5 lug instead of 6 lug since its the original axle.

I have no intention to overload the trailer - just wanting to increase the 'safety margin' with the tires. Decided to go with the Maxxis over the Marathon simply due to the bad 'press' the Marathon's seem to have, tho' I've had no trouble with my OE Marathons. Had I been able to get the axle upgraded, it would have been fitted with D rated tires (tho' I'm not sure what brand the factory would have used).

Also, I've recently purchased the Air Safe hitch to avoid the problems that some mention with towing a smaller trailer with a HD truck. Not had trouble with mine so just a preventative measure. I already have the Equal-I-Zer brand hitch with the 600# bars - the lightest set up they had when I bought my trailer in 2005.

Appreciate knowing your advice on which tire rating would be best, and what PSI I should run them at.

Thanks
Bob

PS - Also purchased a Pressure Pro system that I will use on the trailer since others here have reported that it gave them an 'early warning' of tire failure
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beginner View Post
The Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) only requires the ST class of tire be required to withstand 65 MPH.
The loss of integrity of the rubber that holds the tie together is what causes blowouts.
Actually the tires donít "blow out", they start losing air. This causes the side walls to flex more and create more heat.
This heat causes the rubber to melt (lose integrity) and the belts start to slip.
The air leaks out faster because the slipping belts cause a faster leak.
The rubber lets go faster and the tire eventually comes apart.
At 65 miles an hour this takes only a minute or so.
In phone conversations with the National Highway Transportation Safety Administrationís engineer responsible for the FAR, he stated that the overall rating of a tires ability to withstand heat is the SPEED RATING. The higher the speed rating the more heat the tire can withstand and survive.
The better the rubber compound (the more expensive) the more heat it can withstand.
Its not the number of extra caps or belts in the tire itís the rubber that holds it together that is causing the problem.
In todayís cost cutting world if you think that a tire company is going to put the same rubber compound in a tire that is required to withstand 65 MPH that it puts in a tire that has to withstand 99 MPH of 140 MPH you are living in a fantasy word.
The safe speed for a ST tire is 55 MPH. If you inflate a ST tire to the point that the sidewall is not flexing (Load Range E of F) all you are doing is destroying your trailer.
Go to a tire that has a Speed Rating of 99 MPH or better. The only one on the market that Iím aware of is the Cooper Custom Trailer Plus (99MPH) but their marketing structure is such that this tire is hard to get and will be on the road.
I went to the BF Goodrich Commercial T/A LT225/75R16 Load Range D and run 60 PSI. 60 PSI is recommended by Airstream. If I have to go to E rated Commercial T/A I would still run 60 PSI as that is the pressure that is required for the weight of the trailer.
Beginner
Thanks for this excellent explanation. My 16'er came with 14" wheels which I am upgrading to 15" - I wish I could use the 16" because that would open up the tire selection to the LT tires, like you mention. But going from 14 to 16" seems too big a departure, and there is not such a good selection of 15" LT tires to choose from, so I'm settling on the ST Maxxis. I looked up the Cooper and agree that looks better due to the speed rating, but can not find a local dealer to get them for me and don't like to order tires on line since I can't inspect them (was it stored outside, is it already a couple years old, etc) before buying them. Perhaps I should take the chance and go with on line Coopers anyway.
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RDM16CCD View Post
Andy
That info used to be in my signature but it went away! I added it back now.

My trailer is a 2005 16' CCD - 3,500 # weight rating.

I've been wanting to upgrade the axle to the 4,300 # one that the Airstream rep told me they used in Canada for this model year. But the local dealer said they did not want to take that on and I never seem to get the time to make a trip back to Ohio, or in your direction, to get the job done. This year marks the 5 year old point for the tires so I'm replacing them as I've read on many posts here that is good to do. I decided to go ahead and go with the 15" wheels that would go with the 4,300# axle and the ST225/75R15 tires that go with it - except my wheels have the 5 lug instead of 6 lug since its the original axle.

I have no intention to overload the trailer - just wanting to increase the 'safety margin' with the tires. Decided to go with the Maxxis over the Marathon simply due to the bad 'press' the Marathon's seem to have, tho' I've had no trouble with my OE Marathons. Had I been able to get the axle upgraded, it would have been fitted with D rated tires (tho' I'm not sure what brand the factory would have used).

Also, I've recently purchased the Air Safe hitch to avoid the problems that some mention with towing a smaller trailer with a HD truck. Not had trouble with mine so just a preventative measure. I already have the Equal-I-Zer brand hitch with the 600# bars - the lightest set up they had when I bought my trailer in 2005.

Appreciate knowing your advice on which tire rating would be best, and what PSI I should run them at.

Thanks
Bob

PS - Also purchased a Pressure Pro system that I will use on the trailer since others here have reported that it gave them an 'early warning' of tire failure
Stay with the "D" tires.

Depending on the load, 55 to 60 PSI should be adequate.

Installing some Centramatic balancers would also help.

You don't have to be in California to get an axle. We ship them or drop ship the all over including Europe.

Please check your PM for a personal message.

Andy
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:03 AM   #8
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More plies may prevent blowouts, or may cause blowouts. Let me explain.

Everything else being equal, the more plies or layers of fabric in a tire the more weight it will carry and the more "heavy duty" it is.

On the other hand, the more plies the more the tire holds heat. Heat buildup is the main cause of blowouts on the hiway. Heat buildup may be caused by too low pressure causing excess flexing of the tire. This is why under inflated tires tend to blow. The excess flexing leads to internal friction which causes heat, which weakens the tire.

A heavy duty tire with many plies also generates more heat and the thick carcase does not allow the heat to disperse. On a hot day, beyond a certain speed, the heat builds up faster than it can disperse and the tire gets hotter and hotter until it blows.

Therefore, if you use the heavy duty tires you want to keep your speed down especially in hot weather. The real heavy duty jobs are best suited to construction trailers that are not used at high speed.

The best thing to do is follow the maker's instructions as far as the size and load rating of the tire, tire pressure, and speed rating,

More plies may not be better for a trailer used on the hiway.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:49 AM   #9
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Did I miss something! Just because a tire says it has 6 Plys or 8 Plys does not mean, in most cases, that's how many tires it has! If you read more closely on your tires it will say "6 PLY RATING" or "8 PLY Rated" but it still has just 2 plys polyester on the sidewalls and 2 plys steel on the tread or similar. They are just thicker plys not more plys.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:05 AM   #10
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Bob is right...looking at the Maxxis site, it clearly states ply rating.

As for keeping speed down, there is clearly IMHO some truth to that.

I tow about 62mph. Last year, a 5er blew past me in the left lane as if I were standing still. About 30 miles up the road I caught up with him. His new 5er was on the side of the road with a blowout...with his wheel well all tore up.

Later on, a 24' rig passed me by doing somewhere around 75mph. Not the newest looking RV, but looked to be in great shape. About 20 minutes later, he too was on the side of the road with a blowout.

I simply drove on by both (didn't appear to need any assistance) at my comfy 62mph. Why 62mph? I found that is my sweet spot between getting to the destination and mpg. Also I don't feel I need to drive 70+ as I read in several places the trailer tires are not rated for higher speeds. Even if I wanted to drive any faster, mpg takes a big hit....slower of course mpg goes up. These two fellers should have also found their sweet spot and hopefully not at 80mph. At $2.50/gallon, every MPG counts.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:02 PM   #11
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Silvertwinkie you should feel at home travelling in Canada, our speed limit is 100Km Hr = 62 Mph. Lol.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:02 AM   #12
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Silvertwinkie you should feel at home travelling in Canada, our speed limit is 100Km Hr = 62 Mph. Lol.

As long as I have my trailer I'd be in good shape, that's one place I tend to be very conservitive and with several good reasons as we all could imagine...Heck on my trip to Jackson Center I got nearly 14 mpg towing...of course I followed GM's break in procedure and only drove about 50mph on that 300 mile trip. Then again, whenever I drive the Suburban, I don't typically drive it like I stole it either. I do have to get back to Canada at some point...it is really, really nice up there.

However, I am no saint..... I have been known to have a rather heavy foot when driving my sportier car (96 Impala SS) all by itself. Luckily, I have to work about 9 hours a day, and sleep about 8....giving me only about 7 hours to get a citation for breaking the sound barrier.

Like most Illinoisians, particularly in the Chicago area, we typically add about 20 to any posted speed limit. I've been known surpass that plus 20 rule on occasion(but only for a very short distance). I blame the car, it just does it on it's own! She's real fun my LT1, till I have to feed 'er.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:30 AM   #13
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Drive it like you stole it LOL, check before every trip that all your tail lights license lights and headlights work. Check tires are up. Keep all your eyes open for cop cars, drive very cautiously, obey all speed limits exactly, come to a complete stop at all stop signs. That is how you drive a stolen car.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:13 AM   #14
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It's funny how we can exalt 454 cubic inches of self indulgence and belittle 47 mpg of frugal. That's curb appeal without character in some books.
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