Centramatics reduce tire failures?

[boondockdad]

I've had (5) Goodyear Marathon failures in roughly 53 months/30,400 miles +/- 50miles

All things being equal: 65mph speed rating, proper inflation, wheel balancing
Is there a consensus on whether dynamic wheel balancers reduce tread separation failures?
('tread separation' is the consensus on the nature of these GYM failures, right?)


After googlesearching, I found only one mention of it here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...tml#post961292

I know there's a lot of folks here that use DWB's (and just as many who have and haven't experienced tire failure), and I'd really appreciate any input.
Thanks

-Joe

[dznf0g]

Unless, the tire and wheel are pretty severely out of balance, which you would know by tread cupping, I doubt that Centramatics would reduce tire trouble of this magnitude. Just MO.

[ZoominC6]

We purchased our Centramatics back in 2005 to simply "FINE TUNE" wheels that were already balanced and they have done just that based on tread wear over the years and two sets of tires. The photo shown in the previous posting obviously needed replacement LONG before it got to the stage shown in the photo!

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by ZoominC6

...The photo shown in the previous posting obviously needed replacement LONG before it got to the stage shown in the photo!

What makes you say that?

That tire had not even 18 months on it. We were back from a 2,400 mile trip when that occurred in the very last leg... somewhere between the gas stop (check tires, rotor temps) in Toledo and my driveway.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

What makes you say that?

That tire had not even 18 months on it. We were back from a 2,400 mile trip when that occurred in the very last leg... somewhere between the gas stop (check tires, rotor temps) in Toledo and my driveway.

I agree, In my experience, tread throwing happens pretty quickly and is often not anticipated. I have had this happen a couple of times (not GYMs though) and everything looked fine at a fuel stop, and then on the next run....tread chunking off.

[boondockdad]

I'm no tire engineer (actually, I don't think Goodyear has any either), but when you watch the demonstration video, I could imagine a lot of internal forces in the tire acting to tear it apart- exacerbated by an out of balance condition.

http://youtu.be/skY6qvzpNXI

then again, there are those who say all these 'dynamic wheel balancers' are snake oil... a free standing spinning wheel is quite a bit different from a loaded wheel on suspension, rolling along...

?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Joe,

Two good vid's on the importance of "roadforce" balancing, something I did when I installed the Centramatics.

My rule...do all you can to lessen the risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KvRft422G4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkThA3x_uU

Bob

[slowmover]

I think it's fine-tuning, yes, but I do it first (Centramatics) as I've had no end of wheels lose balance weights.

Now, as to "prevention" it's a different question. Heat kills tires, so "heat reduction" (or heat rise limiting) is as close as I can conceive of a benefit from less "bounce" (as I perceive balance problems).

I like to think tires will last longer with CM's. "Smoother ride" means "less heat", to me.

FCJ, you might check through tire engineer CapriRacer's latest addition to his sit on ST tires.

Barry's Tire Tech

And (like a bunch of us are going to) start over on weights by getting individual wheel weights (not just axle averages) to be sure tires are spec'd properly (with a proper reserve).

www.trucktires.com/bridgestone/us_eng/press/zip/WeighForm.pdf

.

[reinergirl]

Here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective. Any comments from those people more technically inclined would be welcome.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by reinergirl

Here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective. Any comments from those people more technically inclined would be welcome.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm

That's why it's recommend that you r/f balance before installation.
poi.. the closer the weights are to the road (away from center), the more effective they will be.

Bob

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by REDNAX

I think it's fine-tuning, yes, but I do it first (Centramatics) as I've had no end of wheels lose balance weights.

Now, as to "prevention" it's a different question. Heat kills tires, so "heat reduction" (or heat rise limiting) is as close as I can conceive of a benefit from less "bounce" (as I perceive balance problems).

I like to think tires will last longer with CM's. "Smoother ride" means "less heat", to me.

FCJ, you might check through tire engineer CapriRacer's latest addition to his sit on ST tires.

Barry's Tire Tech

And (like a bunch of us are going to) start over on weights by getting individual wheel weights (not just axle averages) to be sure tires are spec'd properly (with a proper reserve).

www.trucktires.com/bridgestone/us_eng/press/zip/WeighForm.pdf

.

Good stuff.

Introduces two new issues:

- there's some debate on whether my TST valve mounted sensors actually give me an accurate tire temp reading.

- both CAT scales near me are built on a raised deck, making offset measurements impossible. Most of the others I've seen have a canopy with stantions midway- making offset on those impossible too... hmm

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by reinergirl

Here's an article on centramatics that I found interesting. It claims that the "special" centramics that are sold for Airstreams (at least the ones with 15 inch wheels) are in fact smaller diameter centramics that are far less effective. Any comments from those people more technically inclined would be welcome.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~tomorkim/Centramatics.htm

I wonder what kind of balance you'd get if you simply had the tire balancer put the centramatic on without any weights on the rim?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

I wonder what kind of balance you'd get if you simply had the tire balancer put the centramatic on without any weights on the rim?

Joe,

IMHO....balance first, BSTS.

Bob

[Moflash]

Sorry to see this but when I saw how many failures there were with Goodyear Marathons I immediately replaced mine (had less than 1000 miles)and upgraded to 16' wheels and Michelin tires.
It is amazing that they still allow theses tires to be sold.When I Googled Goodyear Marathon problems one discription kept coming up repeatably "Catastrophic failure".That was enough for me.
Centramatics can not cure poor build quality in my opinion.

[Chief]

I had Centramatics installed on GYM's and had two belt separations in the heat of the summer. My TPMS saved me from experiencing a catastrophic failure and damage. I have since changed to Maxxis (made in Thailand) "E" rated tires and have not had any problems (knock on wood). Not being a trusting soul of Tire Service Centers, I insisted on ordering the tires with the understanding that I would not accept any over six months old (two of the initial shipment had to be returned to the warehouse). My wife, and I, pulled each tire off the Airstream (one at a time) in the Tire Center parking lot and watched as they were mounted and balanced. I asked the manager how many customers change their own tires, and he said "you're the first" (and he probably thought.....you're also nuts).

Chief

[rodsterinfl]

Hmm. My first foray into the Airstream way was getting tires last month when I picked up my used AS. I took it about 12 miles from the dealer to a tire center before driving 130 miles home. During the process the tire guy started putting the tires back on unbalanced. When I questioned him he told me that they did not balance trailer tires, that there was so much weight it didn't matter. I had to force the issue to get him to raise it back up and balance the side he had already put on. On a side note, he was going to raise the trailer on the water tanks! I had the Tomax tires put on.

[ROBERT CROSS]

rod,

Was it BB Tire Chain, be good to know which one learns their tech's that way.
Way too much can go rong with an unbalanced or out of round tire, and how would they know 'til it's spun?
NOT a good policy.

Bob

[BAB]

So, I have a brand new A/S. I installed 16" Tredit wheels, Michelin LT's, had the wheels and tires road force balanced AND put Centramatics on. When I read/see pictures of someone who's had catastrophic tire failure (and that's what those pictures represent), something is seriously wrong. The legion of reports on this Forum regarding GYM tires from people who are obviously not flakes and who pay attention to all the rules of proper inflation, TV/trailer dynamics, and all the other variables were absolutely persuasive to me that I did not want downside the risk of what might best be called a "marginal" wheel/tire relationship on 7,000 plus pounds of aluminum, my SUV, and more importantly, me, my passengers and those who are on the road at the same time I am.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by finalcutjoe

Good stuff.

Introduces two new issues:

- there's some debate on whether my TST valve mounted sensors actually give me an accurate tire temp reading.

- both CAT scales near me are built on a raised deck, making offset measurements impossible. Most of the others I've seen have a canopy with stanchions midway- making offset on those impossible too... hmm

Yeah, we have to start over from scratch based on latest/best information.

And I have the same problem with scales. There is one where I can do this and they are not happy with civilians. Suggest you check around with landfill, gravel yard and other sources. So long as the scale is accurate within itself I figure that I have better numbers to work with (after checking axle weights on a CAT as reference) even if the scale is not dead-accurate. (Looking for percentage differences). We had a roofing supplier in D/FW that had scales notoriously "short" in weighing big trucks, but what they had would "work" more-or-less.

Same for internal tire temps. Whatever TPMS I wind up with will have internal sensors. There is no perfect, but apparently there is "better".

The CM's (or BALANCE MASTER) are the icing on the cake. Too many big truck O/O's report better tire life where tire break-in is 35-40,000 miles, but annual miles of 100k-plus mean an expensive annual tire budget nonetheless.

I'm feeling the same way about wheels. WELD Racing or other top quality only (such as ALCOA) as China-made isn't floating my boat. I may epoxy the interior to help with air leaks (per a FORD TSB a few years back) and will always spec tire bead sealant besides, not just steel valve stems. Will check the new wheels for run-out, etc. Tires with all the same date code.

Living in a trailer (full-timer) is a different proposition than in being a part-time vacationer. Details matter. But tire problems are never acceptable to any TT owner.

As a final note, wheel alignment should be checked even on a brand-new trailer. Same for brake drag and bearing pre-load (as well as grease); new or used, suspect inadequate or incorrect (as it's all so cheap to rectify). An "unlevel" trailer as well as "normal" hitch rigging also contribute to shortened tire life (higher heat while running the roads).

.

[boondockdad]