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crispyboy · 08-13-2013, 07:06 AM

On August 3rd I was making a pre-trip inspection of various things on the trailer and I decided to make a closer inspection of the tires after reading many of the tire issues on this and other forums.
I jacked up the trailer and was spinning the tires and found an area on the street side front of the trailer tire where it looks like the tread is starting to rip apart. There are two rips approximately 1/8" long and another at least a 1/4" or more. The rips seem to be very deep and don't look to be a result of road rash.
I assume this is the start of tread separation or has the belt let loose?

When looking at the side profile of the tire the second row of tread is higher in this area.
I also found a second tire on the curb side rear that seems to have a slight bulge in the tread and makes it wobble when rolling on the concrete. I didn't trust the remaining two tires for this trip.

The tires are Carlisle ST225/75/R15 D rated, built the 18th week of 2010. They get covered at least 50% of the time, trailer is placed on jack stands in the off season, tires are not weather checked anywhere and have never lost air. Until now I have been pretty satisfied with them except they run warmer than the truck tires.

For our week long trip I borrowed some tires from my sisters travel trailer until I had more time to work on this issue. Interestingly enough two of the borrowed tires were Carlisle E rated and two no-name D rated ST tires. Both sets of tires seem to run very hot on the highway at 65 psi but the Carlisle E rated tires seem to be hotter than the D rated no name tires. Outside ambient temperature was 80 degrees.

While on the trip I stopped at a cat scale to get the axle weight. The trailer was fully loaded with water, groceries, clothes etc... The combined axle weight was #7,260. I tried to get an individual axle weight with only one axle on the pad but the number was skewed due to the slope coming off the scale and only revealed 3,060#. I found a weight ticket from last year and the combined axle weight was 7,360#.

I have been looking at the tire threads here on the forum and tire manufacturer websites and it seems that there are three options.
Option 1: Michelin LTX 15" XL - I like this option but doesn't leave much room for cushion and makes me nervous. The trailer individual GAWR is 4,000# so these tires are right on the bubble for covering the weight rating.
Option 2: 16" upgrade - very expensive......
Option 3: ST tires and cross my fingers......

I plan to visit the local tire shop later this week and see what they think.

What do you think?

Bluto · 08-13-2013, 07:23 AM

Looks like a rubber problem but might be belts as you say. I think that an E rated tire might be right for your application. I run Carlisle's currently and have not seen that type of problem. What is the age of the tires?

crispyboy · 08-13-2013, 07:37 AM

18th week of 2010

airdreamers · 08-13-2013, 07:45 AM

I would definitely not ride on those tires. My suggestion is to call Carlisle. Explain the problem.

When I had an issue with tire wear and a blowout, they requested that I send them the tire to be inspected. They sent me a UPS label for the return. The end result was a full refund of the original tire purchase. I have to assume tire defect.

By the way no cost to me. Good luck.

airdreamers · 08-13-2013, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airdreamers

I would definitely not ride on those tires. My suggestion is to call Carlisle. Explain the problem.

When I had an issue with tire wear and a blowout, they requested that I send them the tire to be inspected. They sent me a UPS label for the return. The end result was a full refund of the original tire purchase. I have to assume tire defect.

By the way no cost to me. Good luck.

By the way they gave me a refund for all 4 tires. Same problem with all.

**jcanavera** · 08-13-2013, 07:48 AM

Consider yourself lucky like me. Here's my two E rated Maxxis ST tires that I caught before they blew on the road. These were off the front axle. The tires next to each are the rear axle tires from the corresponding side of the trailer. They did this on their first trip of season 4 of use. I bit the bullet and went to 16" LT's.

Even though this replacement cost more, and with one prior failure of a Marathon that had a belt failure at the end of year 3 of use, I've come to the conclusion that based on my trailer and its use, ST's will only give me 2-3 years safe service before needing replacement. The cost difference in LT's will come back over the years with longer service life. (based on reports from others on the forum)

Watch for sales and rebates. My Michelins were purchased last year for from Discount Tire Direct for $202 each with an additional $70 rebate from Michelin. Free shipping no sales tax, tires were 6 weeks old from manufacture date. That was about $15 higher than the price for a new Maxxis E rated ST replacement. The Michelin's have gone up this year but I'm assuming the ST's have made a jump also.

I sold my Alcoa wheels via Craigslist and purchased 4 Sendel T03 wheels. Net cost to me for the wheel change out was $60 a wheel which included shipping and no sales tax.

Jack

Bluto · 08-13-2013, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispyboy

18th week of 2010

Amazing!

You are lucky to see this before it turned bad.

I had a defects on my original GYM's at around the 1 year mark, but that was expected with those.

crispyboy · 08-13-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluto

Looks like a rubber problem but might be belts as you say. I think that an E rated tire might be right for your application. I run Carlisle's currently and have not seen that type of problem. What is the age of the tires?

Bluto, I assume you mean going to an E rated trailer tire. I don't this would really help the situation as the D rated trailer tire should be more than enough to handle the weight. Still bugs me that they run so much warmer than the truck tires. I think the original owners manual only called for a C rated tire which seems marginal at best.

aftermath · 08-13-2013, 09:09 AM

Jack,

Help me here. Why are the tires different heights? It looks like they are different sizes. Was this missed when first installed or did something happen to them as you went down the road?

SteveSueMac · 08-13-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispyboy

... Snip...
Option 1: Michelin LTX 15" XL - I like this option but doesn't leave much room for cushion and makes me nervous. The trailer individual GAWR is 4,000# so these tires are right on the bubble for covering the weight rating.
Option 2: 16" upgrade - very expensive......
Option 3: ST tires and cross my fingers......

I plan to visit the local tire shop later this week and see what they think.

What do you think?

I'm not an expert so take my thought process with a large grain of salt.

The 15" Michelins have a sidewall stamped 2183 capacity. If being used on a trailer, DOT requires a 10% derating for 1984/tire.

Are you a double or triple axle? If a double, you're really at the limit. If a triple you're probably fine. The following assumes a double.

4@1984= 7938 max capacity. While your 7260 is within that limit, others here (I believe Capri and possibly Tireman) recommend not going above 85% capacity which on a derated Michelin 15 is 1725/tire or 6900 for 4 tires. If you include that headroom, your 7260 exceeds this limit and you should go with the 16s.

I went with 15s because the derated 10% gives me 7938 max and my trailer's GVWR is 7600 - and, fully loaded except black and gray which I don't travel with is 5880 against a 6900 capacity which leaves more than 15% head room on top of the 10% derating.

You'd need more input from our resident tire engineers regarding the 15% headroom suggestion but it sounds like you'd be too close for the 15s to work for you.

crispyboy · 08-13-2013, 11:28 AM

What you say makes a lot of sense. I forgot about the 85% rule on weight. Hopefully one of the tire engineers will chime in again on this rule.

Pahaska · 08-13-2013, 04:53 PM

I went from E-rated Carlisles to 16" Michelin E-rated. The Michelins run much cooler on the road and give me some peace of mind when it is over 100 degrees here in Texas.

pappy19 · 08-13-2013, 05:12 PM

I have heard almost as many horror stories on Carlile's as I have with Marathons. When it comes to safety, expense is no object IMHO. I also bit the bullet and did the 16" Michelins and Sendel wheels. I had almost new Marathons on my old Alcoa's and the fellow that bought them put them on his 21' car hauler and had 2 flats in 200 miles. Sorry for him but glad it wasn't me. If I were you, I would go for the 16" LT's and be done with the worry.

SteveSueMac · 08-13-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappy19

I had almost new Marathons on my old Alcoa's and the fellow that bought them put them on his 21' car hauler and had 2 flats in 200 miles.

Hmmm - now I'm wondering whether I should even sell the GYMs I just took off the trailer? They were made in nov 2011, have less than 5k on them (new 2012 trailer put on the road this year in April) but I pulled them off having been convinced here that they're not the best long term solution for me. Was thinking of asking $100 for the 4 of them but am now wondering if I should just trash them altogether. I'd hate to think someone would experience the problem I'm trying to avoid....

rmkrum · 08-13-2013, 06:04 PM

...yourself is never a good idea. If something goes wrong with them a sharp lawyer will be all over you for liability claims.

Either trade them in to a tire store, or take a reciprocating saw to cut the beads to make them useless and trash/recycle them appropriately--far safer than taking the risk of something going wrong with them and you getting the bill for damages, etc...

SteveSueMac · 08-13-2013, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmkrum

...yourself is never a good idea. If something goes wrong with them a sharp lawyer will be all over you for liability claims.

Either trade them in to a tire store, or take a reciprocating saw to cut the beads to make them useless and trash/recycle them appropriately--far safer than taking the risk of something going wrong with them and you getting the bill for damages, etc...

Good advice...

Maybe I'll cut them in to drink coasters or patches to use under the stabilizers....

LFC · 08-13-2013, 06:38 PM

Wish I lived close enough to take out your trash...

**jcanavera** · 08-13-2013, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aftermath

Jack,

Help me here. Why are the tires different heights? It looks like they are different sizes. Was this missed when first installed or did something happen to them as you went down the road?

Belts were separating from the tread. As best I guess, the air in the tire works its way between the belts and tread thus causing the tread to rise. Those tires failed within the last 200 miles of a trip. I discovered this when I parked the trailer and went to put my wheel lock between the tandem axle and found that it wouldn't fit. I ram my hand over the tire and realized the had bulged out in the middle of the tread.

Jack

CapriRacer · 08-14-2013, 06:02 AM

OK, doing the math:

Trailer load on tires: 7360#

Average load on each tire: 1840#

Accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation: max load 2116#.

Adding 15% over capacity: 2433#.

So I think your Load Range D tires are OK from that perspective.

But I also think trailer tire ought to be loaded such that they aren't speed restricted to 65 mph. That makes the load 2974#.

So I think you need to moving up to a Load Range E or moving up to a 16".

And is that a plug in the bottom photo? That might be the cause of the tire failure?

PLUS: Is the bulge in one spot or 360° around the tire. If 360°, it's probably not a separation.

crispyboy · 08-14-2013, 06:54 AM

Capri,
Thanks for the analysis but I have a couple of questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

OK, doing the math:

Trailer load on tires: 7360# Correct

Average load on each tire: 1840# Correct

Accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation: max load 2116#. I understand the concept of load variation factor but how do you come up with 2116#?

Adding 15% over capacity: 2433#. This figure seems to be load variation plus 15%. Is this a typical engineering safety factor for all tires or ST tires?

So I think your Load Range D tires are OK from that perspective.

But I also think trailer tire ought to be loaded such that they aren't speed restricted to 65 mph. That makes the load 2974#. Yes there are times when more speed is needed but no more than 70. If I installed load range E ST tires could I run up to 70 mph since the rating is much higher than actually needed?
I think you need to moving up to a Load Range E or moving up to a 16". This puts the nail in the coffin for the Michelin XL 15" tire.

And is that a plug in the bottom photo? That might be the cause of the tire failure? There are no plugs, I drive around curbs, not over them and the tires have been great until now - never loose air but do get warm on the highway.

PLUS: Is the bulge in one spot or 360° around the tire. If 360°, it's probably not a separation. The bulge is in one spot.

Yesterday on a lark I called Carlisle tire customer service to ask them about what I have found on the tire. They put me through to the warranty department and opened a claim form. They were interested in my story and requested many pictures of what I found and will forward them onto their engineer. I'll let you know of the response I get. I'm really not expecting much from the phone call since the tires are one year out of warranty but I've got my fingers crossed they may throw me a bone.