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Old 08-13-2013, 07:04 PM   #15
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IMHO, selling old tires...

...yourself is never a good idea. If something goes wrong with them a sharp lawyer will be all over you for liability claims.

Either trade them in to a tire store, or take a reciprocating saw to cut the beads to make them useless and trash/recycle them appropriately--far safer than taking the risk of something going wrong with them and you getting the bill for damages, etc...
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum View Post
...yourself is never a good idea. If something goes wrong with them a sharp lawyer will be all over you for liability claims.

Either trade them in to a tire store, or take a reciprocating saw to cut the beads to make them useless and trash/recycle them appropriately--far safer than taking the risk of something going wrong with them and you getting the bill for damages, etc...
Good advice...

Maybe I'll cut them in to drink coasters or patches to use under the stabilizers....
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:38 PM   #17
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Wish I lived close enough to take out your trash...
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by aftermath View Post
Jack,

Help me here. Why are the tires different heights? It looks like they are different sizes. Was this missed when first installed or did something happen to them as you went down the road?
Belts were separating from the tread. As best I guess, the air in the tire works its way between the belts and tread thus causing the tread to rise. Those tires failed within the last 200 miles of a trip. I discovered this when I parked the trailer and went to put my wheel lock between the tandem axle and found that it wouldn't fit. I ram my hand over the tire and realized the had bulged out in the middle of the tread.

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Old 08-14-2013, 07:02 AM   #19
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OK, doing the math:

Trailer load on tires: 7360#

Average load on each tire: 1840#

Accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation: max load 2116#.

Adding 15% over capacity: 2433#.

So I think your Load Range D tires are OK from that perspective.

But I also think trailer tire ought to be loaded such that they aren't speed restricted to 65 mph. That makes the load 2974#.

So I think you need to moving up to a Load Range E or moving up to a 16".

And is that a plug in the bottom photo? That might be the cause of the tire failure?

PLUS: Is the bulge in one spot or 360 around the tire. If 360, it's probably not a separation.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:54 AM   #20
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Capri,
Thanks for the analysis but I have a couple of questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
OK, doing the math:

Trailer load on tires: 7360# Correct

Average load on each tire: 1840# Correct

Accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation: max load 2116#. I understand the concept of load variation factor but how do you come up with 2116#?

Adding 15% over capacity: 2433#. This figure seems to be load variation plus 15%. Is this a typical engineering safety factor for all tires or ST tires?

So I think your Load Range D tires are OK from that perspective.

But I also think trailer tire ought to be loaded such that they aren't speed restricted to 65 mph. That makes the load 2974#. Yes there are times when more speed is needed but no more than 70. If I installed load range E ST tires could I run up to 70 mph since the rating is much higher than actually needed?
I think you need to moving up to a Load Range E or moving up to a 16". This puts the nail in the coffin for the Michelin XL 15" tire.

And is that a plug in the bottom photo? That might be the cause of the tire failure? There are no plugs, I drive around curbs, not over them and the tires have been great until now - never loose air but do get warm on the highway.

PLUS: Is the bulge in one spot or 360 around the tire. If 360, it's probably not a separation. The bulge is in one spot.
Yesterday on a lark I called Carlisle tire customer service to ask them about what I have found on the tire. They put me through to the warranty department and opened a claim form. They were interested in my story and requested many pictures of what I found and will forward them onto their engineer. I'll let you know of the response I get. I'm really not expecting much from the phone call since the tires are one year out of warranty but I've got my fingers crossed they may throw me a bone.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:36 PM   #21
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Update! Update!

I opened my email tonight and I had already received a response from Carlisle.

Good afternoon, Mr. Broering:

I have been authorized to send replacement tires. I will be shipping 4 ST225/75R15-D RTrl RH tires to you. These tires are a new product, I have been advised, that are more heat resistant and more accepting of the challenges of long road travel.

I will place the order tomorrow morning for shipment to be released on 8/19.

I will send you a confirmation email advising of the estimated delivery date.

Thank you,


I truly wasn't expecting anything from Carlisle as I called them just to discuss these tires. Maybe I should purchase a lottery ticket tomorrow!
It's funny how simple things in life can make you happy - the wife and I danced around the kitchen table with the news on the tires.

Capri-
I hope you will still address a few of the above questions as I have a feeling I will be going through this exercise again in 3 years.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
I opened my email tonight and I had already received a response from Carlisle.

Good afternoon, Mr. Broering:

I have been authorized to send replacement tires. I will be shipping 4 ST225/75R15-D RTrl RH tires to you. These tires are a new product, I have been advised, that are more heat resistant and more accepting of the challenges of long road travel.

I will place the order tomorrow morning for shipment to be released on 8/19.

I will send you a confirmation email advising of the estimated delivery date.

Thank you,
.
Interesting that there are two comments that say a lot to me. "More heat resistant" and "more accepting of the challenges of long road travel". It says a lot to why many of us are forgoing ST tires for LT's.

I'm glad these folks are stepping up to the plate but it just confirms maybe that these tires as a class, are missing the mark.

Jack
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:05 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcanavera View Post

I'm glad these folks are stepping up to the plate but it just confirms maybe that these tires as a class, are missing the mark.

Jack
Maybe (hopefully? ) manufacturers are addressing the challenges with STs and making them better?

I dunno....I jumped on the LT wagon too :-/

Congrats on the new set of tires, Crispy!! :-)
Nice surprise since you said they were a year out of warranty. Happy trails!!
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Old 08-15-2013, 05:28 AM   #24
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hey crispy, i hope you have a BIG mailbox! keep us posted on the performance of the new tires.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
Capri,
Thanks for the analysis but I have a couple of questions.

OK, doing the math:

Trailer load on tires: 7360# Correct

Average load on each tire: 1840# Correct

Accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation: max load 2116#. I understand the concept of load variation factor but how do you come up with 2116#?........
I added 15%. I only have a limited amount of data to support this, but this value seems to be a bit high, but within reason.

Quote:
.........Adding 15% over capacity: 2433#. This figure seems to be load variation plus 15%. Is this a typical engineering safety factor for all tires or ST tires?

No, this is a 15% over-capacity. I think it makes good engineering sense
to over-specify. Other apparently do too, as I note that most major vehicle manufacturers increased tire sizing shortly after the Ford/Firestone thing a few years back.

Note: They also increased the speed rating specified.
Quote:
............So I think your Load Range D tires are OK from that perspective.

But I also think trailer tire ought to be loaded such that they aren't speed restricted to 65 mph. That makes the load 2974#. Yes there are times when more speed is needed but no more than 70. If I installed load range E ST tires could I run up to 70 mph since the rating is much higher than actually needed?...........
Yes, but if you want 85 mph, you'll need to go to the 16"

Quote:
.........But I think you need to moving up to a Load Range E or moving up to a 16". This puts the nail in the coffin for the Michelin XL 15" tire....
Which is why I did that.
Quote:
......And is that a plug in the bottom photo? That might be the cause of the tire failure? There are no plugs, I drive around curbs, not over them and the tires have been great until now - never loose air but do get warm on the highway.

PLUS: Is the bulge in one spot or 360 around the tire. If 360, it's probably not a separation. The bulge is in one spot.....
Then that is likely a separation.

Quote:
.......Yesterday on a lark I called Carlisle tire customer service to ask them about what I have found on the tire. They put me through to the warranty department and opened a claim form. They were interested in my story and requested many pictures of what I found and will forward them onto their engineer. I'll let you know of the response I get. I'm really not expecting much from the phone call since the tires are one year out of warranty but I've got my fingers crossed they may throw me a bone.
2 thoughts:

1) Did you file a report with NHTSA? The only way the Federal Government is going to get involved is if there are plenty of reports.

2) Did Carlisle ask to see the tire? Without examining the tire, then sending you a replacement set is just a goodwill gesture.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:05 AM   #26
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I had a blowout on carliles too. Also 225 75's ST's. my blowout was in 2012. Leas than 10k. On my globetrotter! Well under rating. I had need going 45 mph and just left home 30 minutes prior.

The tires were new in 2010. Installed in summer 2010. Tire blew sept 2012 just out of warranty. Will never buy carliles again. I'm running Michelin LTX 235 75 15 LTs now.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:17 AM   #27
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I would take those new ST's and trade them in on new 16" Michelin LT's, easy credit.

Pap
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
I opened my email tonight and I had already received a response from Carlisle.

Good afternoon, Mr. Broering:

I have been authorized to send replacement tires. I will be shipping 4 ST225/75R15-D RTrl RH tires to you. These tires are a new product, I have been advised, that are more heat resistant and more accepting of the challenges of long road travel.

I will place the order tomorrow morning for shipment to be released on 8/19.

I will send you a confirmation email advising of the estimated delivery date.

Thank you,


I truly wasn't expecting anything from Carlisle as I called them just to discuss these tires. Maybe I should purchase a lottery ticket tomorrow!
It's funny how simple things in life can make you happy - the wife and I danced around the kitchen table with the news on the tires.

Capri-
I hope you will still address a few of the above questions as I have a feeling I will be going through this exercise again in 3 years.

I wasn't sure it you were going to respond to my post but I guess you did contact Carlisle after all. I glad it worked out for you!
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