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Old 08-01-2013, 04:09 PM   #113
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i ordered my new AS 30' flying cloud bunkhouse with the EB wheels/tires after reading all the analysis here...and I like the look of em too

My only concern is a "stiffer ride" and jocyling things around more...is that a valid concern?
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:14 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PharmGeek View Post
i ordered my new AS 30' flying cloud bunkhouse with the EB wheels/tires after reading all the analysis here...and I like the look of em too

My only concern is a "stiffer ride" and jocyling things around more...is that a valid concern?
We have been running the 16" wheels with the Michelin LTX tires almost 2 years at between 75 to 80 psi (at 80 right now). No issues with stiffer ride.

What we did find causing a stiff ride were the 1200 pound weight distribution bars sold by an Airstream dealer to the previous owner of my trailer (Reese hitch). They caused a couple of rivets to pop out of the inside. I replaced them with 800 pound bars and now enjoy a smooth ride. Interesting that same dealer insisted 1200 pound bars were appropriate for my vehicle (3/4 ton truck) when I was talking to him about buying a new Airstream. I've usually found better answers to questions on Airforums than at the dealers.

You will run into rough washboard highways which will jostle things around in your trailer no matter what tires and hitch configuration you have. As a result you should always use caution in packing. Avoid glass containers if at all possible and if you do have them make sure they are padded, inside boxes and close to the floor. Keep heavy items close to the floor. Liquids close to the floor. We pack many things in plastic boxes, with securely fastening lids, before stowing away. If something leaks it will leak inside the box, not on the floor of your trailer. Wine bottles we pack in a plastic wine crate (available at Container Store). The under bed storage area is a great place to secure heavy items, breakables and liquids in plastic containers.

The thick cushioned plastic shelf liner material you can buy at home improvement and other stores is great for cutting up and using to protect glass jars and other glass items. Cut the piece to size, roll it around the glass item, and use rubber bands to secure. Use the kind that looks like a thick screen so it will breathe and not mold if something is packed for a while in damp weather. This packing material can be reused indefinitely.

Do a triple check on all of your cabinets, doors and refrigerator before you pull away from a campsite to make sure everything is secure. Let your spouse do it independently, you do it independently, and then do it together. Having a checklist is very helpful for both setting up and breaking down camp. There are checklists published at various places on the web. Use one of these in the beginning and then add or delete from it according you your specific needs. A few minutes running down the checklist will contribute greatly to your safety as well as prevent damage.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:49 AM   #115
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But, Jack, I've done the math, and I think even the Load Range E's are marginal for fatigue. I think you need to go up another step.

We're now in the depths of summer. Heat indexes 15F higher than the ambient 95-100F . . my brain isn't parsing this too well, Barry. The context on fatigue is appreciated, but . . . .

.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:16 AM   #116
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The Centramatics eliminated the need to balance the Gold Wing motorcycle wheels with weights that occasionally fell off. After five feet of movement, the wheels and hub are perfectly balanced together. These are small wheels compared to the Airstream.

Going to the Centramatics website, (Balancers - Centramatic) one can see sizes for even the largest truck tires.

The very first entry in their model listing is for the Airstream, part 200-221 Special.

I installed them on the current Airstream and two sets just arrived for the Dodge pickup and the Airstream to be built in January.

The wheels on these larger vehicles need to be balanced in the usual manner. The Centramtic helps to balance the wheel and the hub to which it is attached.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:56 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
I think what Discount Tire was trying to say was that after 3 years of use, approximately 1/3 of the tire's fatigue life is used up.

But, Jack, I've done the math, and I think even the Load Range E's are marginal for fatigue. I think you need to go up another step.
You threw me for a loop on your comment on E rated tires. So are we saying that a 16" LT Michelin has a higher fatigue level than say an E rated ST? But in either case, you have concerns whether an E rated tire, no matter ST or LT is lacking?

Again with my D rated ST failing at the end of year three and then 2 E's failing at the beginning of season 4, does the answer lie in fatigue? It would seem that the weight many of us carry seems to be a major contributing factor in accelerating fatigue.

Jack
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #118
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It would seem that the weight many of us carry seems to be a major contributing factor in accelerating fatigue.

Jack
Hijack alert: this is what my Dr. Tells me. :-(
:-)

Back to the real discussion ...
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:38 AM   #119
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Hijack alert: this is what my Dr. Tells me. :-(
:-)

Back to the real discussion ...
Ha!
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Old 08-02-2013, 05:36 PM   #120
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Going to the Centramatics website, (Balancers - Centramatic) one can see sizes for even the largest truck tires.

The very first entry in their model listing is for the Airstream, part 200-221 Special.
We know.

We explained to them why they should be "special" a couple of years ago, since they did not have one that would fit the Airstream trailers, "PROPERLY"..

Andy
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:36 PM   #121
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First, it is true.

Why? I traced this back to the introduction of P metric tires in the 1960's. The very first appearance of this note coincides with the first appearance of the P metric load table in the Tire and Rim Association yearbook.

An educated guess on my part is that "trucks" are different than "cars" by the fact that the suspensions on "cars" are much softer than they are on "trucks". This means the tires on "cars" don't have to absorb as much road input as the tires on "trucks".

A principle of tires is that load carrying capacity is a function of the size of the tire (its physical dimensions), the inflation pressure, the operating speed AND the roughness of the road surface. While that last one only seems to apply to specialty tires, I think that was the rationale behind the derating.

I put the words "cars" and "trucks" in quoted because it is getting harder and harder to distinguish the boundary between the 2. Is an SUV a "truck". How about a van? And remember, the note was first applied in the 1960's where the difference is much clearer.

I don't think I have to explain why a trailer is considered more like a "truck" than a "car".

The rule is applicable to "multi-purpose passenger vehicle, truck, bus, or trailer". I think that first entry means vans.
As an official "old fart" I can add a couple details.
In the beginning there were passenger cars and there were trucks. The expected service (including % time at or near max load) was tougher with trucks so they had different standards.
The introduction of "multipurpose passenger vehicles or "Station Wagone was the first de-rating of passenger tires since the % load was higher.
All was good till SUV's were introduced which were more like derated trucks than uprated cars. These also required derating of passenger tires.
As Capri says today things are a mess as we have "crossover" vehicles etc. but no station wagons as in the good old days.

The 1.1 de-rating factor is in my 1975 TRA yearbook.

Interesting side note the "strongest" ST type tire back then was an 8.85-15ST that was rated for a Max of 1920# at 50 psi
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:23 AM   #122
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You threw me for a loop on your comment on E rated tires. So are we saying that a 16" LT Michelin has a higher fatigue level than say an E rated ST? But in either case, you have concerns whether an E rated tire, no matter ST or LT is lacking?

Again with my D rated ST failing at the end of year three and then 2 E's failing at the beginning of season 4, does the answer lie in fatigue? It would seem that the weight many of us carry seems to be a major contributing factor in accelerating fatigue.

Jack
You have to be careful here. Because size plays a huge role in load carrying capacity, and because LT's and ST's are rated for load carrying capacity in different ways, it becomes confusing.

So you have to be very specific when you're talking about loads on tires.

I'm assuming your vehicle has ST225/75R15 Load Range E's on it. That means the load carrying capacity is 2540# at 65 psi and 2830# at 80 psi.

If I have calculated correctly, your vehicle has a maximum estimated tire load of 2444#. That means the Load Range D's were barely adequate, and the Load Range E are better - BUT - you are completely restricted to 65 mph max. If I factor in 85 mph, the tire has to have a minimum of 2957# - and that is what I was referring to.
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #123
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You have to be careful here. Because size plays a huge role in load carrying capacity, and because LT's and ST's are rated for load carrying capacity in different ways, it becomes confusing.

So you have to be very specific when you're talking about loads on tires.

I'm assuming your vehicle has ST225/75R15 Load Range E's on it. That means the load carrying capacity is 2540# at 65 psi and 2830# at 80 psi.

If I have calculated correctly, your vehicle has a maximum estimated tire load of 2444#. That means the Load Range D's were barely adequate, and the Load Range E are better - BUT - you are completely restricted to 65 mph max. If I factor in 85 mph, the tire has to have a minimum of 2957# - and that is what I was referring to.
Noe I'm getting confused by your followup Capri. I can only assume you are referring to the fact that Jack "used to run" LR D and then LR E ST tires. In his post 87 he describes the issues he "had" with failed ST tires. Capri, you may in fact be correct that part of his issue regarding failing load range E ST tires was that he was still close to an overload situation for the tire, but the bottom line is that his vehicle ( trailer ) "no longer has" LR E ST tires on it. He has moved on to LT tires on his trailer, and at least so far has had no LT tire failures.
Jack, correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Just trying to keep this clear for the benefit of some folks that might be new to the discussion who may not have followed the entire thread.

Good discussion. Glad to hear some well thought out responses, ideas and real world experiences.

george
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:57 AM   #124
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The ordered five 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels arrived at the local Discount Tire yesterday. The Centramatics are here as well for both the Dodge pickup and the Airstream and the McGard lug nuts are here.

I received the trailer build and completion dates (9 January to 15 January 2014) yesterday along with the VIN number for our 2014 27FB Classic with twin beds. I will be at Jackson Center to photograph the entire build process of our trailer.

I plan to order the five Michelin LT 225/75R16E LTX M/S2 to arrive the week before the ETA of the trailer to have the freshest ones possible to start out with on the trailer.

All these forum tire thread discussions have reinforced my decision to retire the GYM ST tires (and thus the smaller wheels) before use and go with the Michelins.

YMMV
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:27 AM   #125
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Noe I'm getting confused by your followup Capri. I can only assume you are referring to the fact that Jack "used to run" LR D and then LR E ST tires. In his post 87 he describes the issues he "had" with failed ST tires. Capri, you may in fact be correct that part of his issue regarding failing load range E ST tires was that he was still close to an overload situation for the tire, but the bottom line is that his vehicle ( trailer ) "no longer has" LR E ST tires on it. He has moved on to LT tires on his trailer, and at least so far has had no LT tire failures.
Jack, correct me if I am wrong on any of this. Just trying to keep this clear for the benefit of some folks that might be new to the discussion who may not have followed the entire thread.

Good discussion. Glad to hear some well thought out responses, ideas and real world experiences.

george
Correct my original failure was the ST D rated 225 75R 15 Marathon, inflation 65 psi. The two tires that failed next were ST E rated 225 75R 15 Maxxis inflation 80 psi.

Currently I using the LT E ratedMichelin 225 75R 16 inflation 80 psi. No failures as of now but I just am on one year of use. The Goodyear failed on my last tow of its 3rd season. The 2 Maxxis tires failed on their first tow of season 4.

Jack
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:32 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
You have to be careful here. Because size plays a huge role in load carrying capacity, and because LT's and ST's are rated for load carrying capacity in different ways, it becomes confusing.

So you have to be very specific when you're talking about loads on tires.

I'm assuming your vehicle has ST225/75R15 Load Range E's on it. That means the load carrying capacity is 2540# at 65 psi and 2830# at 80 psi.

If I have calculated correctly, your vehicle has a maximum estimated tire load of 2444#. That means the Load Range D's were barely adequate, and the Load Range E are better - BUT - you are completely restricted to 65 mph max. If I factor in 85 mph, the tire has to have a minimum of 2957# - and that is what I was referring to.
I tow around 60 with some peaks of 65. So 85 mph isn't anywhere in my plans. My tow vehicle eats enough gas as it is. Its sweet spot for fuel economy is between 55 and 60 when towing.

Jack
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