Airstream Tire Failure Poll

[Buttercup]

Poll submitted for my blowout. I did learn that there IS a warranty for the wheel - but you have to present it to the company for replacement and of course I no longer have that tire. I found the warranty on TireRack's web site. You can see it HERE.
I had the tires installed initially at Big O and had them removed from the stock rims and put on my new rims a few weeks before leaving on our trip this summer, again at Big O.

[genearnold]

In September, 2011, after pulling two Airstreams a total of twenty-eight years, I had my first tire failure. I was within fifty miles of my destination on my move from Boise, ID to Grand Island, NE when a semi-truck driver lagged me down. I had thought I may have done something stupid that made him angry so was apprehensive when I stopped. However, he was a Good Samaritan who saw what I could neither hear nor feel. The tire was curbside front on my triple axle Limited. Had a four inch tear on the aluminum just ahead of the tire well. I can't, in good conscience blame the tire maker.

1. Tires were too old for safety – about seven years old.

2. Trailer was carrying some possessions (mostly in front) that didn't fit in the semi-trailer I hired for the move. This could have overloaded the front axle.

3. Occurred in mid afternoon of a very hot, sunny, day.

Since the tire was shredded I don't know whether or not the failure was due to the tire's age or a foreign object on the road.

I recently sold the trailer “as-is” without repairing the slight body damage (other than a quick-fix consisting of a backing piece fashioned from an old license plate and three pop rivets).

[genearnold]

RE Post #62-- I got this from who I think may be an administrator,

It appears you previously completed this poll. If so, this site does not allow you to update/edit previous entry. Would appreciate it if you could provide details on tire in these photos. Thanks!

The tire was a Towmaster, 225X15, and was purchased from a Big O outlet in Boise. As stated it was about seven years old.

[Phoenix]

Sorry, that note was from me, sent via the "Thanks" quick message box.

I thought others would be interested in the details of your tire failure, since you posted photos. However, I noticed that you had previously completed the poll, indicating that you had NOT had a tire failure in the previous five years; and I knew you couldn't add a second entry regarding this latest blowout, so I sent you the message, above. (By the way, I am not an administrator; I'm just another member.)

Thanks for adding this information.

--Phoenix

[switz]

I responded no to "would you buy this tire again" for two reasons.

1. In October, we traded the 2013 25FB International Serenity with the five Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires we installed (JAN 2013) as soon as I got that unit home and read the forum on GYM tire issues.

2. Our ordered 2014 Classic Model 30 was too heavy for the tires captioned in item 1 above. We have ordered the 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels and Michelin LT 225/75R16E LTX M/S2 tires and they will be mounted with a Dill 1506-453 TPMS and installed with Centramatic model 300-356 (all "A" plates for 16" wheels) wheel balancers. I will use the suggested McGard lug nuts recommended on the forum.

I had no issues with the 15" Michelins and they did NOT loose air while in storage. One had to be replaced due to a nail at the edge of the tread which is a non-repairable road hazard injury to the tire.

[blkmagikca]

Here is another failure. I reported a previous failure last year. This tire was just 2 years old (date code 1216), Goodyear Marathon purchased at JC. I had been using a TPMS system which has the sensors in the valve caps - unfortunately, the battery contacts of this type of sensor have been unreliable for the past year, necessitating constant cleaning of the batteries and pushing the contacts down with a ball point pen (as was shown to me by the TPMS vendor). The TPMS sensor did not trigger any alarm, and I was flagged by a passing motorist about the failure.

Besides the damage to the tire, there was some damage to the wheel well of my Excella, although the rim was not damaged at all. I have an appointment at JC to repair the wheel well.

The tire shop where I purchased a replacement tire was of the opinion that I had had a puncture while driving, and the loss of air pressure caused the tire to flatten and the rim to cut the tread off the tire. I have ordered a new TPMS system where the sensors are mounted inside the tire like the OEM units; these have a hard-wired battery that has a 5-year life (after which the sensor needs to be replaced, as $50 each).

[dznf0g]

This happened to my Bro-in-Law this past weekend:



Although I wasn't there to see in person, at first glance at the photo, I immediately thought "tread separation". The tech said it looked like a slice in a portion of the split, and I do find it odd that it "separated" in a smiley face. We'll probably never know.

2012 30' Classic with about 15K on it. Original tires. Lightly loaded, but never been on scales.

Fortunately, TPMS gave ample warning of impending doom.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

......Fortunately, TPMS gave ample warning of impending doom.

I speculated in another thread that this failure was road hazard related because it was so isolated. The loss of pressure is now confirmation.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Tires get blamed for many things, such as "failures".

Yet, how many of those failures is not the fault of the tire, but the fault of the owner.

Tires are tires, and always will be.

All to many owners feel that a tire should take care of itself. WRONG!!!

All to many times, due to an owners negligence, tires fail because of improper or total lack of balancing.

A bouncing tire, very quickly, develops hot spots.

That IN ITSELF causes separation.

Balancing, means TIRE, WHEEL, HUB AND DRUM.

There is zero exception as to what should be done.

Granted, not many shops can balance the complete assembly, and many think all hub and drums are ok. WRONG AGAIN.

Fortunately, there is an easy fix, for those who want to do the best.

There is more than one brand of balancer that can be added to the drum, which takes care of the balancing issue, within reason. As an example, old drums, like in the 60 and 70's can be as much as 3 pounds, yes, three pounds out of balance. The only cure for that situation is to replace the drums, especially when replacing the axles. Newer drums are now one piece, and machined reasonably well. They still are not perfect, but close enough so that the add-on wheel balancers will easily take care of it.

Taking proper care of tires, most always, will be very rewarding, and make towing an Airstream, even more pleasurable.

Yes, those add-on balancers are not cheap, but they are not expensive either. With most of them, as soon as you hit 20 to 25 MPH, they automatically balance the running gear, AND, keep up with the tire wear. Saves a lot of head scratching.clap:

Andy

[Phoenix]

Note: The information below is re-posted on the behalf of AirForums member "Gecko".

===========

Our home base is Los Angeles. We take two large trips each year-the first to South Texas, through AZ and NM, and the second northbound, with first stop in NoCal and second in Hood River, OR. Here we can see extreme temps in late summer, but not usually more than high 90's, and we see 7% grades all the time. TV was a 2500 Suburban, replaced with a 3500 Sprinter. We use the same Equalizr 4 pt with both vehicles. We have a heavy tongue weight due to 4 large AGM batteries--two in the original position, built up 1/2 inch to accommodate, and the other two on the left side forward under couch near inverter and circuit breakers on our 28' International 2009.

Incident #1
TV Suburban, Goodyear marathon, front left, 65 psi recommended and maintained, new from dealer, not sure of balance method. 3.5 years of use (was going to replace in two months along with the whole set of originals and spare). Interstates, highways, back roads, and very little off road--dirt roads primarily, for distances under 1/2 mile. Stored on asphalt in winter. Approx mileage at time of failure--25K. Complete tread separation, no damage to Airstream (phew!), Autoclub so free roadside service. All tires replaced at nearby Les Schwab (Bend, OR) with their 10 ply Towmax as that was the best they had in stock. (Had requested Michelins, relatively ignorant, didn't know we'd need 16" wheels.")

2nd incident
Towmark, again left front. (Suspecting heavy battery weight now.) When pulling out of gas station, my wife noticed a bubble in the sidewall near tread in her side view. Fortunately, there was a tire place next door who changed it our for us before blowout, and a Les Schwab about 20 miles away. 80 psi max, ran at about 75 psi. 2 years old, about 14K miles. They warranteed, and also warranted another tire that they said was problematic (don't remember where it was). Total cost about $100. No damage, of course.

Currently thinking about (a) relocating batteries and (b) possibly changing up to 16" and Michelins for added safety, too.

Your thoughts would be appreciated, as well as any recommendation for a reputable source in Southern California for new wheels and tires. We do need to do something about our tongue weight. I am concerned that moving all four batteries aft (under the foot of our bed) will use up our little storage space and while taking 320 lbs off the front of the trailer, will move the same 320 for more trailer sway--effectively a 640 lb shift!

Our current tongue weight was measured by dealer last year at 1260 lbs, which is clearly over the 1095 15% max, so a 320lb shift aft should be OK for trailer sway while obviously taking load off the hitch, load leveling, and front trailer tires, particularly the left side with the extra weight there.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Note: The information below is re-posted on the behalf of AirForums member "Gecko".

===========

Our home base is Los Angeles. We take two large trips each year-the first to South Texas, through AZ and NM, and the second northbound, with first stop in NoCal and second in Hood River, OR. Here we can see extreme temps in late summer, but not usually more than high 90's, and we see 7% grades all the time. TV was a 2500 Suburban, replaced with a 3500 Sprinter. We use the same Equalizr 4 pt with both vehicles. We have a heavy tongue weight due to 4 large AGM batteries--two in the original position, built up 1/2 inch to accommodate, and the other two on the left side forward under couch near inverter and circuit breakers on our 28' International 2009.

Incident #1
TV Suburban, Goodyear marathon, front left, 65 psi recommended and maintained, new from dealer, not sure of balance method. 3.5 years of use (was going to replace in two months along with the whole set of originals and spare). Interstates, highways, back roads, and very little off road--dirt roads primarily, for distances under 1/2 mile. Stored on asphalt in winter. Approx mileage at time of failure--25K. Complete tread separation, no damage to Airstream (phew!), Autoclub so free roadside service. All tires replaced at nearby Les Schwab (Bend, OR) with their 10 ply Towmax as that was the best they had in stock. (Had requested Michelins, relatively ignorant, didn't know we'd need 16" wheels.")

2nd incident
Towmark, again left front. (Suspecting heavy battery weight now.) When pulling out of gas station, my wife noticed a bubble in the sidewall near tread in her side view. Fortunately, there was a tire place next door who changed it our for us before blowout, and a Les Schwab about 20 miles away. 80 psi max, ran at about 75 psi. 2 years old, about 14K miles. They warranteed, and also warranted another tire that they said was problematic (don't remember where it was). Total cost about $100. No damage, of course.

Currently thinking about (a) relocating batteries and (b) possibly changing up to 16" and Michelins for added safety, too.

Your thoughts would be appreciated, as well as any recommendation for a reputable source in Southern California for new wheels and tires. We do need to do something about our tongue weight. I am concerned that moving all four batteries aft (under the foot of our bed) will use up our little storage space and while taking 320 lbs off the front of the trailer, will move the same 320 for more trailer sway--effectively a 640 lb shift!

Our current tongue weight was measured by dealer last year at 1260 lbs, which is clearly over the 1095 15% max, so a 320lb shift aft should be OK for trailer sway while obviously taking load off the hitch, load leveling, and front trailer tires, particularly the left side with the extra weight there.

Suggestions?

First, weigh the trailer. I suspect that already has been done. I recommend that the load on the tires be no more than 85% of the load carrying capacity of the tire (accounting for side to side and front to rear load variation AND the inflation pressure actually in use.)

Second, speed isn't mentioned. If towing faster than 65 mph, then the load on the tires needs to be reduced even further beyond the 85% I recommended.

[switz]

I have weighed both our 25FB and our 31' Classic on my individual wheel scales.

In the 25FB situation, the right rear weight was 200 pounds heavier that the others. I chatted with another chap in Texas and his 25FB "eats" right rear tires quicker than the others. We wondered why this was a common trait.

The Classic before our modifications had a similar weighing situation.

From hours of reading this forum before buying the first Airstream and especially the tire related threads, we converted the 25FB to the Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires as soon as we got her home and ran 44 psi in the tires. We had a derated 7,940 pounds of tire load capacity attached to the two 3,700 pound load rated each axles. Crossing the scales when loaded for camping, the trailer axles were carrying 5,860 pounds. We had plenty of reserve tire load capacity.

The "images" under my avatar show photos of the stock GYM ST225/75R15D tire beside the 15" Michelin tire and the Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire we installed on the Classic on the 16" SenDel T03-66655T aluminum wheels (each wheel rated 3,580 pounds at 80 psi). The Classic spare tire is mounted on a galvanized steel SenDel S62-66655TG wheel rated at 3,500 pounds at 80 psi.

The four 16" Michelins have a load rating of 10,720 pounds and are attached to two axles, each rated 5,000 pounds.

The trailers were/are stored under roof and the tires have a cover for sunlight protection. There is a piece of particle board under the tires to keep them off the asphalt. We have the Dill #1506 TPMS system installed to monitor things on the trailer tires.

BTW. When getting the TPMS system installed, make sure the installer notes which sender letter is in each wheel or otherwise there is a major problem getting the right receiver chip in the correct location. We had to break the tires down to get that information and then re-balance them.

Also, as a pre-drive check, use a tire valve tool to be sure the tire valve is fully seated in the valve stem. We have found that the technician did not fully seat one tire valve which created a slow leak.

Other than a road hazard screw in the corned of the tread, we have had no tire issues with our Michelin tires. We are based in the Phoenix area.

[slowmover]

Switz, did you weigh at wheel position both with and without WD applied on your scales?

CapriRacer, so if I wish to run 65+ on a Texas summer day I ought to aim at 80% or less of rated capacity given full sidewall pressure?

Is there a relation also to the tires on the truck doing the towing?

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Switz, did you weigh at wheel position both with and without WD applied on your scales?

CapriRacer, so if I wish to run 65+ on a Texas summer day I ought to aim at 80% or less of rated capacity given full sidewall pressure?

Is there a relation also to the tires on the truck doing the towing?

I tend to think of this the other way - that the tire's load carrying capacity ought to be no less than 115% of the max load on an individual tire.

And yes, that applies to the tow vehicle as well. I think you will see (if you do the math), that the tow vehicle manufacturer has already sized the tires that way - so usually the tow vehicle isn't a problem. Trailers on the other hand ........

[slowmover]

Thank you

[switz]

The trailers were weighed detached with scales under each tire and the jack stand.

[hhendrix]

TowMax failure on the way to the balloon festival in 2014. Two front tires were little older than the rears. The rears were wearing faster than the fronts. Axel weights were very close to the same. Now I rotate the tires every 5K miles. I'm saving for 16" rims and Michelins.

[JimGolden]

This looks to me to be a very thorough and well thought out poll.

Good job Phoenix!

Unfortunately, I didn't have much to offer you....as I've never had a blowout.

I run 235/75-15 D-rated tires. Six of them. At 60psi. Floats like a butterfly with this setting. I run Maxxis UE-168's which are rated as both ST and LT as a Commercial tire.

They are approaching the age where we usually replace them. I'm considering going to 16" or 17" wheels (17 is preferred by me if they will fit...but doubt it) and then BFG or Michelin.

But, I've had such success with these Maxxis tires over the past 7 years and 25,000 miles that it makes a good case to just buy another set of them.

Best of luck to you all, and see you on the road,

[slowmover]

JG, replace the spring equalizers with Dexter or Mor/Ryde. Should raise trailer just barely (and better ride + greater wheel travel).

But with your wheel loads even at max, the Yokohama RY215 is a premium choice with far more than enough load reserve in 7R-15. I had them on one Silver Streak.

9500lb TT needing 1600-lbs plus 15% reserve is 1800+. The RY is at 2000. Add a set of Centramatics.

Check wheel load rating. If they're 1800 Id not sweat it. If you've got room then the Bstone 250 is worth a look in 16.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by hhendrix

TowMax failure on the way to the balloon festival in 2014. Two front tires were little older than the rears. The rears were wearing faster than the fronts. Axel weights were very close to the same. Now I rotate the tires every 5K miles. I'm saving for 16" rims and Michelins.


Attachment 230079

Attachment 230080

Attachment 230081

It appears you do not run TPMS so had no idea you were running on a tire that exhibits signs of being run flat. i.e. tread degradation, melted body cord, abraded innerliner.