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07-30-2013, 07:27 PM
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#1
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2 Rivet Member
2004 28' Safari
Semora
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 56
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Abnormal tire wear, cause?? Help needed.
Hi, all. I am having a problem with accellerated and asymmetric wear on my streetside tires. These are 2 yo GYMs worn out at 16k miles. The front tire is through the tread on the inside of the tire, while the rear is down to the cord on the outside. The curbside tires still have 7/32 in of tread all round. The bearings are properly adjusted without slop and run cool. I think I have a problem with alignment, but how do I diagnose and adjust this? Help!!
__________________
Bruce Robillard
Danville, Va.
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07-30-2013, 07:38 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1973 21' Globetrotter
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,314
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It doesn't sound like you have an alignment issue as much as a camber problem.
I would start by jacking up the trailer on the street side and make absolutely sure that the axle mounts aren't loose, and that the axles are seated completely down into the notch in the frame that the axles seat into. Next, inspect the other side for the same.
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07-30-2013, 08:01 PM
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#3
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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[QUOTE=Belegedhel;1333768]It doesn't sound like you have an alignment issue as much as a camber problem.
Camber is an alignment problem. Have you ran over anything with that side of the trailer?Sounds like both axles might be bent.Each axle works independent of the other so you have an issue affecting both axles. The best thing to do would be to find an independent alignment shop that could get the trailer on the rack and check the alignment on both axles. Check for toe, and camber problems.Also check the caster however caster doesn't cause tire wear it just make it handle horrible. They shouldn't be out if something is not loose or bent, but the axles can be bent to realign them just make sure they don't apply heat to them.
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07-31-2013, 06:37 AM
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#4
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbr
Hi, all. I am having a problem with accellerated and asymmetric wear on my streetside tires. These are 2 yo GYMs worn out at 16k miles. The front tire is through the tread on the inside of the tire, while the rear is down to the cord on the outside. The curbside tires still have 7/32 in of tread all round. The bearings are properly adjusted without slop and run cool. I think I have a problem with alignment, but how do I diagnose and adjust this? Help!!
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Key points: Driver side tires, front inside, rear outside.
This sounds like the axles aren't a parallel. But that should result in the other side tires doing the opposite.
So I would look for a bent axle or something else causing the trailer not to track straight.
Oh and a misaligned tow vehicle can cause the trailer not to track straight!
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07-31-2013, 07:41 AM
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#5
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbr
I think I have a problem with alignment, but how do I diagnose and adjust this? Help!!
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Diagnosis:
1 - Measure on both sides, the distance between the front and rear axles. Should be the same on both sides.
2 - Measure, diagonally from a point on the centerlines (near the hitch socket is a good spot) to the front axles on both sides. Measurement should be the same on each side.
3- Do the same as (2) for the rear axles.
4 - Measure from axles to axle on the diagonal, left front to right rear, and vice versa. Measurements should be the same.
Based on the description of the symptoms, my guess is:
Measurement 1, distance on the street side is shorter than on the curb side.
Measurement 2, distance on the street side is longer than on the curb side.
Measurement 3, distance on the street side is shorter than on the curb side.
Measurement 4, distance diagonally left front to right rear is nearly the same as left rear to right front.
When all of the measurements are symmetrical, your alignment should be good.
Weigh the trailer by tire. When the load is leveled from side to side on each axle (left front weight = right front weight, etc., as close as you can get), then also check the distance from axle to frame on all four tires. If you're parked on a level surface, all four distances should be the same. If they're not, that could indicate a bent axle, or worn shocks, or metal-fatigued springs. If you can't get the load leveled from side to side to begin with, then my guess would be the left side is heavier.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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08-06-2013, 04:41 PM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
1992 29' Excella
Asheville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 306
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Similar but different problem
As luck would have it I was just today adjusting the brakes on my trailer and noticed some very uneven wear with my tires. My tires are Signet Express ST Load Range E tires purchased in October of 2011 and have approx 4,000 miles on them.
First of all I know many would not buy E tires for travel. The were recommended as I needed to get it home where it was going to be sitting for almost a year while I worked on it. They should have been a harder tire for longer wear.
Three of the four tires are perfect and I can not tell any difference in the wear pattern on any of them. The curb side front tire is very worn on the inside. I have attached a photo of the two tires off the curb side the one on the right is the front tire and the one on the left is the rear. Both are in the same track orientation (inside to the left,outside to the right)
I have not attempted to do all the measurements at this moment as my driveway is gravel and most definitely not level. I did swap the front for the rear on the same side just to keep from wearing the one tire out completely when I take it out this weekend. I am curious how one wheel would be so out of alignment and have such extreme wear on the inside only. Any suggestions would be helpful.
__________________
Jonathan Hettrick
'92 Excella 29'
'20 Ram 2500
AIR # 59179
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08-06-2013, 05:23 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Hi, Chillpoints; I would say that this tire is "toed out" and that would cause the tire to be worn on the inside working it's way out. Therefore worn on an angle.
For the original poster, He seems to have one toed out and the other toed in. Maybe he made a right turn too sharp and forced his tires against the curb or something and bending his axles. [only a guess, I wasn't there]
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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08-06-2013, 06:19 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1974 Argosy 20
2014 20' Flying Cloud
Kooskia
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,591
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Is it possible that you have a couple of broken belts in your tires? Look at post #37 on page 3 by Tireman9 in this other thread. It may be the same issue, think about it anyway.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...-107328-3.html
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08-06-2013, 07:17 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
1992 29' Excella
Asheville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 306
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Always have had ugly toes
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, Chillpoints; I would say that this tire is "toed out" and that would cause the tire to be worn on the inside working it's way out. Therefore worn on an angle.
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So do you have suggestions as to how to adjust the toe on one foot... I mean wheel? I am afraid you are going to say replace the axle.
I do not see the caster and camper adjustments on these trailers let alone a toe in our out adjustment.
Thanks for any help possible
__________________
Jonathan Hettrick
'92 Excella 29'
'20 Ram 2500
AIR # 59179
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08-06-2013, 08:29 PM
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#10
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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[QUOTE=ROBERTSUNRUS;1336901] Hi, Chillpoints; I would say that this tire is "toed out" and that would cause the tire to be worn on the inside working it's way out. Therefore worn on an angle.
Not a toe problem.Toe will feather the tire all the way across the tread. Looks like a camber problem. Camber is when the top of the tire is is either in or out in relation to the bottom of the tire, therefore you get wear on the inside or out side of a tire depending on whether it is negative or positive camber.Toe is the relation of the front of the tread in relation to the rear of the tread so therefore it scuffs the tread all the way across the face of the tread. There are a few things to check such as your bearings, shocks,and make sure all axle bolt are tight and nothing on the frame or axle is loose or cracked (all of these are not very likely). I would guess a bent axle as my first guess. Either do all the measurements as described above or the most reliable would be to find an independent alignment shop that could get it on their alignment rack and check all the critical measurements for you.
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08-06-2013, 08:33 PM
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#11
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillpoints
So do you have suggestions as to how to adjust the toe on one foot... I mean wheel? I am afraid you are going to say replace the axle.
I do not see the caster and camper adjustments on these trailers let alone a toe in our out adjustment.
Thanks for any help possible
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There is not an "adjustment" you can do at home. An alignment shop may be able to bend the axle back into adjustment just make sure they don't put heat on it to bend it. It will depend on how bad it is out. Bad news is you might have to replace the axle. Good luck!
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08-06-2013, 11:33 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
2005 25' Safari
Salem
, Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chillpoints
So do you have suggestions as to how to adjust the toe on one foot... I mean wheel? I am afraid you are going to say replace the axle.
I do not see the caster and camber adjustments on these trailers let alone a toe in our out adjustment.
Thanks for any help possible
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Hi, there are no adjustments for toe and camber this has to be done by bending the axle. Caster is an axis [king pin] angle and these do not have that; The trailing arm type suspension creates a caster effect. Someone jacking up your trailer [by the axle tube] to change tires or do a bearing repack could also create this problem.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
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08-07-2013, 04:32 AM
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#13
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idroba
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Sorry, but the tire in this thread is an alignment issue, not a tire problem. This wear pattern is 360° around the tire on one rib. A tire problem would have an isolated wear spot about 8" long, just off one of the outermost ribs.
Also, I don't like the term "broken belt" as that seems to be describing something that isn't there. The best term would be "belt leaving belt separation", but I'll settle for "tread separation".
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08-07-2013, 06:33 AM
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#14
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
Hi, there are no adjustments for toe and camber this has to be done by bending the axle. Caster is an axis [king pin] angle and these do not have that; The trailing arm type suspension creates a caster effect. Someone jacking up your trailer [by the axle tube] to change tires or do a bearing repack could also create this problem.
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Caster does not wear tires it is what causes your vehicle to track straight. Robert is right in that the trailing arm type axle has the caster built in. I disagree about jacking up the axle could have caused this because if you jack the tt up with the axle and it bends it will bend up which would cause the top of the tire to lean out thus creating a positive camber on the tire. The inside of the tire is worn out on tire so it has negative camber. Most likely from a curb hit or a pothole or some other obstruction in the road that was hit.
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08-07-2013, 06:42 AM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Sorry, but the tire in this thread is an alignment issue, not a tire problem. This wear pattern is 360° around the tire on one rib. A tire problem would have an isolated wear spot about 8" long, just off one of the outermost ribs.
Also, I don't like the term "broken belt" as that seems to be describing something that isn't there. The best term would be "belt leaving belt separation", but I'll settle for "tread separation".
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The standard accepted term is "broken belt".If you go into any tire store and say you think you have a "broken belt" in your tire they will know what you are talking about.
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08-07-2013, 09:56 AM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
1992 29' Excella
Asheville
, North Carolina
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 306
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where to go for service?
Quote:
Originally Posted by panheaddale
Caster does not wear tires it is what causes your vehicle to track straight. Robert is right in that the trailing arm type axle has the caster built in. I disagree about jacking up the axle could have caused this because if you jack the tt up with the axle and it bends it will bend up which would cause the top of the tire to lean out thus creating a positive camber on the tire. The inside of the tire is worn out on tire so it has negative camber. Most likely from a curb hit or a pothole or some other obstruction in the road that was hit.
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Thanks, I was thinking the same thing about which way the axle would bend if it had been a jacking issue. They would have had to jack the axle from the outside of the tire to bend it up.
So folks have mentioned finding a good alignment shop. The places I use for my TV are all enclosed and could not fit a TT on the rack. Do you check a place that specializes in Big Rigs or campers. There is a local Camping World with a service bay but I do not know of their repair/service abilities. I would prefer to take it to the Out of Doors Mart (if they do that sort of service) but that is 4 hrs away.
Should I just plan a tip to get it fixed?
__________________
Jonathan Hettrick
'92 Excella 29'
'20 Ram 2500
AIR # 59179
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08-07-2013, 01:06 PM
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#17
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
1968 30' Sovereign
Vintage Kin Owner
somewhere
, Tennessee
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 211
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tire wear
I wouldn't drive 4 hrs you will probably have a blow out on that tire. Check around local if the shop has a 12 ft garage door they should be able to get it in if their rack is big enough. Some shops just won't fool with it but maby their is one that the owner has a camper or he is an old hotrodder. You have an airstream use that to your advantage because everyone loves an airstream. If it was a SOB you might not get lucky. Good luck
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08-07-2013, 02:34 PM
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#18
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Jim J
2014 30' Flying Cloud
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 615
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Before you start bending and replacing axles, check to make sure your axle nuts are tightened sufficiently, This is easy to do by jacking up the trailer and tugging on the tires, one hand on the left side, one hand on the right. If you fell they are moving, you need to tighten up your axle nut.
A loose axle nut can produce tire wear that is similar to what you describe.
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08-07-2013, 03:24 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
K.C.
, Missouri
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 585
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Why don't you get the yellow pages for your fair city out and look for a trailer repair shop ? A place that works on trailers such as for 18 wheelers would have the rack, tools and expertise.
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08-08-2013, 06:04 AM
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#20
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CapriRacer
I'm in the
, US
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panheaddale
The standard accepted term is "broken belt".If you go into any tire store and say you think you have a "broken belt" in your tire they will know what you are talking about.
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First, tire shops are not populated by brightest thinkers in the industry. They are notorious for using terms very loosely and incorrectly. By contrast, tire engineers do NOT use that term. All I am trying to do is to get people to eliminate the use of terms that are mis-leading - particularly terms that don't say what is really going on. Popularity should not be the deciding factor.
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