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Old 11-20-2006, 08:40 AM   #29
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180,000 miles on my goodyear marathons!

2airishuman
To begin with the title/opening statement is misleading to the casual observer. Overlander 63 called you on it.

You ran the tires at 65 psi. This minimises the sidewall flexing/heat generation and checked you tires as carefully and as ofter as you put on your shoes. That alone will lessen the chance of failure.

Your have three axles/less load on each tire than on the tires of the 31 foot twin axles.

You are like me in the respect of not wishing to be a traffic hazard on the interstates or other roads where the speed limit is 55 or above, so you keep up with traffic. A lot of us do that (87.09% who responded to the poll).

You had excellent reliability from your tires, no failures, no damage and I am very happy for you.

However, the facts remain thus;

The ST tire is a 65 mph speed rated tire and is tested at full load for 24 hours on a 100 degree F. surface with no squirm or additional sidewall loading induced.
Summertime road temperatures far exceed this temperature.

At 72 mph you are at 111% of the tires tested and verified ratings, and you have broad side wind, tractor trailers and busses passing you etc causing additional side loading that is not introduced during testing.

You got by, a lot of us did not.

I said before: "What it is telling me is that (455 respondents after I answered it) 234 other Airstream owners (51.65%) are towing their trailers at a speed that represents 100% (65 mph) to 108% (70 mph) to 115% (75 mph and above) of their ST tires design and tested capabilities and complaining about the tire failures.
You all have a choice, slow down or go to a more capable rated tire."

I chose to go to a more capable rated tire rather than fret over tires like they were a boil waiting to burst.

Also the wear on that one tire I would guess is a result of out of ballance condition caused by wear or slung weight AND or aggrivated by a bad shock.

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Old 11-20-2006, 10:53 AM   #30
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hello beginner...

u really are a one trick pony it seems...

why not just write up your position on tires in one post and refer folks 2 it via a link whenever needed...

repeating the marathon bashing devalues the original observations and alternative tire selections you made....imo

now, lets work backwards on a few of your comments...

-you went with a tire different than goodyear? wow that IS news...

-the one tire..
perhaps it did lose a weight during it's journey or the balance degraded over time and wear.
but a bad shock? which one? it's been on all 3 axles.
seems there are several possibilites for that one oddly worn region...which does NOT repeat anywhere else on the tire...
imbalance or a bad shock are the least likely issues, imo...

-the poll...
i didn't respond; neither did 16,000+ other members here.
research suggests respondents in polls like this (where a known proper answer is included like 65mph) often tweak their response toward
the ideal answer, so i would suggest that far more folks are over 65 than the results indicate.
there are other issues with the poll. but imo ALL polls here are for entertainment value....

-who 'gets by'....
the vast majority do in fact get by.
any tire failure is a big deal; especially when it's personal,
but to write that "you got by, a lot of us did not" presents the actual user data exactly the opposite of the facts...

-tire ratings...
info about tire ratings has been so badly mangled here, that fixing it is futile...

goodyears OWN literature indicates it is industry CONVENTION to rate trailer tires at 65mph. it does NOT suggest they are made ONLY up to that rating...

in fact goodyear includes a guideline on inflation for folks towing at 65-70mph...

i'm sure they are have conducted their own research on user demographics and usage...

-inflation and monitoring...
yes i do these things. many of us do. some are more anal about it than others.
posting what, how and why we check tires may encourage others to do more. perhaps that is a good thing.
i also used a siloxaine dressing on them from time2time...many think this is evil...

things i didn't do...i did not rebalance them. i accepted the factory balance. i did not road force balance them.
i didn't use beads or rebalancing devices. no tire pressure monitors either.

i also didn't replace them with a tire not specified for towing....

so my care and use is much like the average user...except for logging lots of miles in a short time span...

the title isn't misleading at all. i did get 180,000+ miles.

and from the looks of 5 tires, COULD have towed another 100,000 miles (5x20k) with tread left.

the title does just what intended...and terry was just quick to think this out...that is the fun side of some threads.

i believe my mileage reporting is exactly how it's done....180k user miles without a failure...
that IS how they arrive at totals like '2 billion user miles' and so on...

also i wanted to share my positive experience with the goodyears and encourage others to report their mileages....

your pony needs to learn some new tricks

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-20-2006, 01:37 PM   #31
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180,000 miles on my goodyear marathons

You missed the point.
The only ST tire I found with a rating of more than 65 mph was the Cooper Custom trailer Plus, which I think has been discontinued.
Its the ST tire. Its only tested (in accordance with Federal Acquition Regulations and European Standards) to 65 mph.
I came to realise in my research, talking with older RVers, previous tire dealers in two cases and monitering other forums that the ST tire as a class is a problem given our (mine included) driving habits.
Nowhere in my post did I mention a brand name of tire.
I refered specifically to a Class of tire, the ST. It dosent matter who makes them.
And as to one trick pony, thank you, sincerely. I'd rather be known for doing one thing accurately, without emotion or bias and safely.
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Old 11-20-2006, 02:58 PM   #32
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i've not missed your point...

i get it, we all get it...

it is repeated in every tire thread...

so as to no longer be a point...

dot dot dot

cheers
2air'


OK NE1 ELSE WITH HIGH MILEAGE TOWING TIRE STORIES?
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:32 PM   #33
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Good "air!"

Hi 2air! Well, we have 4 years on our marathons without a hickup... I did pickup a nail in year one (making a U turn by a residential construction site behind Toscanos RV in CA) - they've towed great - I think you have me beat though - probably only 60,000 on mine!

Now, is that replace ON the 5th year, or After the 5th year.......

It's interesting to me about the tire scrubbing the rear and forward tires the most... although they've all been there due to rotation. Makes Andy's comments about needing an ST tire illustrated.... but I agree there are options to everyone out there.

Did you buy Centromatics?

Interesting about the balancing inside vs. outside of the rim - My tire dealer balanced my car's new tires with inside on the rear tires and outside on the front...... I'm wondering if this was deliberate, or if two different people worked on it! I'm not sure if I can figure out a mechanical difference for one vs. the other.
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
Interesting about the balancing inside vs. outside of the rim - My tire dealer balanced my car's new tires with inside on the rear tires and outside on the front...... I'm wondering if this was deliberate, or if two different people worked on it! I'm not sure if I can figure out a mechanical difference for one vs. the other.
Marc
Balancing the inside of the tire only is called static balancing, and it is possiblt to still feel vibration from the tire, even though it is balanced. Balancing on inside and outside is called dynamic balancing, and the possibility of feeling veibration from a tire balanced this way is greatly reduced.
Match balancing, or force balancing, is the balancing of the tire/wheel assembly while it is mounted on the vehicle. This is the balancing method Inland Andy promotes, and results in the smoothest possible ride.
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:45 PM   #35
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million mile tests

For those of you that don't know how things that go on our vehicles are tested, one test is a million mile road test. This does not mean one guy drives one car a million miles, this means that 100 cars each drive 10,000 miles. This is what the car manufacturers are talking about when they tout the fact they have driven their vehicle a million miles in real-world conditions. This is ttrue, it just isn't all on one car. Likewise, 2air's 180,000 mile tires are an accurate description, it just wasn't 180,000 per tire.
Hey, if Detroit can do this and get away with it, why can't we?
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:43 PM   #36
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I would like to add to Terry's balancing types above. There is also "Road Force" balancing done on a Hunter 9700 balancing machine. Most tires have variations in sidewall and tread stiffness in each tire. By rolling the tire loaded against a measuring roller, the machine can determine the magnitute of these stiffness variations. These variations can cause a tire to feel out of round and/or out of balance. Last I heard, of the most used tire models, the Michelin LTX M/S had the lowest variations in these road forces with an average of 15 pounds or less around the circumference of the tire. Some tires have variations of as much as 75 pounds.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:06 PM   #37
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2air 2air ,now I am in agreement on your great luck on your marathons .
I think you did get lucky and thats good .others can comment can't they ?
is this agree or be quiet then thread ? sounds as such.

Scott
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
they've towed great - I think you have me beat though - probably only 60,000 on mine!
Now, is that replace ON the 5th year, or After the 5th year.......Marc
hi marc

agreed, deciding which year is hard and somewhat of a guess...3-5 yrs depending on exposure, usage and idle time seems close.

no doubt i could have rolled 4-5 of these tires alot longer...

so why swap all 6?

since i knew just how far they'd already traveled, i was beginnig to think TOO much about them...as in when will one fail...

so that was the factor that prompted me to do them all...why worry needlessly?

thanks terry and bob for detailing the balance issue.
i've used road force balancing on my track tires and 30-40 series road tires...it makes a hugh difference. i did have 3/4 contis once that were too far off for road force...so they were exchanged for new tires..

i've considered doing this with the marathon/alcoas but decided instead to try the centramatics with this set...

can't decide what will be the benchmark for 'improved' performance....

180k is pretty good already

2air'
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
I am in agreement on your great luck on your marathons. I think you did get lucky and thats good .others can comment can't they ? is this agree or be quiet then thread ? sounds as such. Scott
hi scott
no need to be quiet post what ever you like. perhaps it is luck, but more likely it is how the vast majority of these tires can perform, if kept properly inflated and rolling.

i believe most die of old age, imbalance and under inflation....tires that is.

another member here rolled over a board full o'nails and lost 4 tires on one side in an instant....2 on the tv and 2 on the a/s...all nearly new.

road hazards happen, flats happen and so on...in that regard i was fortunate.

defects happen too...but very very few for the millions of marathons being used and abused every day...

so if and when folks suggest the 0.000001 rate for failure is common,
and anyone that wears out a marathon is just 'lucky'...

well...

keep in mind not all failure stories may be gospel...

look at the pics of these tires again...lots of thread left, and less than 3 years old.
had the one tire failed, i could have easily claimed very little usage, low mileage and so on....so the one failure could have been reported in a bias way...

i'm not suggesting you or anyone else here does that, but the point is even a reported failure may not be cut and dried...

cheers
2air'

anyone else with a high mileage story?
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:33 PM   #40
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Hi, I think 30,000 miles is pretty good. I think 180,000 miles was cute. I think that a good success story once in a while is also good. Looking at a picture of a tire to tell what happened is mostly just opinion. My opinion after reading what was said and looking at the pictures is: Not a flat spot from skidding, although people say how much better disc brakes are on their trailer, from 2air's testimony; 30,000 miles in 18 months. I don't think he ever stopped! Not a shock problem, but could be a balance problem. But a balance problem would start with one flat spot and alternate back and forth until all the way around the tire. Beginning of separation possible, but I don't believe a nail caused it. As for the inside wearing out a little, looks to me like a toe out condition. But if all tires were rotated at equal mileage, there would have been others. My conclusion; 2air got his money's worth and made the right decission to change all six. I am not a tire expert and this, as I stated, is only my opinion.
As for the Centramatics, my concern, in 2air's case, I might be concerned about blocking the cool air flow to the disc brakes. Wouldn't effect my drum brakes.

Bob
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:52 PM   #41
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2Air,

Enjoyed your post on Marathons. Just put four on my 29' Sovereign and logged 9700 miles this summer so I am off to a good start. Next summer is New Foundland with Al & Gracie and Alaska the year after.

I didn't photo my takeoffs but, here is a summary of what I know.

Goodyear Wrangler HT LR C 1999 purchased in Lugoff, SC. - Tires had been balanced and drums marked as well so I assume they were rebalanced at a dealer in Florida. Tires were removed due to age, there was no irregular wear on any of the four tires. No sidewall cracks, no nothing except age.
1999-2001 mileage estimate 4000 2nd owner
2002-2003 mileage estimate 3000 3rd owner
2003-2006 mileage was 13,000 my ownership
20,000x4= 80,000 miles by your calculation.

Tires were run at 38 psi cold, 58-62 miles per hour average speed, 1600# per tire would be a load factor of 76%. Wrangler HT is a light truck and has the same tie-in or long turnup around the bead as a trailer tire.

I opted to go up to the marathon LR D because I am loading a little heavier on caravans plus the belt edge reinforcement plus I hope to get a little bit less rolling resistance from the higher inflation pressure (65psi cold).

I am most concerned about road hazard; nails, trash, etc. rather than the tire design and any manufacturing defects although american workmanship leaves a lot to be desired in terms of uniformity; balance & radial/lateral force variation on replacement market tires.

I will probably purchase a pressure monitoring system before we leave next summer.
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Old 11-20-2006, 11:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS
30,000 miles in 18 months. I don't think he ever stopped! As for the Centramatics, my concern, in 2air's case, I might be concerned about blocking the cool air flow to the disc brakes.
Bob
hi bob

agree at 30k i got my moneys worth on tire set #1

not stopping?
well you aren't far off...
perhaps going down some of those mountain passes, i touched the brakes...

and actually i was planning to replace the brake pads too but they still have 90% left easily...

my concern about the centramatics was exactly yours, air flow to the discs....

dt the a/s sales mngr at this dealership has them on his unit and reports no heat related fade...

so we shall see...also the rotors are vented and the centramatics are a thin aluminum plate....

again we shall see because i do slow down occasionally and i'll know if fade is an issue...

cheers
2air'
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