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Old 09-10-2017, 09:52 PM   #505
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The Tire Rack's take on Nitrogen...

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec...jsp?techid=191
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:43 PM   #506
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Yeah... here they said,...."Nitrogen is a "slow" inactive gas labeled as an inert gas due to its nonreactive nature with many materials. Oxygen on the other hand is a "fast" active gas that reacts with many materials called "oxidation." Additionally nitrogen is a dry gas that doesn't support moisture while oxygen combined with hydrogen makes water (H2O)...."

Shovel away that horth thit.

It takes a lot of energy to make Hydrogen combine with Oxygen to produce water. It's dishonest of them to suggest that because they are in proximity to each other in a tire they convert to water. They don't! And Nitrogen is not any more unwilling to combine with other gases than the example they portray.

They compared apples to oranges. They could also have said that Nitrogen reacts with Oxygen to create "Nitrous-oxide"... but perhaps that wouldn't support their purposes..? ... After all, they already condemned Oxygen as an "oxidizer". Whatthe hell do they think NASCAR racers amd rocket motors use it for? OXIDATION!

So, their article, in my opinion, is disingenuous.

But they covered their arses by summarizing " Rather than pay extra for nitrogen, most drivers would be better off buying an accurate tire pressure gauge and checking and adjusting their tire pressures regularly."
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:45 PM   #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxite View Post
Yeah... here they said,...."Nitrogen is a "slow" inactive gas labeled as an inert gas due to its nonreactive nature with many materials. Oxygen on the other hand is a "fast" active gas that reacts with many materials called "oxidation." Additionally nitrogen is a dry gas that doesn't support moisture while oxygen combined with hydrogen makes water (H2O)...."

Shovel away that horth thit.

It takes a lot of energy to make Hydrogen combine with Oxygen to produce water. It's dishonest of them to suggest that because they are in proximity to each other in a tire they convert to water. They don't! And Nitrogen is not any more unwilling to combine with other gases than the example they portray.

They compared apples to oranges. They could also have said that Nitrogen reacts with Oxygen to create "Nitrous-oxide"... but perhaps that wouldn't support their purposes..? ... After all, they already condemned Oxygen as an "oxidizer". Whatthe hell do they think NASCAR racers amd rocket motors use it for? OXIDATION!

So, their article, in my opinion, is disingenuous.

But they covered their arses by summarizing " Rather than pay extra for nitrogen, most drivers would be better off buying an accurate tire pressure gauge and checking and adjusting their tire pressures regularly."
While racers or rocketeers may think oxidation is useful, that isn't true of every situation, I think we can agree.

Regardless, I've never felt it was worth the time, trouble, or in some cases money to use nitrogen in my tires on the road or track, so I never have.
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Old 09-12-2017, 07:48 AM   #508
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.....It takes a lot of energy to make Hydrogen combine with Oxygen to produce water. .......
Sorry, but you GET energy when hydrogen and oxygen combine to make water. It takes energy to separate them.

HOWEVER, within a tire, there are hardly any chemical reactions taking place - with the exception of slow oxidation - which is the only plus for the use of nitrogen.

But oxygen permeates back into the tire - even if it is filled with 100% pure nitrogen. The process is called The Partial Pressure of Gases Law.

Further, even the presence of water in a tire barely affects its operating pressure. It's only because race car drivers are able to exploit those small changes that this is even mentioned.
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Old 09-12-2017, 01:52 PM   #509
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Ray,

If you use nitrogen, how do you top off when required? Do you have a pressurized nitrogen bottle you carry? Do you have to go to Costco?r
********
I avoid the air pressure coin operated hoses at any Service Stations. May contain too much water vapor... or liquid water. It is water in your tire that is more of an issue.

Adding 78% Nitrogen air does not affect anything.

Many race car teams use "NORMAL AIR". (auto.howstuffworks)

Those that like to WIN, use Nitrogen as tire temperatures are more consistent. Tire pressures with a small range of PSI are important in High Speed Racing.

Tire Rack: The Influence of Altitude Changes on Tire Pressure

Air Pressure at Sea Level is 14.7psi. Air Pressure on a Colorado Pass at 10,000 feet is 10.1psi. The tire pressure gauge at higher elevation would indicate a higher tire pressure (3 to 5psi).

Those who want to continue to RACE their AIRSTREAMS... Nitrogen.

Those who prefer to travel at or below the speed limit... Normal Air or Nitrogen.

Tire pressure changes about 1psi for every 10 degrees Fahrenheit change. Driving from the hot valley to the cold mountain will change your tire pressures. Add elevation and you compound your confusion.

From reading a number of very interesting sites from Ferrari racing (Nitrogen gives them a bit of an edge, but it is water vapor that is a bigger issue.) To Tire Rack which has Altitude of Sea Level 14.7psi and at 10,000 feet at 10.1psi, which they explain. Adding temperature changes. Then take Nitrogen or Normal Air ambient temperatures... and YOU now can tow your trailer in confidence, now knowing more than you ever wanted to know.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:30 PM   #510
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Sorry, but you GET energy when hydrogen and oxygen combine to make water. It takes energy to separate them.....
Well then,....WHERE is all the free energy we should be seeing in our normally-aspirated tires? We shouldn't be having to pay for gasoline!

Actually, you are incorrect. It takes energy in the form of heat/ignition-source to combine hydrogen and oxygen. However, the reaction is exothermic... it releases energy once the reaction is accomplished.... so in that regard your statement is also truthful. The point is that the two gases in your tires from ordinary compressed air is not how water is made.

Oxidation is indeed bad for tires. The outside of the tires will oxidize regardless of what's inside them. Trailer tires should be replaced every 3-5 years regardless of miles towed.

I'm a 78 percenter.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:23 AM   #511
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Boxite... I am also a 78 percenter, but since I am race my Airstream... 100% is available for $11.99.

Tire replacement every 3 to 5 years? That would be another great thread. Would this also apply to Men's Underwear, as well. I do not replace anything, underwear included, until whatever needs to be replaced. This may be an 'average' of a cheap tire on an expensive trailer or RV pusher.

My underwear, under the wife's scrutiny and care, will also be charted against my Michelin tires. I wager that five years is average if you are young, but ten years... if you just do not care and you wear a belt or suspenders. Not Boxers like the US Military issued with your name stenciled on each pair. They were two months at best.

If someone is getting 50,000 miles on their Airstream or F350 Michelins in three to five years of 'normal driving', you must be a commercial vehicle and need to purchase the license plate.

Marathon 14" trailer tires barely made it one to two years on very little use and did not have enough tread to last two years of moderate use of the trailer.

This 3 to 5 year trailer or vehicle tire replacement would be a very interesting discussion. With 100% Nitrogen on the interior and 78% on the exterior of our trailer tires... 10 years if stored in a RV Garage or sheltered. Maybe 20 years if the RV Garage is air conditioned and you want to prove.. a point.

I am 100% satisfied with my 16" Michelins on my International.

I am 100% satisfied with my 99.9% Nitrogen fill for $11.99 at Costco, and top off with 78% Nitrogen at a tire service center offering "Normal Air". California, excluded.

I am 78% satisfied with the Nitrogen found in Boulder City, Nevada blowing through my RV Garage. In three years I will post, if I still own my Airstream, the status of my Michelins and after five years. Since I am a risk taker... I will watch my trailer and truck tires for as long as I own the vehicle and trailer. There obviously are records to be broken and if anyone can... I will and can do it and live to tell my story.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:17 PM   #512
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Sunset Station Casino in Henderson, NV rented out a large section of parking for a RV and trailer SALE display. Up to 75 to browse. Many of the similar models on display. Nancy and I browsed some $165,000 (sticker $229,000) RV's and a few $35,000 (sticker add 50%) trailers. The names were unfamiliar and it did not matter. We were 'comparison shopping' against our 2006 formerly owned Safari and our current 2014 International.

First... Tires: I had never heard of the tires I looked at. Many of the 25 foot size, or so, had 14" unknowns. Did see some 16" E Rated tires, unknown brands to me.

Secondly... Trailers and RVs: Had I a large meal BEFORE looking at this large display... I would have vomited from the absolute poor quality, poor materials, cheap carpeting, pieces of trim falling off, exteriors... our worst nightmare of an Airstream is a sight to behold in comparison!

We may pay double for our similar length of Airstream. After seeing these trailers on display and being discounted up to 50% of their 'sticker'... 20% of sticker was too much.

No Michelin tires on these poor excuses looking to be purchased by an uneducated newbie.

We may debate among a narrow range of tires on the AirForums... but these we discuss over and over ARE dependable. Even if I have to say the 15" Goodyear (any name on the exterior sidewall) would be more dependable. I say 15", not the 14" Marathons that would be upgrades to whatever tires these trailers had attached.

For those of you who have stopped at a restaurant while traveling and the food was barely manageable to swallow? After seeing the competition to Airstream... anyone, if you cannot afford a new Airstream... a used option at the cost of one of these on display is an absolute smart decision.

I would be certain that NONE of these had Nitrogen filled tires. None had Michelin tires. This tells me that when you find a trailer, Racing Airstreams or not... you may complain about parts and components... but stop this weekend and view the competition. Your used Airstream is being sold... too cheap.

...and do this BEFORE you eat.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:29 PM   #513
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Post #512. It would have been more appropriate to put this under Off Topic.

Those who have not been to a RV Show need to attend at least one. I was a bit strong in the feeling out of sorts comparing these new trailers to our late model Airstream.

Although this is a 16" Tire Thread... over time the topic spins off into the ether. My first instinct was to look at the Tire Brands being used and sizes. I will always believe that if a trailer is for sale and the tires are possibly not among those you would use on your trailer, go in and see what you will find in the interior.

My curious nature drew me into a number of trailers on display.

When it is said that ALL or MOST trailers on the market use the same or similar components, well, maybe not. I recommend that all of you, now that your are well versed in trailers just from Forum Discussions, go and compare Other Brands.

Run your hands along counter tops. Check the shower construction. The walls and ceilings. The cabinet hinges and cabinets themselves. Plumbing fixtures. Sinks. Flooring materials. Exterior parts and how they are attached. Windows and how they open and close. Is AC standard or an option.

After going into a dozen trailers the experience was a reminder WHY we purchased our first Airstream in 2006 from attending a RV / Trailer Show. The Airstream's price at the time, seemed high in comparison other trailers.

How might your observations affect you, after owning an Airstream? I have to admit, my reaction was from an experienced owner of a true high quality trailer. Putting this into words I found difficult in the original post and would have changed some of the terminology after a hour of review.

We all have varying opinions about quality and mine may be a bit more directed in comparisons of construction and materials. When on this Forum you will find complaints. But most of the energy is like this Thread, improving upon what we already have.. an Airstream. Maybe not perfect, but after some of you own one for five years or longer, the Airstream beats anything, anywhere and anytime.

I may have to return to this RV Show and try to find some positive observations. I advise that those of you, like myself, find much to criticize Airstream and some of the really minor issues for most, need to step out of our cocoons. We are so focused on what we already have and forget, we already found standard in a trailer, meeting our higher standards.

Airstreams may not be for everyone. Other trailers are selling. Attending a RV Show is the best way to get a sense of where we are in the world of trailers, even if you already own an Airstream.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:38 PM   #514
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RAY... after reading your posts.... YOU DA' MAN!

I'll happily pick up your bar-bill ANYTIME...ANYWHERE...!! (as long as I get to help contribute to the sum of our indebtedness....) LOL.

I so enjoy your sensible and informational posts. Hope to meet you in person, some day.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:37 AM   #515
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Looked at a 2018 Tommy Bahama today. Looks to have 15' Rims with Goodyear Endurance Tires.
Wondering if the switch to 16' Sendels with Michelins would be worth the price?

Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks
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Old Yesterday, 01:47 PM   #516
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The first Pendleton variation of the Edie Bauer model came with the 16" SenDel wheels and 16" Michelin tires. Now with the new higher Airstream prices, they equipment their upmarket trailers with generic 15" wheels and the unproven new GoodYear ST tires.

What a rip off!
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Old Today, 06:48 AM   #517
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The first Pendleton variation of the Edie Bauer model came with the 16" SenDel wheels and 16" Michelin tires. Now with the new higher Airstream prices, they equipment their upmarket trailers with generic 15" wheels and the unproven new GoodYear ST tires.

What a rip off!
It is all about the monies...
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Old Today, 07:37 AM   #518
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The first Pendleton variation of the Edie Bauer model came with the 16" SenDel wheels and 16" Michelin tires. Now with the new higher Airstream prices, they equipment their upmarket trailers with generic 15" wheels and the unproven new GoodYear ST tires.

What a rip off!
Just because a product has a "name" associated with it (AKA "Sen-Del" or "George Foreman")...does not mean it's a superb product. Most aluminum wheels come from China. Most steel wheels come from North America. Besides, how do you know the steel wheels aren't also Sendel?

If the Goodyear tires are a "new" design... then why are they automatically less respected?

Just sayin....
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