16" Sendel Wheels & 16" Michelin LTX Tires

[TinVenture]

Originally Posted by veg hed

Nobody?

I called Vinnie at Vinnie’s Northbay Airstream. He knows all our trailers like the back of his hand. He can advise you which rims/tires fit. Vinnie had the Sendel rims shippped straight to my house.

http://www.vinniesairstream.com

[switz]

A 2011 23 FB came with 14" five lug wheels on 10" brake drums. To get six lug drum brakes requires an upgrade to 12" drum brakes.

The original 14" GYM ST215/75R14C tires are 26.7" in diameter.

We upgraded to 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires that are 28.9" in diameter and mounted them on the five lug SenDel T03-56545T wheels. These tires had to be derated 10% from the sidewall load rating of 2,183 pounds to 1,985 pounds per the Federal Regulation below. We run at 44 psi which is also the max load capacity for this tire. This tire has been installed by CanAm in London Ontario on hundreds of Airstreams for the better ride and tire foot print as contrasted to the 15" GYM.

**************************
49 CFR 571.110

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1

Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.


S4.2.2.2

When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3

a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

***********************

Our 23D scale numbers are:

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2.609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

Thus there is more than adequate safety load capacity in these 15" Michelin tires. The replacement Defender series have about 80 pounds more side wall load capacity.

We found that the street side wheel well had about ½" of return in the metal behind the plastic wheel well liner and the curb side had about 2" of clearance for the same measurement. Metal snips made the openings symmetrical. We had about ½" clearance between the edge of the wheel opening and the closest edge of the tire.

The 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi tires are 29.2" in diameter which translates to being about a quarter inch larger that the 15" Michelin's. Even though the suspensions moves back and up on a bump, there may not be enough clearance for the 16" tires.

The 16" Michelins would be a harsher ride for the lighter trailer. The Load E inflation table:

80psi 2,680 (E)
75psi 2,560
70psi 2,440
65psi 2,335 (D)
60psi 2,190
55psi 2,060
50psi 1,940 (C)
45psi 1,790

shows that even at 50 psi the Load E tires could carry the load, but such low pressure might lead to side wall failure form more flexation due to lower pressure.

[Ray Eklund]

Thank you Switz. As always, details and explanations. Tireman has a great 15" GYE thread with similar great information.

From both threads of the 16" and 15" options, the double axles do have a greater advantage of having four tires. If one goes flat, one tire still can handle a temporary extra burden.

Single Axle trailers, in my opinion, may be best to go to a 16" LTX and Wheel for extra security and safety. This is what I took from Tireman's Thread of Goodyear's newly discovered ST tire the Endurance, after promoting the Marathons as a great tire. Feedback from trailer owners and sales prompted a redesign and thought process of upgrading what was an inferior tire for a long time.

The Michelins have so much tread depth, that they will 'age out' before wearing out.

Safe speeds are more Driver and Tow Vehicle's ability questions. I would never be a passenger, if my Mother were driving, anytime. Traveling on paved highways at or below the posted Speed Limit with our use of 16" Michelins has had no negative affect. Our 'popped rivets' are due to Off the Grid roads and the uneven side to side grades and the washboard sections... not the tires.

It will be interesting to hear from Airstream owners that used 15" D Rated Tires for years, went to 16" E Rated tires and if anything different has been observed in the interior. Popped Rivets, Cabinet screws and hinges coming loose, Hardware coming lose, grommets on the earlier stove falling out, etc. This is from our 14" Marathons on the 23 foot 2006 Safari and similar to the 25 foot 2014 International. Both trailers I upgraded hinges and better screws and bolts to take care of vibrations off the paved roads.

(Check the outside wall of your shower that the television is mounted. I removed the television on this trip, as we never have used it. There may be three to possibly four screws securing it and flexes. This was something noticed in our 25 foot rear bed International. I added better screws and doubled them to firm it up... tight.)

Airstream's use of cabinet door hinges, designed for homes, may work best when traveling on paved highways. They are not my choice once the roads are uneven and not smooth using BLM of NFS roads. Even fixtures need extra screws and nut/bolt adaptations to stiffen up the interior walls, which have very little hardware from the factory.

Switz and Tireman are true assets for those of us who travel frequently and want the best for our trailer and avoiding tire failures. Pop rivets and screws are simple to change. When a tire fails on the highway, the tire is the cheapest cost to replace. The damage done to the fender well may be into the thousands of dollars...

In five years... the Michelins 16" and the Goodyear Endurance 15" will be well tested. Please make your comments and experience known. The Marathon was 'engineered' and in my experiences with the 14"... a disaster.

[Ray Eklund]

This week I removed each of my Michelin tires for a close inspection. I removed them so I could inspect my Dexter Brake assemblies.

One thing I noticed and you may also notice is that the tread get what a Goodyear Marathon dealer called 'checking' of the tread.

My 2006 23 foot Safari had 14" Marathons. One tire, several weeks after purchase in 2006 had small bubbles on the exterior smooth area. He charged me more for the replacement due to the... "checking". He acted as if it was something I did and not the tire. He measured the tread wear and then charged me pretty much what the tire sold for new. (Last Goodyear tire 'service' for me, after that.)

The Michelins also have this texture to the tread wear surface. Not smooth like you would find on your tow vehicle. I look at it as getting extra traction on wet and slick roads... for no extra cost by using the tires.

I consider this to be normal, as it looked exactly the same on the Marathons. Has anyone else notice this? Nothing else was observed, and I was looking for anything.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

This week I removed each of my Michelin tires for a close inspection. I removed them so I could inspect my Dexter Brake assemblies.

One thing I noticed and you may also notice is that the tread get what a Goodyear Marathon dealer called 'checking' of the tread.

My 2006 23 foot Safari had 14" Marathons. One tire, several weeks after purchase in 2006 had small bubbles on the exterior smooth area. He charged me more for the replacement due to the... "checking". He acted as if it was something I did and not the tire. He measured the tread wear and then charged me pretty much what the tire sold for new. (Last Goodyear tire 'service' for me, after that.)

The Michelins also have this texture to the tread wear surface. Not smooth like you would find on your tow vehicle. I look at it as getting extra traction on wet and slick roads... for no extra cost by using the tires.

I consider this to be normal, as it looked exactly the same on the Marathons. Has anyone else notice this? Nothing else was observed, and I was looking for anything.

I've never heard the term "checking" before, but maybe he was referring to blistering. This is caused by internal friction between the tire's layers causing heat build up which basically de-vulcanizes the rubber and can cause bubbles or blisters in the tread. Typically, this overheating is caused by improper inflation. Maybe the service guy felt that your tires had been abused in this fashion.

I've not seen this on my tires and wouldn't consider it "normal" or something that was a benefit traction-wise; to the contrary, I'd be concerned about it. As a first step, make sure your tires are properly inflated and the correct load rating for your trailer.

If what you're seeing is not blisters, then I don't have any idea what "checking" might be.

[TheCabin]

It might be tire cupping that is often caused by misalignment or low quality tires.

[Ray Eklund]

Post #625 and #626. I think you have misread my description, so made three photographs of the current forward Left and Right Michelin tires on my 25 foot International. Tire pressure is not the issue. Tire quality is not the issue.

The responses prompted me to take the photos. Although even enlarged, it is hard to see. If you feel the surface tread on your trailer, it would be best to understand.

The tread on the trailer Michelins have a texture on the tread surface.

The tread on the Tow Vehicle Michelins have a smooth wear tread surface.

No cupping. Balanced at Costco. No unusual worn surface. 72-75psi cold pressure. All four have the same wear surface.

The photos do not seem to show the surface of the tread, as I am trying to describe. If you look at your trailer tread surface, you may find it the same, or not. That is my question. If my Off the Asphalt driving will produce a texture wear surface and not the smooth tread surface found on the Two Vehicle, which travels the same roads while towing.

I believe that all trailer tires will have this surface on the tread. Your participation would be appreciated after checking your trailer's tires.

Maybe a Tire Professional can make the distinction. It just an observation and I am not concerned, but curious.

[mikeinca]

Apparently I did misunderstand your description; I think it was your reference to "bubbles" that confused me. And unfortunately, your photos aren't appearing on my monitor with sufficient sharpness to pick up the tread surface irregularities you're referring to.

My trailer has Michelin LTX M/S tires and my truck has Michelin LTX A/T's so the tread patterns are dissimilar. The tread surfaces of both are of similar smoothness and texture, however, so I guess to answer your original question....no, I haven't seen anything like what you described.

[DBinSD]

The photos are not in focus so it is hard to see what you are referring to.

Does it sit for long periods of time?
Is it sitting outside ?
Are you in a hot area ?
Do you clean / scrub them often?
Is the outer sidewall checked and the inner not?

[CapriRacer]

"Checking" is a short version of "Weather Checking", which refers to the start of cracks forming in the rubber due to oxygen degradation. It is expected that rubber will crack eventually and when the cracks get big enough, it is an indication that it's time to change tires.

Most people use time as a reference rather than the severity of the cracks - with 5 or 6 years being a common value.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

"Checking" is a short version of "Weather Checking", which refers to the start of cracks forming in the rubber due to oxygen degradation. It is expected that rubber will crack eventually and when the cracks get big enough, it is an indication that it's time to change tires.

Most people use time as a reference rather than the severity of the cracks - with 5 or 6 years being a common value.

Yep...4yr old Continentals on DW 350GLK, Switched to Michelins this past Spring.

Ray,
Feathering ware? Alignment. 4wheel recommended.

Bob
🇺🇸

[TheCabin]

Capri,

In #624 it appears that the tire dealer added an additional penalty due to "Weather Checking" than tread wear alone. Why?

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by TheCabin

Capri,

In #624 it appears that the tire dealer added an additional penalty due to "Weather Checking" than tread wear alone. Why?

******
Probably because I was gullible at that time and he was the 'expert'.

******
The trailer is stored in a RV Garage at home.

There is no tire rot, tread separation or tire damage.

This is the surface of the tread that makes contact with the road. As you 'cannot see' in the photos, it is not very obvious until you remove the wheel and examine the tire. The surface is exactly like that on the 2006 Marathon tire surfaces. The Marathon tire was on a New Airstream and had bubbles in the sidewall about the size of BB's. That is why I took it to the Dealer.

This is probably easier to describe with those standing next to the trailer, than words.

But... it is easy to see once you are aware. I will make a point of looking at other tires on trailers while on the road.

It is not a potential Tire Failure. Some have pretty good imaginations. When standing next to your Airstream, rub your hand over the tire tread. It has a rough texture on mine and the previous Marathon tread.

My automobiles with 8 Michelins have a smooth slick surface. It is real obvious when comparing the two. This is simple observation. There is no pending disaster... it is like frosted glass and unfrosted glass. Maybe that is a better description.

Once others compare tow vehicle tires to their trailer's... then we are off to the Races.

[DBinSD]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer

snip -

Most people use time as a reference rather than the severity of the cracks - with 5 or 6 years being a common value.

Exactly, we never go past 5 years regardless of miles/ wear.

It has worked well for us.

[Tireman9]

Some general guidelines and suggestions for taking good pictures of tire conditions.


Full sunlight and NO flash.
Set the camera to maximum pixels or max quality
Take close enough to only include 8" to 10" of the tire surface. Closer if you have a camera that allows "Macro" or close-up.
If all you have is a phone you need a minimum of 10 Megapixles.
Only use "Optical Zoom" not digital zoom if possible.


Here is an example of a good quality tire picture that would allow someone to make a judgement on a tread surface complaint.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Yep...4yr old Continentals on DW 350GLK, Switched to Michelins this past Spring.

Ray,
Feathering ware? Alignment. 4wheel recommended.

Bob
🇺🇸

Good picture showing what I would consider adjustable sidewall cracking, depending on tire age.

[Action]

And start a new thread.

This thread is extremely long (630 posts) and has wandered off the course of Sendel Wheel and Michelin LTX tires. While means for the few that are invested in the thread it is OK and easy to digest as you have had months/years to view posts.

For the new person searching for Sendel Wheel and Michelin LTX tires data they have to plow through this two and a half year 630 + post thread to get here. The posts about taking pictures of tires!

Please create a new thread if you are going to have a discussion about tire treads, pictures and what the pictures of the tire thread mean.

Thank you

>>>>>>>>>>Action

[Ray Eklund]

Tireman Post #635- Since the trailer is in the RV Garage... I did everything you mentioned... wrong.

Action Post #637- Good point. Most who followed this Thread go the END, anyways.

When we are outdoors and getting natural lighting, I will get a photo example of what I am describing. Taking a photo of tire tread explanations is worth taking.

I have traveled highways and backroads of the Rockies. Not one problem with my choice in tires.

[Ray Eklund]

Last week a new owner left towing our former 2014 International 25 foot Airstream. The 16" wheels were a major factor in his choice. He plans to be using the Airstream as home, while doing welding work in the 'field' at remote locations and out sourcing his mobile welding vehicle for work.

I had no problems with the conversion to 16" wheels and LTX Michelin tires from ST tires.

This post will conclude my experiences of 4 years using 16" Michelin tires on our Airstream.

Michelin, of course, does not promote the use of their 'truck' tires to be used on a trailer in tow. The liability of not being designated as a ST tire, but not because being less of a tire, used on a trailer.

If you are afraid of using a LTX Michelin on your trailer, don't.

It is that simple. Those who need a reliable tire, do what is best for you and your family. If you do not curb your tires, hit pot holes on the Interstate Highways and overload your tow vehicle and trailer beyond capacity... you will be as satisfied as I have been with my choice.

Would I do it again if I were to purchase another Airstream or Some Other Brand?

If you have not figured out my response, by now... stick with the tires that the manufacturer of your trailer stuck on to get you off of their lot. You are among good company... many believe that whatever is attached to your vehicle or tow vehicle when new are in your best interest.

Our Airstream was our 'tent on wheels'. Times have changed for Public Lands and we have upgraded to our previous camping style. A Tent. Our renewing our Tent Camping is reopening access to more remote campsites. Call us... Happy Campers.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Last week a new owner left towing our former 2014 International 25 foot Airstream. The 16" wheels were a major factor in his choice. He plans to be using the Airstream as home, while doing welding work in the 'field' at remote locations and out sourcing his mobile welding vehicle for work.

I had no problems with the conversion to 16" wheels and LTX Michelin tires from ST tires.

This post will conclude my experiences of 4 years using 16" Michelin tires on our Airstream.

Michelin, of course, does not promote the use of their 'truck' tires to be used on a trailer in tow. The liability of not being designated as a ST tire, but not because being less of a tire, used on a trailer.

If you are afraid of using a LTX Michelin on your trailer, don't.

It is that simple. Those who need a reliable tire, do what is best for you and your family. If you do not curb your tires, hit pot holes on the Interstate Highways and overload your tow vehicle and trailer beyond capacity... you will be as satisfied as I have been with my choice.

Would I do it again if I were to purchase another Airstream or Some Other Brand?

If you have not figured out my response, by now... stick with the tires that the manufacturer of your trailer stuck on to get you off of their lot. You are among good company... many believe that whatever is attached to your vehicle or tow vehicle when new are in your best interest.

Our Airstream was our 'tent on wheels'. Times have changed for Public Lands and we have upgraded to our previous camping style. A Tent. Our renewing our Tent Camping is reopening access to more remote campsites. Call us... Happy Campers.

Hi Ray; only comment I have is the LTX Michelins in 15" are not true LT (light truck) rated tires now...Michelin does not offer an LT in 15" anymore, is what they told me. I purchased the 15" LTX M/S2 which were rated as passenger tires for my last 2014 25' FC. I towed for about 8 months before selling it. I thought the AS felt as though it was "drifting" at times when pulling with my F150; totally different feel from the earlier Light Truck rated Michelins I had on my 08' 25' AS or my 06 25' Safari. I run Michelin LT rated on my F250 but for now, I am staying with the 15" wheels that came with my 28', and running the new Endurance ST 15" tires...so far, so good...after re adjusting the pressure and setting for my AS weight, at 45-50psi...