16" Sendel Wheels & 16" Michelin LTX Tires

[xrvr]

Just wondering, thanks.

[Monza]

I ordered and received quickly and efficiently from these guys:
https://www.performanceplustire.com/...sendel-wheels/
if that helps you...

[TinTikiHut]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Just curious, did you get your wheels directly from AS?

I bought my Sendel/Michelin wheel package from Airstream on 8/15/16, while I was at Jackson Center getting warranty work done. I have recently noticed filliform corrosion near the lugnut area of the wheel. I have always kept the wheels clean and waxed. My AS is stored in a pole barn when not in use.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by avionstream

Just curious, did you get your wheels directly from AS?

*****
Post #1 I quoted the price and shipping from Performance Plus. Found on the internet and delivered by UPS to my door. Excellent service and so far, no issues. This would be a good price to judge a higher or lower current group deal.

We leave soon on an extended trip into Nevada, Idaho, Montana, and Utah. This will be a true test of the Michelin tires and Sendel wheels.

I suspect that wherever ice and snow are treated with chemicals or living near the ocean coastline... humidity and chemicals will work through minor dings through the clear coat. I would look at the rim edges FIRST where the tires are being mounted. I have noted on older units this is the first sign of chemical reactions with the aluminum.

Michelin is just an easy tire to acquire if the need arises. The more difficult a brand of tire is to find, of an equally dependable tire, it does reduce my desire to try an unknown option.

[switz]

I have never heard of the Sumitomo Encounter HT tire. I would do a thorough check on availability nation wide or where you plan on towing. Michelin tires are available every where.

All those "perks" imply to me a very limited distribution so they are doing lots of enticing to get sales.

[TinVenture]

Originally Posted by switz

I have never heard of the Sumitomo Encounter HT tire. I would do a thorough check on availability nation wide or where you plan on towing. Michelin tires are available every where.

All those "perks" imply to me a very limited distribution so they are doing lots of enticing to get sales.

I felt the same way when I first came across the tire brand. After lots of research, I found a plethora of articles highlighting the performance of the tires. Every independent review I was able to locate had raving reviews about the Encounter HT.

Here is one short article which talks about the tire and the brand:

http://www.tirereview.com/encountering-value/

Even all the consumer reviews I found had nothing but great things to say.

I was able to find these tires from Tire Rack, Tucker Tire, Big O Tire, Simple Tire, Vulcan Tire, Discounted Wheel Warehouse, ASAP Tire and Tire Kingdom.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by TinVenture

I felt the same way when I first came across the tire brand. After lots of research, I found a plethora of articles highlighting the performance of the tires. Every independent review I was able to locate had raving reviews about the Encounter HT.

Here is one short article which talks about the tire and the brand:

http://www.tirereview.com/encountering-value/

Even all the consumer reviews I found had nothing but great things to say.

I was able to find these tires from Tire Rack, Tucker Tire, Big O Tire, Simple Tire, Vulcan Tire, Discounted Wheel Warehouse, ASAP Tire and Tire Kingdom.

You can go to a truck stop and see what the commercial trucks are running, and this tire isn't one of them.....you can print anything including reviews, on my trucks I run the best you could buy and the cost per mile is lower than a cheaper off brand tire.....

[Ray Eklund]

This thread contains the experiences of those who have gone the Sendel and Michelin tire route. If there are problems with the use of 16" Michelins, or even those using 15" Michelins... this is the Thread to go to.

Other brands? Start a Thread and focus on those tires and wheels as an independent on going conversation. That is a much better way to follow the other brands of decent tires and wheels which get lost in this Thread. Many posts, like Switz's excellent reports of his experience with Michelins and Sendels... get lost with the chatter of outside debates.

There may be a number of outstanding tires out there. Knowing which begins with a new Thread. Then these individuals can source: Who makes them, Where they are made and focus onto their use on our Airstreams or Tow Vehicles.

During the Anti French wine and any other product days... Michelins were Made in France. Critics who rode bicycles to work wanted to bring Michelin down in the USA. This is not political nor an advertising venue for Some Other Brands against another. Just keep this to those with actual use and experience that is current and being used today.

Michelin tires and Sendel Wheels are going to be tested, posted upon and given the complete third degree of critical observation. At this moment in time, I am confident that this combination of tire and wheel works for me, and those who also were ready to make a change.

[Ray Eklund]

Finished a 4,475 miles of fully loaded trailer and tow vehicle from Boulder City, Nevada to Kalispell, Montana on Highway 95, returning on Highway 93 from Kalispell, MT back home at Boulder City, NV. A slight detour into western Wyoming and some of western Utah.

Trailer tires inflation were 66.4psi to 67.4psi. Michelin tires on F350 Ford at 65psi front and 80psi rear tires as factory specifications. Nitrogen filled from Costco.

This will no doubt be the LAST true Off the Grid Boondocking trip we plan to make this long. This trip tested tires and endurance of ourselves in some very desolate areas, where calculating fuel and distances to next Diesel fuel stop was needed.

No popped rivets.
No tire failures.
No unusual wear, other than the F350 front tires which need to be rotated every oil change to prevent tread 'cupping' of the FRONT tires. Trailer tires in the front and the rear show no difference in wear, and minimal tread wear at all, since this Thread was started.

I did note that the F350 E Rated Tires had lots of tire 'weights' for balancing. Heavy tires, but still a number of weights being applied.

I may review rotating trailer tires, but with no visible tire wear in either, not necessary at this time. But will keep watching for any wear differences.

This is with a full fresh water tank, three gallons in the Grey and Black Water, clothing food and full refrigerator, tools in outside compartments.

Absolutely NO ISSUES.

No noticeable rock toss back from deeper tire treads on trailer. I did pick up two rock dings on the top right front of the trailer from, no doubt, traffic passing the opposite direction. Also some dings on the stainless fender guards in the front the the Airstream.

The tires do not squeal when turning on pavement. Sometimes I would notice the tread marks on smooth pavement turning off of Service Station pavements. If it was mine, or not, would be another thing to check out. The F350 with the Equalizer Hitch can turn at angles UP TO 90 degrees! This is great in tight Off the Grid situations.

I include a niece's flat tire issue as what unusual tire punctures can encounter. Obviously traveled in a part of the City to avoid in the future...

[rmkrum]

Yikes! That's a bad sign...

And, no doubt, a ruined tire--cant patch or plug that cose to the edge of the tread.

[crispyboy]

Looks like a .223 caliber. Closest odd thing we ever had like that was a bone from road kill.

[Boxite]

I rarely buy things made overseas that have comparables made here in the USA (first choice) I prefer US made goods from union mfr's. (From the Sumitomo website: " The history of Sumitomo dates back to the early 17th century, when Masatomo Sumitomo (1585-1652) opened a book and medicine shop in Kyoto")

My second choice after the U.S. is North American goods, with first choice of those from Canada (good quality and good neighbors and ally) and second NA choice being Mexico. (I suggest that buying from Mexico is far better than overseas because it gives them jobs down there which improves their living conditions and less reason to come up here.)

Michelins are now made in the US/Canada and Mexico. So are Goodyears. There are a few others also made in Whacko, Texas that I would consider before going overseas for certain brands or their comrades.
I failed my own criteria when I bought my last set of trailer tires and will not make that error again.

A final consideration: When buying tires I insist to the selling dealer that they all come from the same exact source. I once rec'd a set of Michelins that two of which came out of Mexico and two out of Canada...and although the same size/model... measured differently such that a "wobble" existed at certain speeds. We could easily see the size difference when stood side-by-side.

[Ray Eklund]

I remember when Michelins were Made in France. When the French Boycott went to American Fries, boycott French Wines, Tires, Panty Hose... (made that one up) but I never had a problem with their tires Made in France.

My 2016 F350 has Michelin tires and I noticed that there sure are a lot of tire weights on the wheel for balancing. When cleaning out the truck after the last trip, there was a warranty brochure for another tire brand. Maybe it was General Tire... I tossed it out, but I thought it unusual, since the truck came with Michelins?

[Tn Traveler]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

I remember when Michelins were Made in France. When the French Boycott went to American Fries, boycott French Wines, Tires, Panty Hose... (made that one up) but I never had a problem with their tires Made in France.

My 2016 F350 has Michelin tires and I noticed that there sure are a lot of tire weights on the wheel for balancing. When cleaning out the truck after the last trip, there was a warranty brochure for another tire brand. Maybe it was General Tire... I tossed it out, but I thought it unusual, since the truck came with Michelins?

I believe I bought my first Michelin tires in the late 1950s. They were known then as Michelin X tires because of the 90 degree angle of construction. They were very much superior to the bias tires foisted on the American public. Then our tire makers had the great idea of competing the the foreign radials by trying to sell us bias/belted tires. What a piece of crap they were. Yes, Michelins made in France were high quality tires.

I switched to Michelin on my AS, and my car has Michelin Pilot Sports with a Y speed rating (that's rated to 186 mph). I trust Michelins.

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

....Trailer tires inflation were 66.4psi to 67.4psi. Michelin tires on F350 Ford at 65psi front and 80psi rear tires as factory specifications.....

Ray, I'm curious about the inflation pressures you mention. When you say "factory specifications" are you referring to the Ford factory inflation pressures and load information for an F350 shown on the door jamb stickers or are you referring to the maximum pressures shown on the tire sidewall?

According to Ford (and all other auto manufacturers I'm familiar with), the factory recommended inflation pressure is usually less than the maximum pressure allowed for the tires. My F150, for example is rated by Ford for it's maximum load at 35PSI (cold). According to the contacts I had with Ford when I got my truck and trailer, there is no benefit to load carrying by increasing tire pressure beyond this.

Also, tires are supposed to be set to their recommended pressures when cold and can easily pick up 10+ pounds of pressure on a hot day. If tires are set to their maximum (I'm assuming 65 and 80 pounds are maximum allowable pressures) when cold then on a hot day pressure could easily rise well above the maximum.

While I've had a lot of experience with cars and automotive tires I don't know that much about towing so I'll freely admit that maybe I'm missing something important here. I'd honestly appreciate it if you or anyone else could help further my towing education around proper tire pressures.

[Ray Eklund]

Mikeinca.... The 18" Michelin tires on the F350 are rated up to 80psi maximum cold pressure. The 16" Michelin tires on the International are also rated to 80psi.

The door has 65psi for the front tires and 80psi for the rear tires. I took the truck to Costco and for a minimal charge, they purge compressed air out and inflate with nitrogen, purge, and then add nitrogen up to pressure.

Over the years and with quality tires, there is a minor if any loss in psi over time when driven and pressure 'cold checked'. Some dismiss Nitrogen as a gimmick... but it is an excellent gimmick and works well for me.

The trailer's 16" Michelins are rated up to 80psi. I like them at 65psi Cold Nitrogen. If I discover I am leaving too much tire markings on turning onto pavement from a Service Station, I may add some psi to reduce friction.

Many recommend that you have less psi so not to create a stiffness in ride to the... Airstream, and avoid popping interior rivets and structural fatigue. I like to be able to turn the 25 foot Airstream so that with the psi around 65, the tires turn without any effort. Less pressure and you get to a point where you see the side belts 'ripple'. Just from observation of other trailers.

The nitrogen seems to maintain it pressure better than compressed air, which in some areas contains more water vapor. Even if they have a system to remove water vapor... who knows for sure. I do not.

I am comfortable driving the F350 with 'firm' tires. It accelerates and stops fine. Unloaded on a series of waves in the road, you CAN get 'rear end' hop, but if you are aware... this has not been an issue. Loaded... it rides solid, firm and comfortable. I have a Leer shell over the bed, so that adds some weight to this hop, if you know what I mean.

Since installing the 16" Michelins on the 25 Foot International... no additional rivets popped. The five interior pop rivets I have replaced with a specific self threading screw that I use to replace those rivets that were 'popped' with the original 15" Goodyear Marathons. So it is not a TIRE issue, but a structural issue with the tension of aluminum sheets within the trailer. The majority all are on the CURVED SECTION of the interior. This seems to be a common complaint among other owners as well. I do not make, too much, of this up with opinion, but actual experience.

This, of course, can be debated until I pass away... but am sticking to this until I do.

The F150 is leaning more to ride and comfort. The F250/350 owners give up the ride and comfort for that armored tank handling when empty, and just stiff ride when loaded.

Am I comfortable with this arrangement. Yes. The last trip of 4,400+ miles, the front tires of the F350 have a slight edge wear on the tread behind the front edge tread. I rub my finger along the edge and feel it. Ford wants the tires rotated every oil change... and this could be why. My 2006 and 2014 Tundra's Michelins... it mattered very little about uneven wear or tire rotation.

This works for me. I have not had any tire issues with these, nor the short period I had the 15" Marathons. I did have a back cabinet by the rear bed vibrate the screws out of their mounts... so will get that upgraded so it will not happen again.

The Equalizer Hitch, 1,000 bars, the 16" Michelins, F350 and Airstream are running tight, no sway, no clunking since I shimmed the 3" shank and can finally say... I am one 'Happy Camper'.

[Action]

Originally Posted by mikeinca

Also, tires are supposed to be set to their recommended pressures when cold and can easily pick up 10+ pounds of pressure on a hot day. If tires are set to their maximum (I'm assuming 65 and 80 pounds are maximum allowable pressures) when cold then on a hot day pressure could easily rise well above the maximum.

Tires inflated to max side wall pressure cold are not overinflated after use. Tires are designed for cold inflation pressures only. After inflating to proper pressure when cold, checking pressure when hot means very little. If the circumstance requires a cold inflation pressure to max side wall pressure, reducing tire pressure when hot means the tire will be overloaded.

>>>>>>>>>Action

[mikeinca]

Ray, thanks for the complete and thoughtful answer. The last "heavy duty" truck I owned was a '77 Ford 3/4 ton and I honestly don't remember what the tire pressure recommendations were on that vehicle!

I have a 2017 F250 on the way and it will be interesting to see how the TP recommendations vary from the F150 and what settings end up "feeling" the best to me. I appreciate your input.

Mike

[mikeinca]

Originally Posted by Action

Tires inflated to max side wall pressure cold are not overinflated after use. Tires are designed for cold inflation pressures only. After inflating to proper pressure when cold, checking pressure when hot means very little. If the circumstance requires a cold inflation pressure to max side wall pressure, reducing tire pressure when hot means the tire will be overloaded.

>>>>>>>>>Action

I'm used to dealing with proper tire inflation for maximum performance, not maximum load, so I suppose that is skewing my perspective. For example, the Michelin Sport Cup tires on my Porsche GT3 are very sensitive to inflation pressure and temperature and for optimal lap times they need to be readjusted to within a fairly narrow band, especially after they heat up. Having said that, I know that passenger car tires should not be adjusted when hot, although their handling characteristics may change with temperature.

In any event, I've never owned any vehicle that required, or even came close to requiring, the maximum pressure on the sidewall. I'm slowly learning more about this towing business, and apparently I need to reprogram my mind set!

[Boxite]

The reason tire mfr max load pressure differs from vehicle recommended tire pressures is because the two mfr's have different goals.

The tire mfr'r is supplying the customer the pressure at which that tire will carry it's maximum load/capacity.

But the vehicle mfr's know that their vehicle's gross wt (which includes all fuel, pax, and cargo) is LESS than the maximum capacity of the tire supplied on that vehicle. (Which makes perfect sense. Would you prefer that Ford/GM/whoever put a tire on your new vehicle which did not meet the max capacity of that vehicle? Of course not. So the vehicle mfr's installs a tire which has more capacity than the vehicle owner is expected to operate.)

However... IF the vehicle owner inflates the tire to the TIRE max pressure for max load.... (and the vehicle weighs less than that capacity, of course)... the tire will WEAR OUT THE CENTER of the tread because the tire is over-inflated for the load actually being carried. Therefore the vehicle mfr'r recommends the correct tire pressure to properly place the tire-tread evenly applied to the road surface. (Over inflation wears out the center of the tread and may even lift the inside/outside of the tread off the pavement.... which reduces traction. Under inflation wears the inside/outside tread excessively and damages the tire sidewalls with too much flexing and heat.)

So the bottom line is: Inflate the tire to the VEHICLE mfr's recommended pressure...which will almost always be less than the tire mfr's max recommended pressure. (If it's NOT less than the tire mfr's max recommendation... you do not have a tire of sufficient quality and capability for the vehicle.)

Nitrogen: It's pretty much a crock for ordinary vehicles. Here's why:
78% of the atmosphere is Nitrogen (N). If you take air from a shop compressor and put it in your tire...you have 78% N in your tire. You have about 20% oxygen, and 2% Carbon Dioxide and other trace amounts of various gases. If your tire loses 5% pressure (because of the claims made by Nitrogen-sellers/proponents) and you refill your tire with that ordinary, atmospheric compressed air containing 78% Nitrogen... you have now ENRICHED the total N content within your tire. Each time you check and fill your tires with N you enrich it more and more. After about 5 such episodes you are above 98% pure Nitrogen (according to the mechanical engineer in our church.)

Some folks tell the story of airplanes which almost always use Nitrogen in their tires and therefore if it's good for airplanes it must be worth the $100 the dealers charge for it to be in your car/trailer/motorcycle/bike/whatever.

Horth thit.

Large airplanes use Nitrogen because they also use it in their landing-gear oleo-stuts (shock absorbers) at high pressures (around 1000 psi or more) and that level of pressure cannot be obtained easily from ordinary air compressors. The airport has 2000 psi Nitrogen bottles on carts which are easily pulled around the ramp with baggage-cart tugs to service landing gear oleos... and airplane tires.... which commonly operate at 200 psi (also a pressure common air compressors do not produce.) THAT is the major reason large airplanes use Nitrogen.... It's simply easier and cheaper than finding compressors that can produce that kind of pressures and still be small enough to pull around to service airplanes. The compressed N-bottles are smaller, cheaper, easier.

Minor reasons in addition to that reason are the fact that Nitrogen being the most common gas in the atmosphere means that Nitrogen is CHEAP. (makes one wonder why auto dealers charge so damn much for it, heh? Ans: because they can.)
Another reason for Nitrogen in airplane tires is because airliners and jets fly at 35K' and above where the temperature is minus -40 degrees or more and if any moisture in the tire becomes frozen it may remain so until touch-down where the sudden wheel spin-up might turn it to steam and blow a tire. (BTW, small airplanes rarely bother with Nitrogen unless that's what the aircraft shop just happens to offer them. Nitrogen bottles are so common around airports that Nitrogen is often the simplest method to refill a tire...even if small airplanes have little reason to need or desire the stuff.)

The often-quoted features of Nitrogen as conducive to long-lives for rubber tires, etc. is more horth thit.... because the amount of time added to the life of YOUR vehicle's tires is meaningless. You will wear out your tires LONG before the minor-gases in the tires damage them. Besides... what are you going to do to keep the ordinary atmosphere OUTSIDE your tire from degrading it?

The claim that Nitrogen is more stable and leads to less air leakage than ordinary compressed air is a true statement. BUT... since you ALWAYS check your tire pressures before each trip..... SO WHAT..??? (And it's NOT true that NO leakage occurs with Nitrogen. N leaks out of tires for the same reasons any gas will leak out... the tires/tubes/valves are not fully leakproof. The molecules of air OR nitrogen will both still find a way out of that tire eventually and will eventually require replenishment, although N molecules are larger and leak a bit more slowly. You STILL must check and refill your tires to maintain proper pressures.

After all,... if Nitrogen didn't leak out of tires.... then why do you suppose so many baggage-cart tugs run around airport ramps re-filling airplane tires?
Doh.

Do what makes you feel good. Both my planes and all my vehicles use ordinary compressed air from my shop compressor which, like most professional shop compressors, have dryers on the outlet.