16" Sendel Wheels & 16" Michelin LTX Tires

[Moflash]

Originally Posted by cando

Interesting thought MOFLASH, having the same irritations with my 25 ft. Trailer and 2012 Tundra. Mileage is worse and the moaning and groaning uphill drives me nuts vs. my same 2007 Tundra with trailer tires. Wouldn't go back, however, with 5 tire failures with the trailer tires. No problems the past 3 years with the Michelin tires.



What size is your trailer and what do you tow with?

We have a 28ft International that we towed with a new 2010 F150 5.4 Supercrew initially then after 20k mi we upgraded to new 2012 f350 6.7 and currently tow with a 2015 F350 6.7 SuperCrew single rear wheel long box 172' wheelbase.
Switching to 16's does not increase the rolling resistance as mentioned above.


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[switz]

Getting out of the Phoenix area to go north or east requires us to do lots of up and down movement thru the mountains. We see 10.5 to 11.5 mpg while maintaining the lower of 65 mph or the posted. On the flats we crowd 13.5 to 14.0 depending if the wind is with us or against us.

I installed the 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels and Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S tires as soon as I got the 2014 31' Classic off the dealers lot. We run 72/73 psi since I know the exact weight on each tire. We are towing with a 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins and cross the scales at 19,200 pounds when loaded for camping.

We replaced the stock 14" tires and wheels with the 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels and Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires on the 2015 23D International Serenity that weighs 6,068 pounds ready to camp. We are well within the tire limits as I know the weights on each wheel. We carry 44 psi in both the car and trailer tires and tow it with a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI V6 3.0L diesel and can see 10-11mpg in the mountains and 15-16 mpg on the flats. Since the engine is much smaller, it is happiest at 55 mph and can maintain that speed on most inclines dropping back to 4th from 7th and 3,100 rpm.

[Powerarrangr]

Hey, thanks for all of the replies!

Brakes and bearings don't appear to get too hot when rolling. I re torqued the Nev-R-Lube bearings to make sure things were rolling smoothly. Didn't really see much difference afterwards.

On a hot day the tires would run around 100*F or so. Hard to tell the bearing temps with the hub cover in the way, but all four wheels are within a couple of degrees of each other.

I've ordered TPMS sensors for the GYMs and will install soon. The truck seems happier with them and the fuel economy has improved to around 17 MPG.

Maybe there's something wrong with the truck, but I personally think it's the gearing. It's probably designed for daily driving with that tall top gear and final drive. It runs great, it's just hard to find that sweet spot when towing in hilly terrain.

I'm going to drag the Airstream around with another truck to see if there's any improvement. I'll report back with results.

[xrvr]

Perhaps using overdrive is incorrect. I've always been told so.

[Moflash]

Originally Posted by Powerarrangr

Hey, thanks for all of the replies!



Brakes and bearings don't appear to get too hot when rolling. I re torqued the Nev-R-Lube bearings to make sure things were rolling smoothly. Didn't really see much difference afterwards.



On a hot day the tires would run around 100*F or so. Hard to tell the bearing temps with the hub cover in the way, but all four wheels are within a couple of degrees of each other.



I've ordered TPMS sensors for the GYMs and will install soon. The truck seems happier with them and the fuel economy has improved to around 17 MPG.



Maybe there's something wrong with the truck, but I personally think it's the gearing. It's probably designed for daily driving with that tall top gear and final drive. It runs great, it's just hard to find that sweet spot when towing in hilly terrain.



I'm going to drag the Airstream around with another truck to see if there's any improvement. I'll report back with results.

How are you retorqueing your bearings?


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[pegmurphy]

Hi,
I've been reading through this forum - the posts I've seen are all for trailers bigger than my 2016 Flying Cloud 20. I want to put on the absolutely safest wheel and tire combo. Will the 16 inch Michelin LTX fit on my smaller unit? Tires and wheels are not a topic I'm knowledgeable about- and I'd like to go to tire store better educated! I'll be traveling lots by myself so want to mitigate risk as much as possible! Thank you!

[OTRA15]

The 20-footer thread has quite a bit of info. on this, and yes the 16" combo seems to fit well. The upgrade is in our wish list for next year.

[Ray Eklund]

I am 100% content and satisfied with my going to 16" wheels and 16" tires.

I have had no issues. The Equalizer Hitch performs just as well with 16" tires as it did with 15" tires. The increased tire pressure has not created any additional popped or loose rivets. Absolutely nothing negative has occurred, which may be a disappointment to some naysayers from Goodyear Marathon 'trailer' tires.

Oliver Trailers in the 23 foot and 25 foot lengths already use 16" tires as factory standard equipment. Oliver Trailers cost half as much as an Airstream and may be better for reliability. Time will tell when owners put them to all the possible extremes of trailer uses.

Braking is fine. Wheel bearings are fine. Fender wells are fine. Sway is zero on any highway conditions. Absolutely nothing has changed, other than myself being more confident in the E Rated tires performance and the increase of road safety.

The 2017 Season will be one year of camping in all road conditions. My Airstream will be tested to its potential. My Michelin tires will be tested to their potential. My 2016 F350 diesel with Michelin LTX tires will be tested in performance.

I now have exactly what someone should have explained to me when I purchased our first Airstream. These are upgrades to what was acceptable at one time. Current Airstreams are now coming around to these improvements. About time. Keep the pressure of positive improvements on our Airstreams to future owners.

Being 'adequate' should never be the Airstream 'motto'. Ever.

[switz]

Since the 16" tires would not fit in the 2015 23D International Serenity wheel wells, we replaced the stock 14" tires and wheels with 15" SenDel T03-56545T wheels and 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires with Centramatic wheel balancers (part #200-221) and a Dill 1506-453 TPMS. These are more than adequate for the weight they are carrying.

They have the same design as the 16" SenDel T03-66655T wheels on our Classic.

[Ray Eklund]

My first and last experience with 14" Marathon tires on our 23 foot Safari. This was a blowout on a DIRT road and did not even notice it until we stopped. There was a large plume of dust behind us, but I thought it was just the dust on the road and wind.

The trailer was under 12 months old. I replaced all as soon as we were in a city with better tire options. It was the Second Marathon gone bad. First was with bubbles in the outside rubber surface. Then this blowout. Luckily... no damage.

New 23 footers now seem to have 15" Marathons, and are much more reliable. Still not worth the risk so when I purchased the 25 foot International, I immediately went to 16" Michelins and have had no issues.

I did learn better options how to remove and attach the spare tire after this blowout. Also replaced all of the lug nuts with solid ones without the flimsy chrome coverings that came standard.

[deserthi]

[QUOTE=m.hony;1767034]Just because it is hard and getting harder to find 15" LT Load Range E tires in the 225 or 235 aspect ratio.
15" LT tires are scarce and only getting scarcer.

It funny, if this is the only reason, I can find 235/15 load range xl (which is higher then load range E) all day long.
Because of all the tires I find in that 15" size I have to believe there is another reason people are moving to 16" wheels.
http://tires.tirerack.com/tires/235%2075%2015

[switz]

The stock GoodYear Marathon ST225/75R15D tires used by Airstream are load rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi.

I have used the 15" Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL tires (passenger) that are side wall load rated 2,183 pounds @ 50 psi but must be derated to 1,985 pounds for trailer use per the Federal regulation below. I used them on a 2013 25FB International Serenity which had a GVW of 7,300 pounds and two 3,800 pound axles. I am currently using a new set of them on a 2015 23D International Serenity with a GVW of 6,000 pounds and two 3,000 pound rated axles.

***************************************

49 CFR 571.110

Tire selection and rims and motor home/recreation vehicle trailer load carrying capacity information for motor vehicles with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less.

S4.2.2.1

Except as provided in S4.2.2.2, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle shall not be less than the GAWR of the axle system as specified on the vehicle's certification label required by 49 CFR part 567. If the certification label shows more than one GAWR for the axle system, the sum shall be not less than the GAWR corresponding to the size designation of the tires fitted to the axle.

S4.2.2.2

When passenger car tires are installed on an MPV, truck, bus, or trailer, each tire's load rating is reduced by dividing it by 1.10 before determining, under S4.2.2.1, the sum of the maximum load ratings of the tires fitted to an axle.

S4.2.2.3

(a) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with passenger car tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

(b) For vehicles, except trailers with no designated seating positions, equipped with LT tires, the vehicle normal load on the tire shall be no greater than 94 percent of the load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure for that tire.

***********************************

The 15" Michelins have been used by some owners on the 26/27/28 foot models with a GVW of 7,600 pounds and the same 3,800 pound rated axles but there is less safety margin. These same tires have also been installed on the three axle 34' models which have a GVW of 11,500 pounds but the lowest load per tire since there are six of them.

Folks with the heavier trailers have installed the 16" Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires that are rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi and they are light truck rated tires so do not need to be derated. Our 2014 31' Classic has two 5,000 pound rated axles and the 15" Michelin tires above are not rated for that much load so 16" Michelins were the choice for me.

The 16" Michelins were stock on some of the Eddie Bauer models (GVW of 7,800 pounds) and the 2016 Pendleton model (GVW 7,800 pounds). They are now stock on the 31' Classics starting in 2015.

There is a 16" Michelin tire and a SenDel T03-66655T wheel on display at the door of the customer service center at the Airstream factory in Jackson Center, Ohio. They will gladly sell and install them on any 25' or longer wide body trailer. Some owners have even installed them the heavier single axle 19' model which has a 4,300 pound axle in the USA and a 5,000 pound axle in Canada.

The cross section width of the tire is limited due to the wheel well design.

[wmcneil]

Originally Posted by switz

The stock GoodYear Marathon ST225/75R15D tires used by Airstream are load rated 2,540 pounds @ 65 psi.
...

switz, thank you for providing all the detailed information. I have recently purchased a 2011 25' FC that has the original GYMs on it, so I have been reading up on the tire issues. The GVWR on my FC is 7300, so the Michelin Defender 235/75R15 tires would still provide 13% more weight rating than the GVWR allows. They also avoid the expense of five new wheels, which is not trivial, so it is good to consider all the data before making a decision. One thing I noted on the tirerack website that is slightly different than what you posted. The non-derated max weight on the Defender LTX 235/75R15 is shown as 2271, which translates to 2065 after the de-rating. This is slightly larger than the numbers you quoted, I am wondering if Michelin has boosted the ratings recently?

[switz]

The Michelin Defender series replaced the the Michelin LTX (P) 235/75R15 XL model we purchased in both 2012 and 2015. And yes, they did increase the load capacity on the new series which increases the safety margin by about 80 pounds of load capacity. They could more appropriately now be used on the 26/27/28 models with 7,600 pound GVW ratings (but not the Land Yacht with a 8,200 pound GVW). To be sure, one would need to weigh the trailer fully loaded for camping and get the individual wheel loadings. One tire could be carrying more load than the others.

The fully loaded camping ready tire loading on our 23D is:

Tongue………928
Front….1,280……1,246 - total front axle 2,526
Rear…..1,376……1,233 - total rear axle 2,609
Total Axles………5,135
Total Trailer….6,063

so the 15" Michelin tires we installed had a significant load capacity reserve of about 30% on the street side rear tire and higher on the other three tires. That street side rear tire carries the shower & toilet and gray and black water tanks that are small but on the side of the trailer.

Our Classic numbers are:

Classic scale numbers with Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tires rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi purchased at the end of 2013. That model has been replaced by the Michelin Defender series as well.

……….1200 ———————1200

2034…………..2042 ——— 4076

1921…………..2062 ——— 3983

____________________9259

which shows nearly a 25% load safety margin. The lower street side rear weight reflects the removal of the six gallon water heater nearly 50 pounds of dead weight.

[charlesk]

Switz,

Thanks for the information. We have a 30' International with 15" wheels and tires. Since we are now full-timing, back and forth across the country, I would like to upgrade to 16" Michelin. Thought I had all of the information collected and headed out to a Discount Tire location. Evidently I am missing some specifics.

Woud you check my description and part numbers for correct purchase.

5 - Michelin LT225/75R16 (LTX M/S2)
5 - Sendel T03 16" 66655T
4 - Centramatic 300-356 A Plate
1 - Dill TPMS 1506-453 ( 5 - sensors)

When I presented the list to Discount Tire, they had to look up the Sendel wheels - like they have never heard of them. They had no idea what the Centramatic balances were and stated they could not source. They also said that they could not install the Dill TPMS even though they had a demo unit sitting right there on the counter.

Or, if you have a recommendation in SW US where I could purchase and even have installed let me know.

Thanks,

Chuck

[2012FB]

It has been about 6 months now since I replaced the GYM 225/75R15 tires on 2015 30' Bunk with Nokian Rotiiva AT All Season LT235/75R15 116/113 S (up to 112 mph, max load 2760 lb) and could not be happier. Especially just coming back from Mesa, AZ last week in heavy snow at times. Great tires. No need for 16" upgrade.


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[millertimeUS]

Chuck, I bought exactly what is on your list my 76'.

I got the tires and had them installed at Costco (they had no issues installing the Dill TPMS sensors)

I got the sensors from tire rack.com

Sendel wheels online delivered to my door from I believe king of wheels.

Centramatics straight from the company.

Just carry the sensors and tires to Costco and they will install. Then install the centramatics when you replace your current trailer tires.


Just don't leave your old rims and tires near the curb like I did, in CA that is the equivalent of 'please take me', I turned around and they were gone in less than 30 min. Hope they enjoy those bulging Marathons!

[switz]

The SenDel part number is T03-66655T for the 16" wheel used by Airstream. I used the 15" SenDel T03-56545T for the five lug 14" wheel replacements on the 23D 10" brake drums for the 15" Michelin tire upgrade. There is also a 15" wheel (T03-56655T) to fit the usual 6 lug pattern of the 12" brake drum.

http://sendelwheel.com/wheels/t03bm.html

Note that there is a black highlighted wheel model in each size using the same number but replacing the last letter "T" with the letters "BM". The "T" model is all polished aluminum.

For the 16" spare, we ordered the SenDel S62-66655TG galvanized steel spare wheel rated 3,500 pounds @ 80 psi. They were around $50 plus freight and tax in 2013. We did initially order five of the 16" aluminum wheels at $103 each plus freight and tax in 2013 from a local Discount tire in Mesa, AZ to have a battle spare matching aluminum wheel for the future. We used an inexpensive 15" trailer steel wheel for the23D spare, but also ordered five aluminum wheels.

The Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 tire rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi is 29.2" in diameter and the Michelin part number of the day was 05681. The pertainent numbers are LT225/75R16/E for any vendor. The load range "E" load capacity is the same across brands

Centramatic.com for the wheelbalancers. Call 800-523-8473 and order directly bypassing sales tax. They are $199 plus UPS. Located in the Dallas area.

Centramatic Part Numbers for Airstream use:

14" 5 bolt pattern #200-221 standard part

15" 6 bolt pattern #200-221 Special

16" 6 bolt pattern #300-356 all A plates

I use the #300-318 Centramatic parts on the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins 4x4 and also had motorcycle specific ones on both GoldWing motorcycles. The motorcycle wheels were never balanced again and the weights were taken off the wheels. They were "in perfect balance" after ten feet of movement.

The Dill TPMS #1506-453 sender replaces the standard valve stem. Each sender unit has a letter that needs to be marked on the tire for reference of it's location on the vehicle to properly place the receiver chips in the receiving display. The nomenclature shows that six receivers will come with a 0.453" valve stem diameter. It includes the #1900 display. We did use the external magnetic mount antenna and placed it of the frame of the Curt 15409 receiver rated for a 17,000 pound trailer with 2,550 pounds of tongue weight. We cut off the factory receiver.

Note that the spare tire sender receiver chip is not installed in the #1900 display until the spare wheel is on the ground. An error code will be thrown if the receiver chip is not sending a signal if the other four are operating. The spare receiver chip is placed into the slot of the removed tire.

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

It has been about 6 months now since I replaced the GYM 225/75R15 tires on 2015 30' Bunk with Nokian Rotiiva AT All Season LT235/75R15 116/113 S (up to 112 mph, max load 2760 lb) and could not be happier. Especially just coming back from Mesa, AZ last week in heavy snow at times. Great tires. No need for 16" upgrade.


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This is the way I'm leaning. I plan on doing this sometime in April.

Mike

[CruizinDux]

Originally Posted by Caffeinated

This is the way I'm leaning. I plan on doing this sometime in April.

Mike

Us as well Not sure on the timing.

Bob