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Old 08-26-2016, 02:00 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
My decision was based on that the OE wheels on the Eddie Bauer with the wide black fender trim had the black inlays and the OE wheels on the new Classic have silver inlays.
I have a 2013 Classic.


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Ah that's cool. We have an International Signature, and thought the EB wheels would be nice. We're both right.
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Old 08-26-2016, 05:29 AM   #226
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My wife works at the public library.
I'm gonna get her to check out Travels with Charley for me.


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Old 08-26-2016, 10:50 AM   #227
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M&S = Mud and Slop?

Michelin M & S.... = Michelin Mud and Slop

Those of us in Snow Country know how aggressive actual snow tire treads are. I do not need or desire to have 'snow tires' on my tow vehicle and for sure, not on my Airstream.

I also do not know what M&S means.

In wet compact snow on pavement... good luck on any tire. The wider the tire, the worse traction. Been there, done that... learned the hard way in Wyoming.

In dry snow... the M&S are fine.
In moderate muddy and sloppy all season Forest Service roads... M&S are fine.
In muddy soil... bring a tow truck for anyone getting into this mess.

I am sure there are many other brands that are dependable. Buy them for YOUR tow vehicle and/or trailer. When I find a product that works well for me... I tend to stick with it.

Michelin's have a warranty. Never needed to used it, so cannot say if it is of any value.
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Old 08-26-2016, 10:59 AM   #228
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Better Tires seem to always Weigh MORE

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
Ray was the above thread this thread, a different thread on AF or elsewhere?

You're speaking of LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 correct?

I'm thinking of using these on my TV but dropping down from 19" rims to 17's, then the following year the going with the 16" sendels and the above.

Thx

Bob
*******

This could be another Thread I made comment and directing them to follow some of the great information supplied by others on this Thread.

My first job was working at Sears Catalog in Kansas City, Missouri, Department 28 Automotive for $1.25 an hour. When removing tires from the trucks bringing in inventory... we, those rolling them into the warehouse, KNEW which tires had rubber by weight and the cheap tires you could roll two at a time.

... Die Hard batteries were also a treat. Die HARD? They seemed to die mid warranty so you would pay to have the battery replaced under warranty. Almost like a captive customer. Also had a group on a trickle charge for the next live one...
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Old 08-26-2016, 12:16 PM   #229
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Yes, the higher the load range, the more plies, and the longer the tread life, the heavier the tires are. More rubber and steel and whatever else is in the guts of a tire- kevlar?
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Old 08-27-2016, 10:26 AM   #230
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OK, some FYI's:

1) The definition of *M&S* is a geometric definition described in words written by the RMA (Rubber Manufacturers Association). It is not based on any testing (except to say that you can *test* against the words in the definition.) Please note: I couldn't find a link to the definition, so it must exist off line in some publication.

Also, the symbol between the M and the S can also be +, -, /, or no symbol at all.

2) Higher Load Range = more plies? Not exactly. As a general rule, higher load range means more inflation pressure, and you need more strength to cope with that higher pressure - BUT - there are enough variations in material properties that pretty much all LT and ST tires only need 2 plies of polyester.

3) Long tread life = heavier tire? Not exactly. Tread compounds can vary quite a bit - from grippy, but short lived, to long wearing, but not so grippy - and they weigh pretty much the same.

Not to mention that some tires have more tread depth than others, and they may weigh more, but that difference can be completely negated by the tread compound.

And the amount of steel or *whatever* is not much of a factor in tire wear - and certainly no manufacturer puts in extra steel or *whatever* to improve tire wear.

4) Tire Weight = Quality? Not exactly. Some of the best tires are pretty light. High quality tire manufacturers know how to properly engineer a tire with minimal weight - where poor quality tire manufacturers don't.
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:19 PM   #231
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The following tires are commonly used on Airstreams, listed in order by weight:
  • 31 pounds - Goodyear Marathon, ST225/75x15, Special Trailer, Load Range D, 65 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 32 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, P235/75x15XL, Extra Load Passenger Car Tire, 50 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 34 pounds - Michelin Defender LTX M/S, 235/75x15XL, Extra Load Passenger Car Tire, 50 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 38 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, LT225/75X16, Light Truck, Load Range E, 80 psi, 2 ply polyester, 3 steel radial belts *

  • 49 pounds - Michelin XPS Rib, LT225/75x16, Light Truck, Load Range E, 80 psi, 1-ply steel, 3 steel radial belts *

In my opinion, this order also reflects increases in price, relative load-carrying capacity, resistance to failure (due to belt slippage, tread separation and blowouts), and tread wear.

Note: We are on our second set of LTX M/S2's on our 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax; and our 2005 19' Bambi still has its first set of XPS Ribs on it (with absolutely no tire problems) since switching from ST tires 5.5 years ago.


* Most members with these 16" tires appear to still be on their first set since switching from OEM 15" wheels and ST tires; and the posts I recall reading seem to indicate negligible tread wear. Just curious, has anyone replaced these because the tread was worn out? Or, has anybody replaced them due to age? - Comments?
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:29 PM   #232
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Oh, forgot to ask the obvious question:

Has anyone had a Michelin 16" LT tire failure due to belt slippage, tread separation or blowout?
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Old 08-27-2016, 02:09 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
The following tires are commonly used on Airstreams, listed in order by weight:
  • 31 pounds - Goodyear Marathon, ST225/75x15, Special Trailer, Load Range D, 65 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 32 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, P235/75x15XL, Extra Load Passenger Car Tire, 50 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 34 pounds - Michelin Defender LTX M/S, 235/75x15XL, Extra Load Passenger Car Tire, 50 psi, 2-ply polyester, 2 steel radial belts

  • 38 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, LT225/75X16, Light Truck, Load Range E, 80 psi, 2 ply polyester, 3 steel radial belts *

  • 49 pounds - Michelin XPS Rib, LT225/75x16, Light Truck, Load Range E, 80 psi, 1-ply steel, 3 steel radial belts *

In my opinion, this order also reflects increases in price, relative load-carrying capacity, resistance to failure (due to belt slippage, tread separation and blowouts), and tread wear.

Note: We are on our second set of LTX M/S2's on our 2008 Toyota Tundra CrewMax; and our 2005 19' Bambi still has its first set of XPS Ribs on it (with absolutely no tire problems) since switching from ST tires 5.5 years ago.


* Most members with these 16" tires appear to still be on their first set since switching from OEM 15" wheels and ST tires; and the posts I recall reading seem to indicate negligible tread wear. Just curious, has anyone replaced these because the tread was worn out? Or, has anybody replaced them due to age? - Comments?
The load ranges would be helpful. MIchelin makes it difficult to find the load ratings of their tires, but I did discover the 34 lb Defender LTX M/S, 235/75x15XL can carry 2271 lbs. single axle. That would push the limit on my 22' Sport.
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Old 08-27-2016, 02:38 PM   #234
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Re: Tires - Maximum Load

Maximum load:
  • 2,540 pounds - Goodyear Marathon, ST225/75x15, Special Trailer, Load Range D

  • 2,183 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, P235/75x15XL

  • 2,271 pounds - Michelin Defender LTX M/S, 235/75x15XL

  • 2,680 pounds - Michelin LTX M/S2, LT225/75X16

  • 2,680 pounds - Michelin XPS Rib, LT225/75x16
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Old 08-27-2016, 05:10 PM   #235
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LTX M/S2 is Correct....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
*******

This could be another Thread I made comment and directing them to follow some of the great information supplied by others on this Thread.

My first job was working at Sears Catalog in Kansas City, Missouri, Department 28 Automotive for $1.25 an hour. When removing tires from the trucks bringing in inventory... we, those rolling them into the warehouse, KNEW which tires had rubber by weight and the cheap tires you could roll two at a time.

... Die Hard batteries were also a treat. Die HARD? They seemed to die mid warranty so you would pay to have the battery replaced under warranty. Almost like a captive customer. Also had a group on a trickle charge for the next live one...
******

Took a flashlight and looked at my Trailer's tires... LTX M/S2 is correct.

LT225 / 75R16 LTX M/S2

My tow vehicle are LTX A/T2's

CruzinDux brought this up on Post #217.

I also see the differences in tires on Posts #231 & 234 by Phoenix.

Thank you for getting my tires back on their... rims.
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Old 08-27-2016, 07:48 PM   #236
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Thanks for the follow up Ray. I'll check out the two posts you referenced. I had originally planned to go with the same tire LT225 / 75R16 LTX M/S2 (appropriately sized) for the TV and Toad. Probably won't opt for the LTX A/T2 as we don't boondock or back-road but will take a second look.


Thanks for the feedback.
Bob
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Old 08-27-2016, 08:21 PM   #237
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M/S2 has less aggressive tread than the A/T2

Quote:
Originally Posted by CruizinDux View Post
Thanks for the follow up Ray. I'll check out the two posts you referenced. I had originally planned to go with the same tire LT225 / 75R16 LTX M/S2 (appropriately sized) for the TV and Toad. Probably won't opt for the LTX A/T2 as we don't boondock or back-road but will take a second look.
Thanks for the feedback.
Bob
******
I will compare the tire tread of the M/S2 and the A/T2 LTX's. Our 2008 Land Cruiser has the P275 65R18 LT A/T2 as well as our Ford F350 LT275 70R18 LTX A/T2's.

Our 25 footer has M/S2 Michelin's.

OK. Now there is a big difference in tire treads:

A/T2 LTX have a more aggressive tread pattern
M/S2 has a less aggressive tread pattern, more in line with a trailer's need.

For a trailer I would have chosen the M/S2 on my own. I would call it more of a passenger car tread pattern. This is what apparently Costco feels is appropriate for trailers.

Better than the no tread used on UHaul trucks which can get stuck on a banana peel.

Again... M/S meaning?... although CapriRacer tossed out an idea. It obviously has to do with the tread pattern... but still not content with what it means. The '2' may be the second generation so they can charge more than the '1' generation.... These would NOT do well on mud, snow, sleet, slop, cow patty's and other similar road conditions, IF on a pickup truck.
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Old 08-28-2016, 12:03 AM   #238
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Link to post that explains tread differences between Michelin XPS Ribs, LTX M/S2 and LTX A/T2:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...ml#post1485434
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