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Old 12-29-2013, 06:17 PM   #1
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16" Michelin LT245/75R16, Clearance?

Folks,

I'm carefully trying to raise a twist on the seemingly popular 16" switch with a different size. I did see the Michelin in the lobby at JC this year, but now I'm getting real serious about 16's on my rig.

The AS is a 30' Classic Slide Out. I got these specs from the owners manual.

GVWR 10,300 Lbs
UBW 7940 Lbs
Hitch wt. 1050 Lbs

My discussion question is about the possible use of this tire, please carefully note the size 245 not 225.

Michelin LTX M/S LT245/75R16 Load Range E, max tire load 3042 Lbs. The 225 is 2680 Lbs.

The LT225/75R16 has a 29.4" overall diameter and the LT245/75R16 is 30.7" overall diameter.

Specs are from the Michelin Truck Tire Data Book.

Those of you that own the 30' Slide in particular or the 31' have the best chance to offer your .02$ about any possible clearance issues to the wheel well arches, that is a concern.

If the 245's can work that is a 1400+ pound increase in tire capacity.

My axles are just a few years old and are 5,000 Lb each.

I know the 16" question has come up a lot and I think for good reason, but can't say i've seen the 245 size question posed.

Pretty sure I'm rolling on 16's next year just gotta figure a few things out

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
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I made the change to LT tires this spring and can't be happier. My question is about the width of the 245's compared to the 225's. I look at my 225's and their clearance in width always makes me wonder if their's enough room for a clod of mud or whatever to clear the fender well. Are the 245's wider that the 225's?

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Old 12-29-2013, 06:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimW View Post
I made the change to LT tires this spring and can't be happier. My question is about the width of the 245's compared to the 225's. I look at my 225's and their clearance in width always makes me wonder if their's enough room for a clod of mud or whatever to clear the fender well. Are the 245's wider that the 225's?

Jim
Yes, by definition. That first number in the tire size (225 or 245 in this case) is the width in millimeters.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:57 PM   #4
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I think:

1) You may indeed have clearance issues with the extra 1/2"+ radius of the tire. (1.3" diameter)
2) If you load properly, and pay attention to the scales....wheel by wheel, you should be fine loaded up with the 225's. Most of you extra weight with the slide is an increase in tongue weight. I run at about 7500 pounds on my axles (together) and about 1000 pounds on the tongue....fully loaded.
3) I think you would overload an axle corner before you would run into an issue with the 2680 tire max.
4) realize that both the tires and the axle PROBABLY have at least a 10% margin of safety built into the spec.

I'd, for sure, run 80psi in the 225s.

That's my $.02
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:22 PM   #5
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I have the 225s and love them. I would NOT, however, go to 245s, and for a couple reasons.

1. I think you would have clearance issues. The big 16 incher thread has several pics of the 225s posted and I know I posted pics of my Classic with the new duds too. Clearance is good, but at the limit to where I would be uncomfortable going larger.

2. More rolling resistance. With the 245s, you're obviously putting more rubber on the road, and thus has to affect fuel mileage to some degree.

3. The popular Sendel wheel may not be wide enough to accommodate the wider tire without inducing poor wear characteristics, I.e., uneven wear. I'll admit I haven't researched the width range of the wheel though.

Bottom line is that if you need 245s, you're overweight. The 225s do nicely with 720 lbs of capacity beyond the capacity of the trailer.

Opinions will vary, but I do not think the extra capacity will be worth the extra headaches. Good luck with whatever you choose.

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Old 12-29-2013, 08:32 PM   #6
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kry226 View Post

3. I'll admit I haven't researched the width range of the wheel though.
The minimum rim width for subject tire is 6.5".

The LT245/75R16E M/S is not listed in the 2013 Michelin tire data book.

Michelin-Truck - Truck Tire Data Book New

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Old 12-30-2013, 05:56 AM   #8
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.........

2. More rolling resistance. With the 245s, you're obviously putting more rubber on the road, and thus has to affect fuel mileage to some degree.....
First, the difference in rolling resistance between tires is much, much greater than the difference in tire size.

Second, it turns out that if you use the same inflation pressure, larger tires get ever so slightly better RR.

I explore that here:

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Old 12-30-2013, 06:06 AM   #9
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Tirerack has a good table of information on the Michelin LTX M/S2 tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=LTX+M%2FS2
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:59 AM   #10
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Guys,

Sorry I wasn't able to get any visual or measurements on the clearance on my rig yesterday, I will this weekend. This is still exploration mode and I found this on Tirerack this AM, specs for 245. I don't have wheels picked out but pretty sure I found a 16X6.5" but again, need to pull it together.

Gary
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:18 AM   #11
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Where rim width is a very close match to tread width is an old recommendation. Where I'd start.

And my default tire would be the BRIDGESTONE Duravis r250

Duravis R250 Tire | Bridgestone Tires

I don't find anyone in commercial vehicles spec'ng MICHELIN. I like them fine and consider them one of two choices. I strongly recommend this alternative to you in your search. The truck I drive at work in the oilfield is equipped with the heavier versions and they are outstanding. (See also offerings for your CTD in the 500 and 700 series).

See also posts by JIMNLIN over on Woodalls (also owns a 3rd Gen CTD) as his decades-long experience in using one-ton trucks to make a living as well as his understanding of rules governing loads are quite good. The above tire was his choice which I found to be no surprise. (PM's are answered, too).

Lateral stiffness, and a tread that works well with that, are worth looking into.

I'd recommend what Tireman9 and others state as an obviious starting point: the use of the RMA or BRIDGESTONE guides on how to weigh RV's. Get the actual loads per tire after you've dialled in the WDH.

And a calibrated air pressure gauge (such as LONGACRE).

But I'd imagine this stuff you already know, right?
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post

But I'd imagine this stuff you already know, right?
If I ever claim to know it all, run like heck.

Just exploring ideas. Its winter and time to foruminate and do the researchology.

Maybe new years day I can get some some good visuals on the tire vs. body etc.

I've read all of you guys comments, appreciate them all. Still pondering but 16's are coming.

Gary
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:31 PM   #13
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Well, it continues.

I was looking at the Airstream website for 2013 specs. IIRC the 16" wheel combo has been frequently reffered to as the Eddie Bauer wheels, correct? The 27' FB EB has 16" LRE's listed in standard features and the same trailer has a 7,800 Lb GVWR.

Just throwing something out, the same 16" LRE on my 30' with a 10,300 Lb GVWR?

I know, I'll make a decision somehow after I chew on this a bit longer.

Remember, this is a clearance question first with side tracks.

Gary
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
Well, it continues.

I was looking at the Airstream website for 2013 specs. IIRC the 16" wheel combo has been frequently reffered to as the Eddie Bauer wheels, correct? The 27' FB EB has 16" LRE's listed in standard features and the same trailer has a 7,800 Lb GVWR.

Just throwing something out, the same 16" LRE on my 30' with a 10,300 Lb GVWR?

I know, I'll make a decision somehow after I chew on this a bit longer.

Remember, this is a clearance question first with side tracks.

Gary
Is your 30' a tri-axle or is that just the 34s? If a tri-axle, you're spreading the load over 6, not 4 tires. If a tandem axle, that 10,000# is being spread over 4 tires. If I recall correctly, the 15" GYMs (LRDs) are over 2500 each so 4 Ds would be right at the max. LRE Marathons I think are rated at 3400 and the Michelin light truck LRE I believe is 3100 but don't quote me on those numbers. Even at 3000/ea on a tandem axle you would have 2000# headroom.

Also, is that 10k# the loaded for camping weight on the scales w/WD applied?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:51 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by CapriRacer View Post
First, the difference in rolling resistance between tires is much, much greater than the difference in tire size.

Second, it turns out that if you use the same inflation pressure, larger tires get ever so slightly better RR.

I explore that here:

Barry's Tire Tech
I appreciate the link (is that you? did you write that?), and based on that link, bigger equaling less RR is not a universal truth. There are lots of factors to determine that, which is based on the individual tire. So, maybe, maybe not, especially considering the two sizes in question (aspect ratio is not changing) and the conditions under which they'll be used.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:37 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by kry226 View Post
I appreciate the link (is that you? did you write that?)........
Yes, I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kry226 View Post
..., and based on that link, bigger equaling less RR is not a universal truth. There are lots of factors to determine that, which is based on the individual tire. So, maybe, maybe not, especially considering the two sizes in question (aspect ratio is not changing) and the conditions under which they'll be used.
There is some variability in the data - and I think some of it stems from the fact that there are OE tires in the mix. Some of it may also stem from differences in production facilities. There were a lot of things that they didn't try to control, so in that respect, I am disappointed in the study.

On the other hand, the point of the study was to see if tire size had any affect - and it did, rendering the idea of a government regulation impossible with the data available.

I did see one followup study that indicated the idea of using RRC wasn't as simple as it might seem - that different tires react differently to differences in load,. Unfortunately, that study was only presented at a tire seminar and was never published in print form. I suspect that the study didn't show a large enough difference to worry about, but I wasn't fast enough to be sure from the graphs being shown. However, if there was a difference that rendered the RRC concept as totally invalid, that would have been a major upheaval in the idea that government regulation of RR was possible - and that didn't happen.

I'd like to have seen more follow up studies published, but that is what is available and we'll have to live with what we have.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:21 PM   #17
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Will it fit?

W/O mounting a tire and wheel combo but just looking at the tire relative to the wheel arches I'm initially optimistic. I focused on the rear of both rear tires due to the swing-arm arc of the axle. The curb side was slightly closer that the street side at 2". The flange that would be the 1st point of contact can easily be trimmed to gain 5/16-3/8" possibly.

This is still a researching idea, haven't made a decision other than 16's.

Now a follow up to a few comments:

Bottom line is that if you need 245s, you're overweight.

A. I don't agree. We do not carry any water in any tanks and not a lot of gear.

Is your 30' a tri-axle or is that just the 34s?

A. My 30' is built on 2 5,000 Lb rated axles, 4 tires.

Also, is that 10k# the loaded for camping weight on the scales w/WD applied?

A. I quoted 10,300 lbs as GVWR from the AS specs in the owners manual.

When I took the trailer home from dealer I stopped at a CAT Scale 4 years ago the ticket recorded 7700 lbs for the trailer. I did have the Equal-I-Zer hooked up but did not remove and reweigh, didn't know anything about the practice.

One size amendment, I need to add the current tire spec the MAXXIS ST225/75R15 has a 28.3" OD for about 2.2" increase in tire OD or 1.1" increase in the radius.

I'm headed to 16's for peace of mind based on ST failure history vs. 16" satisfaction I'm never going to claim I've got this all figured out, but I will make my decision.

Thanks for all of your comments and interest.

Regards,

Gary
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:14 PM   #18
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The 15" OEM GYM ST tires are rated 2,540 pounds each. The diameter is 28.3".

The Michelin LT225/75R16/E LTX M/S2 is rated 2,680 pounds @ 80 psi, or 10,720 pounds for the four tires. The diameter is 29.2". Michelin part number is P/N 05681. This is the tire supplied by Airstream as an option on the Eddie Bauer models and/or at the factory can be installed onto your trailer. It elevates the trailer just under 0.5" higher than the 15" GYM tire.

Airstream uses the SenDel T03-66655BM (black matte highlights) wheel (rated 3,500 pounds at 80psi) while I selected the T03-66655T which is the same model only no black paint.

There are other instances in the Airstream product line where the two axle ratings together are less than the GVW of the coach. because around 10% will be GVW will be tongue weight. Thus, I would expect close to a 1,000 pounds of the 10,300 pound GVW would be on the tow vehicle and the 16" captioned tire above would carry your load with no issues.

The above captioned 16" tire would not require any metal surgery to your trailer to install them and the tires would not be nearly touching each other. Those rims with zero offset have not cause any reported tire clearance issues either vertically or horizontally in the wheel wells.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:43 PM   #19
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This is the tire supplied by Airstream as an option on the Eddie Bauer models and/or at the factory can be installed onto your trailer. It elevates the trailer just under 0.5" higher than the 15" GYM tire.
Switz,

Not disagreeing with any of your info and the 225 is still in play. Here's something that is sitting kinda funny in my processor.

Previously posted by me:

I was looking at the Airstream website for 2013 specs. IIRC the 16" wheel combo has been frequently reffered to as the Eddie Bauer wheels, correct? The 27' FB EB has 16" LRE's listed in standard features and the same trailer has a 7,800 Lb GVWR.

The above EB trailer has a GVWR 2500 lbs less that my 30'.

Black Aces: The minimum rim width for subject tire is 6.5".

Hi-Spec wheel has 6.5" and 7" in 16" 6X5.5" 4.25" bore 0 Deg offset look at their 6.5's are in Series S5 or 09, 7's in Series 05 or 06.

Have any Forum members had the Sendel 225 combo installed at JC on a 10,000+ GVWR rated trailer? I know many have bought them independently, just curious if JC ever installed them on a 10,000+ GVRW trailer?

Back to work tomorrow. Drat it. Again thanks for your inputs.

Gary
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:48 PM   #20
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Hi Gary,

I'm thinking the extra rubber of a 245 tire would look boss... but, the unsprung weight would worry me.
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