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Old 01-02-2014, 08:05 PM   #29
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StevSueMac,
Ridgerunner3,

Discussion is what its all about, this is one of the best things about the gang here at Airforums. And it sorta seems to point out maybe a week point in what we're working with so many issues have been reported.

Hey, RR3 you coming to Alumalina 2014?

Gary
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:30 PM   #30
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Just for grins, the 2011 34' Classic (#25 of the last 25 to be built) with three axles I looked at last summer had a GVW of 11,500 pounds on the sticker. That was beyond the tow rating of my 3/4 ton Dodge no matter how I massaged the numbers in my mind.

Six of the 15" Michelins derated at 1,983 pounds payload each could support 11,932 pounds. Since around 1,000 pounds could be tongue weight, the six axles could be supporting 10,500 pounds which sounds like a reasonable load. However, with three axles there is a lot more side loading and scrubbing in the turns which could possibly be an issue.

Anyway, back to the two axle thread. I stood beside our new Classic 30 unit that has a 10,000 pound GVW with four GYM tires installed and looked inside at the bare frame with wires everywhere and the chaps were stuffing insulation (brown instead of pink) looking like fiberglass into all the nooks and crannies since it passed the water test.

So in 1.5 days, a bare frame came in the door up side down, had the tanks and axles installed along with signal and control wires and was flipped over to install the tires and wheels. While that was occurring, the external skin pieces were cut with all the openings and rivet holes and assembled to the ribs. The side panels were then attached to the end caps and placed over the precut plywood "floor" while the two pieces of the roof were riveted together and later installed. The shell with wood floor was then placed upon the frame and attached. At the next station from an overhead work space, the two A/C units were fitted and clear plastic was placed over the skylight openings, fridge opening etc.

Still about four more days of work to squirt the unit out the door. Seems the target is 50 units per week now.

There are two rows of trailers on each side of the factory floor. When they get to the end of the "beginning" side, they leave the building to go to awning installation and then return to the other "finishing" side for inside skin and cabinetry and wiring, plumbing, and propane lines etc.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCinSC2 View Post
StevSueMac,
Ridgerunner3,

Discussion is what its all about, this is one of the best things about the gang here at Airforums. And it sorta seems to point out maybe a week point in what we're working with so many issues have been reported.

Hey, RR3 you coming to Alumalina 2014?

Gary
Gary, we just moved to South Carolina. This is our retirement move to be close to our grand children. I'll call in the morning to see if there is any space left in the campground. Sounds like a great event. Winnsboro is only about an hour from our new home in SC.
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Old 01-02-2014, 08:45 PM   #32
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My muddled point in quoting Andrew T was only meant to say that Andrew T has a considerable amount of data about Michelin tires on Airstreams. I am not a customer of his and yet he was very helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what tires to put on my 25 footer and thought he may be helpful to the OP. I did not intend to recommend putting P235 75 15XL tires on a 30 footer.
No problem at all- I think I got your point. It just looked like the math didn't work with Andy's quote about using those tires on all trailers, including 30' Classics.

I think the OP is more interested in fit questions about the 16s. I was glad I could go with the 15s (no new wheels or any fit questions) because my fully loaded trailer weighs in at 5880 - plenty of headroom there. Let's say the 15s are "on the line" for the 30' Classic - that would draw the question about physical size of the tires (as the capacity is not a problem).

I think we're all good! :-)
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:03 AM   #33
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Still about four more days of work to squirt the unit out the door. Seems the target is 50 units per week now.
Wow, business must be good. At Alumapalooza in 2011, they were pushing out 26 per week.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:20 AM   #34
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kry226,

Installed at JC on a 30'. That was a direct answer to one of my questions, thanks. If you can get on a spec sheet for a 2007 30' S/O you'll see the 10,300 GVWR.

The only thing that caught my eye in researching was picking up just over 200 lb extra load cap / tire with the 245's. I think its time to put a spread sheet together I've got more notes than what I made to buy the whole trailer.

Gary
Ahh, forgot about the slide outs. But that's only a 300 lb increase, less than 100 lbs extra load per tire AT MAX TRAILER WEIGHT, which is again easily covered by the 225's 10,720 lb capacity.

I think very few of us actually get close to the GVWR unless we keep all three tanks full and a lot of gear in the trailer. Just guestimating, but in my AS travels, at 7,300 empty, I've probably only gotten as high as 9-9.5k, but will be weighing soon with probably our heaviest load yet. Gotta love the military PCS adventure. Headed back to Kansas in February.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:50 AM   #35
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Switz,

That's really neat that you can see your rig on the floor. We got a tour of JC last year and it was very interesting.

Looks like you're stuck in OH for a few days. No clue what your situation is but as a Buckeye native, got a suggestion or two.

If you can get to Dover OH just NE of you the Warther Museum is absolutely worth it to see his hand carved walnut, ivory and ebony steam engine collection. And also sorta NE is Kidron a town with a very large Amish community. Go to Lehman Hardware that'll take several hours by itself. Go downstairs in the (IIRC) Town & Country grocery store across the street and get a hot bowl of soup and a fried Trail Bologna sandwich. Then upstairs get a couple rings of Trail Bologna, some honest Swiss Cheese some Wheat Thins get out your pocket knife later and enjoy. Haven't been here for many years but the little town of Trail OH S of Kidron has a darn fine home cooking resturant that you'll have to dodge the road apples at the hitching rails for the buggies.

I gotta do some work to pay for the bills, later folks.

Gary
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:40 AM   #36
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The build rate information was updated yesterday to a target of 51 units per week. The worker activity on the shop floor would make a one armed wall paper hanger look idle. :roll eyes:

My unit bypassed a unit or two out the door of the "initial" build line to the paint shop where the "A" frame gets painted and the Classic "manual" awnings are installed on the three sides. I did not want the electric awning system. So I did not see it yesterday.

Monday, the paint will be dry, so it will be wheeled to the "finish" build line where the rest of the interior metal is put in along with everything else.

However, there is a major snow storm and sub-zero weather scheduled for entertainment this weekend here in Ohio. So, one I am not sure the factory will be operational Monday and two, even if it is operational, whether the local roads will clear enough to get there on 20 miles of interstate and secondary two lane highway.

I saw two Eddie Bauer models with the Michelin LT225/75R16/E tires installed.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:28 AM   #37
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Switz,

That wind where you are doesn't have much blocking it and I bet drifting is an issue too. Hope you have a warm place to wait it out. What city are you hunkered down in, Marysville?

Gary
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:51 PM   #38
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Maybe I can help out a little here.

We do have dozens of 30' Classics running P235/75R x 15" XL Michelin's. I have never weighed a 30 Classic that was anywhere near 8000 pounds on the axles. However the slide is considerably heavier and I would not suggest 15" tires on one. The 30 Slides I have weighed were 8600 and 8880 on the axles loaded for travel.

For a 30 Slide the 225/75R has plenty of capacity, I have not tried a 245 but it is going to be very close clearance wise and worn through wheel wells are not easy to repair.

If you want a little additional ground clearance you can do a Michelin 215/85R x 16" XPS Rib.

These won't carry the slide-out but if you want to fill out the wheel wells on any other model this works. They look better in person than the picture shows. This is a P235/70R x 17" XL with a load capacity of 2205 pounds on 17" American racing rims. I don't see any practical advantage over the 15", just looks good.

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Old 01-04-2014, 03:17 PM   #39
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Well, I can tell you that the last time I weighed my 30 Classic, loaded for camping with all gear and food, etc., it was at 7640# combined on the axles. That was hitched with WD applied. I had no fresh nor waste water on board....so the 15"ers are too close for comfort for me.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:28 PM   #40
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...snip...
They look better in person than the picture shows.
...snip...
Andrew T
I dunno, that pic looks pretty darn cool! I like those fender flares! :-)
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:46 AM   #41
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Hi Rich

I agree you are pretty close to the limit for 15's once you fill the fresh tank, thanks for the weight report, do you have any extra accessories, additional batteries etc?

The 30's I have weighed are usually in you weight range with the fresh tank full. We weight with the fresh tank full and the waste tanks empty as you rarely have a full fresh tank and full waste tanks at the same time.

I don't worry about loading the Michelins to their LT max which is 1985 pounds. We ran these tires on the hundreds of 1/2 ton suburbans for close to 20 years. Towards the end of that time when we started weighing units we discovered that these were 4,200 - 4,400 on the rear axle and the tires were also driving the unit which is the most demanding wheel position. One reason I lean towards Michelin, over the years I have seen a lot of abuse of their tires and they just seem to take it.

We sometimes do up 34 non slides with 16" rims and P235/60 x 16 performance tires, it looks cool, they ride nice and being a performance tires they have enough bite that the rear axle does not lock up so easily in aggressive stops. We have about 50 34's out there with this set up and have been running them since 1994.

A couple of years ago a customer that full times folded his right front tire over on curb in a gas station and severly bent the spindle. He was on his way home from Texas and had to get back to work, an axle was 2 weeks away. He wound up driving from Texas to us on the two remaining 235/60's. They were half way to the rims and would have been about 500 pounds over capacity. When we were doing the axle a few weeks later we took those two tires off and ran them on the balancer they still in balance with no shifted belts. Not that anyone should do this, it is just amazing how much abuse a good quality tire can withstand. The worst quality tire would not likely of made the trip yet it would have the same load capacity etc.

Andrew T
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Old 01-05-2014, 07:42 AM   #42
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Hi, Andrew,

I have no extra batts, single A/C, but I do have group 29 Interstates, bikes on the tongue....my wife insists on ceramic dishes (over the axles) some necessary tools, space heater, dehumidifier and so on. It all adds up, discretely and sneakily. That's why some of us harp on scale readings at least annually. The darn things gain weight worse than humans.

With all the discussion by tire experts here, and the lack of complete consensus about derating for non-STs, etc...for me the 15's just wasn't a comfortable choice. I usually don't tow with much water in the tanks at all, but I have been caught where I needed to bring water from home and a couple of times where the dump station was out of service and had to haul waste.

I am one who knows and believes in manufacturers specs (considering the margins built in) and really does not believe in exceeding them on a regular basis, although I have, out of necessity. At a minimum, exceeding the specs creates a long term component durability situation.
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