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switz · 01-02-2014, 09:15 AM

The factory will ship out my 10,000 GVW 2014 Classic model 30 in a few days with four Good Year Marathon tires on 15" wheels. If I had requested the 16" conversion, they would wheel the unit to the Airstream service center 500 feet away and swap out the 15" GYMs for the 16" Michelins (no credit issued for the tires and wheels with 500' of mileage on them). Since the 16" conversion is currently not on the factory option list except for the Eddie Bauer models, that option is done after assembly.

I am sitting in the Jackson Center lounge and heard someone call in to order the 16" tire conversion with five tires and wheels and the quoted price was $1,844.45 plus freight of $65 per tire if shipped separately or around $125 if they can be shipped on a pallet.

I was able to procure these items locally for less money even with the local sales tax and have the opportunity to sell the GYM tires and 15" wheels to recoup some of the costs.

I would be concerned with the wider tire and wheels hitting the fenders or bottoming out in the wheel wells. I wonder if you could acquire a "loaner wheel and tire" to check the fit before committing to five tires and wheels?

kry226 · 01-02-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Have any Forum members had the Sendel 225 combo installed at JC on a 10,000+ GVWR rated trailer? I know many have bought them independently, just curious if JC ever installed them on a 10,000+ GVRW trailer?

Gary, JC installed the combo on my 2010 Classic 30 (10k GVWR per the sticker) at Alumapalooza in 2011.

Also, I would not include any "support" from or weight distribution to the tow vehicle from tongue weight in my GVWR calculations. My personal preference is that 10k is 10k. Honestly, I haven't seen a two axle AS with a greater than 10k GVWR (not that they don't exist, just never seen one).

And as is, the 225s provide well over the 10k GVWR capacity. That's what makes this moot for me. The 245s are not providing anything that the 225s don't, or maybe I'm just not comprehending your requirements correctly.

I appreciate this discussion though.

Kyle

Ridgerunner3 · 01-02-2014, 03:17 PM

I think I have read that Can-Am has installed many of the Michelin P235 75 15XL tires on 30 foot Airstreams with no reported problems. You may want to send a message to Andrew T at Can-Am and ask him about his experience with Michelin tires on 30 footers.

SteveSueMac · 01-02-2014, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3

I think I have read that Can-Am has installed many of the Michelin P235 75 15XL tires on 30 foot Airstreams with no reported problems. You may want to send a message to Andrew T at Can-Am and ask him about his experience with Michelin tires on 30 footers.

Don't know that I've read that myself, but derated, those tires handle 1985#/ea. that gives you 7940 for a tandem axle or 11900 for a tri-axle. If a 30 footer loaded for camping with WD applied fits those ranges, it should be good to go. If that 30 footer is >8000# and only a tandem axle, I wouldn't do it. I do agree reaching out to Andy is a good idea :-)

Ridgerunner3 · 01-02-2014, 05:39 PM

Here is the post I was thinking of by Andrew T.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...-101582-2.html

Andrew T
4 Rivet Member

Commercial Member

Andrew T's Avatar

2008 34' Classic
1960 17' Pacer
London , Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 493
We have been using the Michelin P235/75R x 15" XL (extra load) tires on every size Airstream for many years now. Even a fully loaded 30' classic does not overload these tires.

That I know of (and I am sure I would hear about it) none of our customers has ever had a flat with one. They stay in balance, run cool and ride very smooth and have considerably more traction in panic stops.

The advantage over the E range 16" tire is a much smoother ride in the Airstream. We have actually switched the 16" E tires on some Eddie Bauers to a softer riding tire to smooth out the ride. Most tire stores are going to be nervous putting these on trailers because they are told that trailers should have ST tires but ST tires are inferior to passenger or LT tires.

I hope this helps.
__________________
Andrew Thomson
Can-Am RV Centre | #1 Airstream Dealer in Customer Satisfaction Worldwide | Your Full-Service RV Dealer

London, Ontario

**GCinSC2** · 01-02-2014, 06:33 PM

Switz,

Congrats on getting a new one, hopefully the weather in the Buckeye will cooperate for you getting out of there safely. The idea of a test fit has absolutely crossed my mind.

boondockdad,

Looks never really entered into the concept and frankly hadn't considered unsprung wt as an issue. But you are correct more unsprung wt has to be managed by the shock and suspension.

kry226,

Installed at JC on a 30'. That was a direct answer to one of my questions, thanks. If you can get on a spec sheet for a 2007 30' S/O you'll see the 10,300 GVWR.

The only thing that caught my eye in researching was picking up just over 200 lb extra load cap / tire with the 245's. I think its time to put a spread sheet together I've got more notes than what I made to buy the whole trailer.

Ridgerunner3,

Not doubting what CanAm has done, but that P235 makes no sense by the numbers for me. On day 1 coming home the CAT Scale said the trailer 7700 lbs and that was hooked up and completely empty. So putting 4 P235's at 1985 lb totaling 7,940 lb capacity tires under that 7700 lb scaled weight. No thanks. Just does not compute. A pair of those tires is not even equal to the 5,000 lb axle capacity.

A short personal recap.

I started as a Newbie and this is only our 5th season, so I'm not a newbie and a long long way from an expert. I started with tire issues on our 2nd outing, replaced (in camp, took all day, did all the wheel R&R myself) with GYM's those developed sidewall protruding blister bulges in a few weeks. 2Air went to MAXXIS, I thought can't be worse than what has already happened, bought MAXXIS LRE's and actually so far so good.

But over the last 3 1/2+ years on Airforums (for me anyway) it has been picture after picture of torn up wheel wells, tire treads blown off, near catastrophe after catastrophe. Reports of trips to JC to get panel replacements, many trail blazers taking bold steps to take a proactive step to prevent potential incredible failures while we're trying so hard to have a good time and now the EB with 16's. With my admittedly limited mileage towing the trailer I've agreed with and suggested TPMS and temp guns as a way to stack the deck in our favor and concentrate on enjoying our trips and our Country.

I'm currently running LRE's and a 10K Equal-I-Zer and AFAIK haven't seen one broken rivet, cabinets stay shut, tows darn good too.

This has been and most likely will continue for me as a decision making process. Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

Its gonna be a Michelin season for me, just put 4 on the Dodge, my Beetle needs 4 and the trailer is next.

Gary

SteveSueMac · 01-02-2014, 06:33 PM

Ok. The Classic 30' has a "unit base weight" of 7365 and a GVWR of 10000. At 7940 capacity for the 4 Michelin p-rated tires 4(2183/1.1) you'd have about 600# capacity to carry "stuff". The hitch weight is listed at 773 but assume closer to 1000 in real life and assume a third of that is distributed to the axles via WD. That would mean you have about 300# carrying capacity left. You can chew that up with a full black or gray tank or 3/4 FW tank - that doesn't count dishes, clothes, food, etc.

I'm no tire expert and I certainly don't have Andy's credentials - but if I understand the basic math here, I'd say the 15" Michelin p-tires are just at (and probably over) the threshold for a 30' Classic.

That's not said to stir up controversy at all - just my understanding of the math - which could admittedly be flawed so please correct me if I'm missing something.

Ridgerunner3 · 01-02-2014, 06:55 PM

My muddled point in quoting Andrew T was only meant to say that Andrew T has a considerable amount of data about Michelin tires on Airstreams. I am not a customer of his and yet he was very helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what tires to put on my 25 footer and thought he may be helpful to the OP. I did not intend to recommend putting P235 75 15XL tires on a 30 footer.

**GCinSC2** · 01-02-2014, 07:05 PM

StevSueMac,
Ridgerunner3,

Discussion is what its all about, this is one of the best things about the gang here at Airforums. And it sorta seems to point out maybe a week point in what we're working with so many issues have been reported.

Hey, RR3 you coming to Alumalina 2014?

Gary

switz · 01-02-2014, 07:30 PM

Just for grins, the 2011 34' Classic (#25 of the last 25 to be built) with three axles I looked at last summer had a GVW of 11,500 pounds on the sticker. That was beyond the tow rating of my 3/4 ton Dodge no matter how I massaged the numbers in my mind.

Six of the 15" Michelins derated at 1,983 pounds payload each could support 11,932 pounds. Since around 1,000 pounds could be tongue weight, the six axles could be supporting 10,500 pounds which sounds like a reasonable load. However, with three axles there is a lot more side loading and scrubbing in the turns which could possibly be an issue.

Anyway, back to the two axle thread. I stood beside our new Classic 30 unit that has a 10,000 pound GVW with four GYM tires installed and looked inside at the bare frame with wires everywhere and the chaps were stuffing insulation (brown instead of pink) looking like fiberglass into all the nooks and crannies since it passed the water test.

So in 1.5 days, a bare frame came in the door up side down, had the tanks and axles installed along with signal and control wires and was flipped over to install the tires and wheels. While that was occurring, the external skin pieces were cut with all the openings and rivet holes and assembled to the ribs. The side panels were then attached to the end caps and placed over the precut plywood "floor" while the two pieces of the roof were riveted together and later installed. The shell with wood floor was then placed upon the frame and attached. At the next station from an overhead work space, the two A/C units were fitted and clear plastic was placed over the skylight openings, fridge opening etc.

Still about four more days of work to squirt the unit out the door. Seems the target is 50 units per week now.

There are two rows of trailers on each side of the factory floor. When they get to the end of the "beginning" side, they leave the building to go to awning installation and then return to the other "finishing" side for inside skin and cabinetry and wiring, plumbing, and propane lines etc.

Ridgerunner3 · 01-02-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

StevSueMac,
Ridgerunner3,

Discussion is what its all about, this is one of the best things about the gang here at Airforums. And it sorta seems to point out maybe a week point in what we're working with so many issues have been reported.

Hey, RR3 you coming to Alumalina 2014?

Gary

Gary, we just moved to South Carolina. This is our retirement move to be close to our grand children. I'll call in the morning to see if there is any space left in the campground. Sounds like a great event. Winnsboro is only about an hour from our new home in SC.

SteveSueMac · 01-02-2014, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ridgerunner3

My muddled point in quoting Andrew T was only meant to say that Andrew T has a considerable amount of data about Michelin tires on Airstreams. I am not a customer of his and yet he was very helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what tires to put on my 25 footer and thought he may be helpful to the OP. I did not intend to recommend putting P235 75 15XL tires on a 30 footer.

No problem at all- I think I got your point. It just looked like the math didn't work with Andy's quote about using those tires on all trailers, including 30' Classics.

I think the OP is more interested in fit questions about the 16s. I was glad I could go with the 15s (no new wheels or any fit questions) because my fully loaded trailer weighs in at 5880 - plenty of headroom there. Let's say the 15s are "on the line" for the 30' Classic - that would draw the question about physical size of the tires (as the capacity is not a problem).

I think we're all good! :-)

kry226 · 01-03-2014, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by switz

Still about four more days of work to squirt the unit out the door. Seems the target is 50 units per week now.

Wow, business must be good. At Alumapalooza in 2011, they were pushing out 26 per week.

kry226 · 01-03-2014, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

kry226,

Installed at JC on a 30'. That was a direct answer to one of my questions, thanks. If you can get on a spec sheet for a 2007 30' S/O you'll see the 10,300 GVWR.

The only thing that caught my eye in researching was picking up just over 200 lb extra load cap / tire with the 245's. I think its time to put a spread sheet together I've got more notes than what I made to buy the whole trailer.

Gary

Ahh, forgot about the slide outs. But that's only a 300 lb increase, less than 100 lbs extra load per tire AT MAX TRAILER WEIGHT, which is again easily covered by the 225's 10,720 lb capacity.

I think very few of us actually get close to the GVWR unless we keep all three tanks full and a lot of gear in the trailer. Just guestimating, but in my AS travels, at 7,300 empty, I've probably only gotten as high as 9-9.5k, but will be weighing soon with probably our heaviest load yet. Gotta love the military PCS adventure. Headed back to Kansas in February.

**GCinSC2** · 01-03-2014, 05:50 AM

Switz,

That's really neat that you can see your rig on the floor. We got a tour of JC last year and it was very interesting.

Looks like you're stuck in OH for a few days. No clue what your situation is but as a Buckeye native, got a suggestion or two.

If you can get to Dover OH just NE of you the Warther Museum is absolutely worth it to see his hand carved walnut, ivory and ebony steam engine collection. And also sorta NE is Kidron a town with a very large Amish community. Go to Lehman Hardware that'll take several hours by itself. Go downstairs in the (IIRC) Town & Country grocery store across the street and get a hot bowl of soup and a fried Trail Bologna sandwich. Then upstairs get a couple rings of Trail Bologna, some honest Swiss Cheese some Wheat Thins get out your pocket knife later and enjoy. Haven't been here for many years but the little town of Trail OH S of Kidron has a darn fine home cooking resturant that you'll have to dodge the road apples at the hitching rails for the buggies.

I gotta do some work to pay for the bills, later folks.

Gary

switz · 01-04-2014, 06:40 AM

The build rate information was updated yesterday to a target of 51 units per week. The worker activity on the shop floor would make a one armed wall paper hanger look idle. :roll eyes:

My unit bypassed a unit or two out the door of the "initial" build line to the paint shop where the "A" frame gets painted and the Classic "manual" awnings are installed on the three sides. I did not want the electric awning system. So I did not see it yesterday.

Monday, the paint will be dry, so it will be wheeled to the "finish" build line where the rest of the interior metal is put in along with everything else.

However, there is a major snow storm and sub-zero weather scheduled for entertainment this weekend here in Ohio. So, one I am not sure the factory will be operational Monday and two, even if it is operational, whether the local roads will clear enough to get there on 20 miles of interstate and secondary two lane highway.

I saw two Eddie Bauer models with the Michelin LT225/75R16/E tires installed.

**GCinSC2** · 01-04-2014, 07:28 AM

Switz,

That wind where you are doesn't have much blocking it and I bet drifting is an issue too. Hope you have a warm place to wait it out. What city are you hunkered down in, Marysville?

Gary

Andrew T · 01-04-2014, 01:51 PM

Maybe I can help out a little here.

We do have dozens of 30' Classics running P235/75R x 15" XL Michelin's. I have never weighed a 30 Classic that was anywhere near 8000 pounds on the axles. However the slide is considerably heavier and I would not suggest 15" tires on one. The 30 Slides I have weighed were 8600 and 8880 on the axles loaded for travel.

For a 30 Slide the 225/75R has plenty of capacity, I have not tried a 245 but it is going to be very close clearance wise and worn through wheel wells are not easy to repair.

If you want a little additional ground clearance you can do a Michelin 215/85R x 16" XPS Rib.

These won't carry the slide-out but if you want to fill out the wheel wells on any other model this works. They look better in person than the picture shows. This is a P235/70R x 17" XL with a load capacity of 2205 pounds on 17" American racing rims. I don't see any practical advantage over the 15", just looks good.

Andrew T

dznf0g · 01-04-2014, 02:17 PM

Well, I can tell you that the last time I weighed my 30 Classic, loaded for camping with all gear and food, etc., it was at 7640# combined on the axles. That was hitched with WD applied. I had no fresh nor waste water on board....so the 15"ers are too close for comfort for me.