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Old 09-22-2016, 07:18 PM   #71
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I have a 2016 27' FC I put the P235/75R15 Michelin XL on mine and works well.
I also put tire monitors on to for that fuzzy feeling going down the road and watching my air pressure. I'm still below the gross even after derating the tire for trailer use. I feel the trailer actually tows a bit better with the Michelins on it to. Michelins have the lowest rolling resistance in the market. Possibly better fuel economy? I've always relied on Michelins after being in the tire business for 40 yrs.

Regards Mike Comeaux
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:10 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by FCStreamer View Post

Goodyears have failures. Michelins have failures. All tires have the potential to fail. So regardless of which tire I pick, I will monitor tire pressure, not exceed max weight ratings, and avoid driving over things that could make them go boom. But I appreciate you having a different opinion and wanting to use light truck tires on a trailer. It's your trailer, so you are free to use whichever tire you are most comfortable with.
Fact is LT tires have normal failures and ST tires have abnormal failures.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:36 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Fact is LT tires have normal failures and ST tires have abnormal failures.
As someone whose job it used to be to follow tire failure rates, I am noticing a lack of recent reports.

Am I wrong? Have there been continued reports that I missed? Has the rate gone down?

Should I start a new thread where I ask about recent failures? (As in this year - 2016)
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:18 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Thanks. Do you know what the maximum recommended load is for this LT tire? On one source I see 2208 lbs.:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=35

. . . which should be de-rated 10% for use on a trailer, or about 1987 pounds per tire, according to many threads here on the forum.

Thanks,

Peter
And will that arbitrary derating actually reduce the load capacity of that tire ?
The same exact tire is put out by Michelin in the Defender line and they dropped the "P". This silly argument has been beaten to death and yet there it is again.
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Old 09-23-2016, 10:20 AM   #75
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Michelin Defender LTX M/S

Just purchased Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235-75R-15 109T with 70K mileage warranty. Dealer included a Michelin $70 mail in rebate so total cost per tire is $122.50/ea installed. Great price including installation. Drove home in rain 55 miles yesterday, and felt pretty solid. Will see how they preform over coming trip to TX and beyond! LoL
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:49 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
And will that arbitrary derating actually reduce the load capacity of that tire ?

The same exact tire is put out by Michelin in the Defender line and they dropped the "P". This silly argument has been beaten to death and yet there it is again.

Frank - I'm going to try a different approach and if that doesn't work, I'm done trying. And for the record, whether you honestly can't grasp this concept, or being stubborn for sport or really just can't help yourself, I'm really not replying here for you. I'm replying here to try to counterbalance your misinformation for the benefit of others who may be confused by it.

The code about derating is not arbitrary. You can choose to follow it or not as you please, but it is not arbitrary. Several tire engineers have explained several times how that derating requirement came to be. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's arbitrary. People who've studied this as their career/profession (which you've admitted you have not done) know better than you and I do how forces work on a trailer which is different than in a passenger car for which these tires were designed. That's why you SHOULD derate their capacity. Again - choose to or not as you wish, but at least do so from an informed perspective - which to this point you have not demonstrated.

As for "dropping the 'P'" - again, you've had this explained to you by tire engineers (which I am not) and by Michelin itself in response to my email query on this issue. The tire you are taking about - in the 15" size - whether LTX/M/S2 or Defender is unequivocally a P rated tire. It is not in any way shape or form an LT rated tire. The only silly thing about this argument is your refusal to acknowledge the facts here.

Your argument would be much easier to swallow if you could at least acknowledge you understand what you're talking about and have chosen to intentionally ignore the derating requirement on these P tires on your trailer for X, Y, Z reason.

I really do wish you and everyone happy, safe travels.
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Old 09-23-2016, 05:12 PM   #77
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Thanks for the feedback on the P/LT etc. issues raised over the last few days. Sorry not to make this clear, but what I was really getting at is that the Michelin LTX tire in question [See franklyfranks' Post #65] rated at 2208 lbs. capacity, was way below the 2500 lbs per tire we need for our single-axle FC20, even without considering a safety margin or any de-rating.

There aren't many 15" tires available for our needs IMO, but this Nokian 15" Rotiiva AT All-Season tire would fit the bill:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...15-156339.html

with a load capacity of 2760 lbs each.

Have a good weekend.

Peter



Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Within the new Defender Line you will find the
LTX/R75/15 / 108 / T tire. Michelin has it for sale at $ 145.00 per. It is a 70,000 mile tire.
FYI search results for Nokian 15" mentions here on the forum:

https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=011403...%22&gsc.page=1
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:41 AM   #78
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There's also a Pirelli Scorpion LT 15" but they're hard to find and have lower capacity than the Nokians you mentioned. Good luck!
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Old 09-24-2016, 07:36 AM   #79
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Thanks SSM. I have had Pirelli M&S on other vehicles and they were very good.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:26 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SteveSueMac View Post
Frank - I'm going to try a different approach and if that doesn't work, I'm done trying. And for the record, whether you honestly can't grasp this concept, or being stubborn for sport or really just can't help yourself, I'm really not replying here for you. I'm replying here to try to counterbalance your misinformation for the benefit of others who may be confused by it.

The code about derating is not arbitrary. You can choose to follow it or not as you please, but it is not arbitrary. Several tire engineers have explained several times how that derating requirement came to be. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's arbitrary. People who've studied this as their career/profession (which you've admitted you have not done) know better than you and I do how forces work on a trailer which is different than in a passenger car for which these tires were designed. That's why you SHOULD derate their capacity. Again - choose to or not as you wish, but at least do so from an informed perspective - which to this point you have not demonstrated.

As for "dropping the 'P'" - again, you've had this explained to you by tire engineers (which I am not) and by Michelin itself in response to my email query on this issue. The tire you are taking about - in the 15" size - whether LTX/M/S2 or Defender is unequivocally a P rated tire. It is not in any way shape or form an LT rated tire. The only silly thing about this argument is your refusal to acknowledge the facts here.

Your argument would be much easier to swallow if you could at least acknowledge you understand what you're talking about and have chosen to intentionally ignore the derating requirement on these P tires on your trailer for X, Y, Z reason.

I really do wish you and everyone happy, safe travels.
My practical experience with ST tires and non ST tires prove all of them wrong. My experience comes from managing tires in my own business for 25 semi tractors and trailers for over 30 years.
As to engineers and government regulations just open your eyes and look around. Ethanol is mandated and yet it is harmful to engines. The industry went into all kinds gyrations to cope with that " Well Engineered" fiasco.
The same goes for all the needles and counterproductive antipollution gizmos mandated on trucks.
Engineers and government mandates gave us the 1.6 toilet flush. So now instead of getting a one time useful 2 gal flush we flush twice and use 3.2 gallons.
If Michelin stamps 2,100 lbs load capacity on a tire at 50 psi you can safely load that tire to that capacity. Next time you are around a heavy construction site just observe the abuse these LT tires on service trucks are subjected to. Overloaded, driving over curbs, busted up concrete etc.etc. I never have subjected my AS tires to overloading and to such abuse. So yes I choose to ignore those engineers and government regulations because my everyday life experience proves them wrong.
I could write a book about engineering snaffoos I had to deal with and correct in the Infrastructure business I was engaged in over the years.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:36 AM   #81
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We purchased a set of Michelin Defender LTX M/S 235-75R-15 109T tires for our 2017 25FB International yesterday.

The guys at America's Tire were very thorough. They replaced the rubber stems with metal stems for my TPMS sensors. I asked them to replace all of the factory nuts with decorative skins for solid plated steel nuts for more dependable future removal.

This is my second set of Michelin LTX M/S 235-75R-15 tires on an Airstream. The last were LTX M/S2 235-75R-15 108Ts on my 2014 23D.

The ride is better, stopping is more effective and I can go 65mph with confidence.

I replaced the oem Firestone Transforce ATs on my 2016 RAM 2500 with Michelin Defender LTs after just 10K miles.....worn to the wear indicators. I've run Michelins on our RVs and trailers for the past 15 years. Never a failure.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:54 AM   #82
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I replaced the oem Firestone Transforce ATs on my 2016 RAM 2500 with Michelin Defender LTs after just 10K miles.....worn to the wear indicators. I've run Michelins on our RVs and trailers for the past 15 years. Never a failure.
I'm surprised by the wear on the Transforce AT tires. I put a set on my truck (2009 Dodge CTD) last year which have about 8k miles on them presently and they still look brand new. I drive on pavement, gravel and off road.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:10 PM   #83
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I'm surprised by the wear on the Transforce AT tires. I put a set on my truck (2009 Dodge CTD) last year which have about 8k miles on them presently and they still look brand new. I drive on pavement, gravel and off road.
The rears wore badly. I'm much happier with the Michelins.
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Old 09-27-2016, 12:58 PM   #84
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"If Michelin stamps 2,100 lbs load capacity on a tire at 50 psi you can safely load that tire to that capacity.

Safely, I would agree.

But at least in Tennessee, not legally. For P tires on a trailer the tire rating minus the 10% de-rating must exceed the tagged gross axle weight to be legal.

I think the new Defenders are a R tire, in which the derating requirement for trailers still applies.
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