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Old 02-01-2004, 02:33 PM   #21
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Centramatic

It seems to me that the Centramatic (not an endorsement) would balance the complete assembly. Really looking forward to hearing user reports.
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:35 PM   #22
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lathe?

ed/debbie/andy and now eric,

about a year ago on a similar thread i wondered if one could have drums/hubs balanced by a machinist on a lathe. by drilling or welding on tabs. not unlike my harley flywheels.

(i have access to such services but not the snap on rig)

then one could have the wheel assemblys balanced in a conventional manner.

waddya guys think?

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Old 02-01-2004, 02:45 PM   #23
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Re: lathe?

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Originally posted by john hd
ed/debbie/andy and now eric,

waddya guys think?

john
John,
This is all news to me. I figured high-speed wheel balance was sufficient. I'm just along for the ride looking for more info before I reach any conclusion and action.
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:57 PM   #24
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Lathe?

John HD:
I took my new drums to a machine shop I do lots of business with. He gave up. You need to go to a balance shop like a driveshaft/clutch/flywheel specialist.
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:58 PM   #25
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balance

John, before you put on the balancers is there a way too measure the impact before/after? Place something in the trailer to see the impact without (marbles in jello..etc) and then do the same after you've installed the Centramatics. I'm interested in whether they work. If I new of someone around Dallas Ft Worth that balanced the entire assembly then I'd have it done. Just don't know where to go. The Centramatics may be a next best option.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:02 PM   #26
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1) I really think Andy is quite correct in what he says.

2) Unfortunately, Airstream has not balanced their hub/tire assemblies for a great many years. They say don't worry about it.

3) The problem is directly proportional to length - the longer the coach, the more a given vibration translates into longer and longer oscillations at the back.

4) There are very few places that have the equipment to do this properly. Inland RV may well be the only Airstream dealer who still has the balancing equipment. There are said to be truck alignment shops here and there that can do it, but try and find one!

5) Since the demise of the rear bath and the reinforced frames, it does not seem to be near the problem it once was. Is this because these units are not yet 30 years old? Possibly. We'll see I suppose.

6) I have an '85 25' center bath coach, have never found anyone who can do the proper hub/wheel/tire balacing, and don't plan to lose any sleep over it.

Mark
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:24 PM   #27
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Re: balance

Quote:
Originally posted by Tin Hut
John, before you put on the balancers is there a way too measure the impact before/after? Place something in the trailer to see the impact without (marbles in jello..etc) and then do the same after you've installed the Centramatics.
I can't think of a test without having something like a recording accellerometer. Folks with motorhomes report that things stop buzzing when the balancers are put on; I guess that if things in the trailer stop unscrewing themselves, I'll consider the money well spent.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:29 PM   #28
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There are units coming out with disc brakes does that mean the balancing issue goes away because there is no drum?
The most significant issue with the chassis was when the gray tank was added to the trailer , this added extra weight to rear of the trailer that caused more flexing to the frame. This flexing led to chassis fatigue and rear end seperation.
Since then more attention has been given to floor plans and tank locations.
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:50 PM   #29
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Smile Thanks, Andy!

Thank you Andy for that nice, simple, concise reply! Now I know.

Now, does anybody out there know if Ace Fogdale, my local dealer, have the equipment to do the job correctly? They do have a frame straightening machine. Yea, I know that has nothing to do with the subject, just thought if they had that machine, they might, might, be able to do the balancing.... elsewise, it's off to a Freightliner or International dealer, or a Stoughten or Great Dane dealer....

Thanks for the clarification, all!

Elizabeth in Iowa
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:30 PM   #30
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john irwin,

can you post some pictures of your balancers?

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Old 02-01-2004, 07:58 PM   #31
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Great thread, who knew? So when I rotate my AS tires does that mean I need to rebalance the hubs also or are the wheels in balance enought to not make a differance. Seems like a really important maintenance item. How would that work.
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Old 02-01-2004, 09:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tinsel Loaf
Great thread, who knew? So when I rotate my AS tires does that mean I need to rebalance the hubs also or are the wheels in balance enought to not make a differance. Seems like a really important maintenance item. How would that work.
Rotating tires is one reason why I decided to go with the Centramatic balancers rather than looking for a shop that could balance the whole smash.

john hd, I'll try to take some photos tomorrow.
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Old 02-02-2004, 12:06 AM   #33
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Exclamation Earthquake Express

Here is one of a number of threads on these forums dealing with balancing hubs etc.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...=hub+balancing


This is one of the smartest prventive measures that any of us can do. If we just shop and ask around to find a shop that will do it.
I own a 31'er but I'd do this if I had a 17' as well. And I don't think this should just be done to the Vintage crowd, but all of em then to now!

I am 125% convinced that Inland Andy is right on this subject.

When I brought my Airstream halfway across country awhile back, I was able to follow it in another truck for about 100 miles. I was surprised and disappointed to see all the dancing that the tires seemed to be doing. However I knew that my eyes might well decieve me, so I got into the trailer and rode for approx 15 miles. (On interstate good+ pavement).

The experience was a horror story. The whole thing was flexing and breathing like a mortally wounded elephant. The ceiling panels were moving the cross walls were moving, the appliances were shaking, my head was spinning and my heart was broken.
I expected the air conditioner to come crashing down any minute.The only thing that seemed at all stable were the side walls and the floor. Had there been a quart of milk onboard it would have surely been butter maybey cheese. I'd say on the richter scale it amounted to at least a 7.5.

Everyone if at all possible should ride in their trailer for at least a 5-10 mile pull.

BTW my axles are at positive 5-10 degree. (Not good) I did not feel any bottom-out during my ride, but the road was good.

Had I been able to take that ride prior to purchase I would have probably passed. Now I will attempt to make the most of my circumstance.
Story developing I hope to keep the forum posted as things evolve.

My trailer is now in drydock and I will not be able to ride in it again for awhile. I am anxious to compare a before and after balancing ride. But now I am still seeking a balancer like Andy uses.
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:42 AM   #34
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Drum modifications

Welcome to the world of "law suits."

Modifying a hub and drum, by any method, creates a huge liability for that shop.

Turning a drum is one thing. Thats an industry standard.

But machining it to be in balance is quite another, or spot welding counter weights on them.

Ask "ANY" lawyer.

This subject comes up periodically, it seems. Airstream would use balanced hub and drums, "if they were made." Unfortunately, no one makes them.

Does Airstream balance the running gear? No. Why? They tried that 31 years ago. It didn't work then and probably would not work now.

Balancing has always been an owner responsibilty, and probably always will.

Andy
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Old 02-02-2004, 10:51 AM   #35
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"We extended the frame in the rear by two feet, and added a 25 gal fuel tank and a generac 55. ...We added weight in the form of lead bars in the front, in the toolbox on the A frame..."

Elizabeth - this is a poor lashup. Gas weighs 6 lb/gal, so 25 gal is 150 lbs, plus the generator at 215 lbs - 365 lbs total. You have loaded both ends of the trailer like the two ends of a see-saw, beyond it's intended capacity. Something will break, like the frame right over the axles. Not to mention the mass concentrated at the two ends, which changes teh the trailer's towing dynamics. I would remove the generator, frame extension, and lead weights immediately!

I have a 50 lb Honda EU2000 generator that we place in a large Rubbermaid bin and carry in the back of the tow vehicle or inside the door of the trailer.
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Old 02-02-2004, 11:53 AM   #36
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Elizabeth.

With your proposed setup, you will have an Airstream shaped like the Arch in St. Louis.

Your trailer frame, "with the beef up kit" will never hold up.

Also your axels will not take that extra weight, if you load your trailer as most owners do.

Not what you want to hear, but facts are facts.

Andy
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:20 PM   #37
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There needs to be a balancing between truth and fiction. In the seventies some of the drums were off (Kelsey Hayes drums sometimes by as much as a pound) the need for balancing was real.
In this day and age of sophisticated CNC machines, tolerances are much tighter than they were in the earlier seventies.
Does Dexter axle or Andy's supplier of Henschen axles indicate the need for spin balancing? Have they shared with Andy that the hubs are not properly balanced? How many RV companies recommend spin balancing tires ,wheels,and drums as a unit?How many facilities offer this service if it is such a large concern?
Minimizing vibration is always a good thing, but having a list of items such as water leaks ,rear end seperation,frame fatigue all attributed to running gear balancing ,especially on current RV's seems some what odd.
I just feel the need for balance when addressing this topic;is it still a large issue on present day running gears. I don't think so!
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Old 02-02-2004, 06:54 PM   #38
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Oh boy, I went around to find out if tire and wheel shops could balance hubs along with my AS wheels. Hub's? Whaaaaaaat? "Why"? they asked, so I explained it to three different shops. "Hey I know I look stupid, but I'm not as stupid as I look" "No" one shop owner told me, "Your stupid"! Yikes, that was close to home. Anyway, I did find one Old geezer (me geezer too) that has been in business since rubber was invented, and he not only had the equipment to do it, he agreed with me, or giving credit where credit is due, you Andy. Now, I asked, (since it's such a pain in several parts of my anatomy to do this every time I rotate the tires, not to mention the cost) couldn't I remove the balanced hub with wheel attached and rotate them together. "If all the axle shafts are the same, I don't' see why not" he replied. This is great news, fellow Airstreamers! Yes? It sounds to good to be true! I have a sinking feeling that there is some Airstream quark in the axle spindles. like the metal thickness is 0.0000001 to the 25th power difference on each wheel and it won't work. Okay Andy of Inland RV, here is the question. CAN BALANCED HUBS AND WHEELS BE ROTATED TOGETHER ON AIRSTREAMS?
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:27 PM   #39
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lynn,
I found it hard to believe, too. How dare they put out drum/ hub assemblies that are unbalanced, or even excentric wheels!
Well, they do. And they ( they being the manufacturers) simply don't care what happens next. So they say that balancing is not needed.
If you also don't care, then motor on. But if you do care about your Airstream, get your rotating parts balanced. Because it really is true what Andy says. I know first hand. No fiction, only proven facts.
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Old 02-02-2004, 08:02 PM   #40
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