New Dexter Axle Problem, Any Hope?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

so are you trying to tell me that a shock is giving too much dampening. I will take all the shock absorption I can get.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Photo showing no shock bracket installed prior to installing the shaft and rubber rods within the axle tube.

Andy

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Torsion axles, when hitting a bump, tend to "chatter", sort of like a bouncing ball, because of the rubber rods.

Rubber bounces, we all know that.

The shocks, curtail {limit} that bouncing, since they are motion restricters.

Dexter can say whatever they wish, but they cannot over rule physics, or the behavior of rubber.

Andy

Andy,

It sounds to me that you are taking a position 180 degrees out from your position on weight distribution. In weight distribution, you recommend lighter springer bars, which allow a more springy less shocking ride.

In this case you are recommending a device that is going to cause more jolt and shock from the trailer suspension.

A shock absorber is a very inappropriately named device. It is in fact a spring dampener. It introduces resistance to the springs motion.

The thing that actually absorbs shock in a suspension system is the spring itself. When you introduce a "shock absorber", it impedes the action of the spring and every new sudden vertical movement is going to be initially transfered with more force to the vehicle due to the resistance of the "shock absorber".

Call it what you may, A "shock absorber" increases the roughness of ride and decreases the actual vertical travel of the vehicle ( its intended purpose)

To put it simply a shock absorber decreases the vertical travel of a suspension system, but allows causes greater acceleration forces (shock) to be passed through the system.


Regards,

Ken

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Andy,

It sounds to me that you are taking a position 180 degrees out from your position on weight distribution. In weight distribution, you recommend lighter springer bars, which allow a more springy less shocking ride.

In this case you are recommending a device that is going to cause more jolt and shock from the trailer suspension.

A shock absorber is a very inappropriately named device. It is in fact a spring dampener. It introduces resistance to the springs motion.

The thing that actually absorbs shock in a suspension system is the spring itself. When you introduce a "shock absorber", it impedes the action of the spring and every new sudden vertical movement is going to be initially transfered with more force to to the vehicle due to the resistance of the "shock absorber".

Call it what you may, A "shock absorber" increases the roughness of ride and decrease the actual vertical travel of the vehicle ( its intended purpose)

To put it simply a shock absorber decreases the vertical travel of a suspension system, but allows causes greater acceleration forces (shock) to be passed through the system.


Regards,

Ken

Another negative for the auto industry, and I guess Airstream too.

Shocks causing harm???

I don't think so.

Andy

[Diesel1]

I purchased axles from Andy, they were a reasonable fit. Meaning my trailer is 43 years old so I did not anticipate a direct bolt up. My axles came supplyed with shock brackets for me to weld on. The brackets are sitting in the backyard where I am performing a rust test on them. I am firmly in the camp that feels the shocks are a waste of time and money. I have only towed my trailer about 1500 miles since the axle swap so time will tell. Adios, John

[biggoofball]

I'm with Andy and Frank. I'll take all the dampening I can get. But I'm a bit old school. Cheers to those that are going with out and are happy.

Just to be clear, If you have a brand new trailer with no shocks, I'm not telling you to put them on. I'm just a fan of returning something to the way the engineer designed it to be. He probably designed it that way for a reason.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Another negative for the auto industry, and I guess Airstream too.

Shocks causing harm???

I don't think so.

Andy

I know you don't THINK so. That is my point.

I didn't say they cause harm, I simply said they increase the shock to the vehicle. You are the one who says shock causes harm.

You often state that something is physics so it can't be argued with. This is physics. If you are familiar with physics, sit down, and do a little math before you just fire off another reply.

My point is that you recommend users ignore the advice given by hitch manufacturers, because it will increase shock to the trailer, yet here you are advocating following advice from only certain manufacturers (follow Airstream, ignore Dexter), that will in fact cause increased jarring to the trailer.

I am not saying that shocks are bad, I am saying that you appear to pick and chose what manufacturer's instructions to follow, based on whether or not it supports your already held beliefs.

Regards,


Ken

[silverleeper]

This thread was started to help a forums member... Lets review.

Originally Posted by Dumpster

I thought I should start a new thread about a problem I encountered swapping out my axles this weekend, in the hopes that I could get some feedback from people with some actual experience at this.

The long and the short is that due primarily to the differences in how the original versus Dexter axles are constructed, the shock mounts on the arms are not in-line with the mounts on the frame. I haven’t done an exact measurement yet, but I would say that it is roughly an inch. See pic:
Attachment 98602
Of obvious note is that the shocks are not AS “approved”. If I wind up having to ditch the shocks altogether, I will be glad I didn’t spring for new ones. What I will say is that the rubber bushings on said non-approved shocks are very thick, and easily taking up the slack resulting from the misalignment.

So, how bad is this?

Short of eliminating the shocks altogether or moving the brackets on the axles (I don’t weld, or have any friends who do), what are my options? Or, do I even have any.

Many thanks in advance.

Dumpster

There is no need for this to end up as just another dispute thread. Please keep your posts on topic and helpful.

[SilverHoot]

Here we go again and again and again and again.....

[biggoofball]

Originally Posted by w7ts

I am saying that you appear to pick and chose what manufacturer's instructions to follow, based on whether or not it supports your already held beliefs.

Doesn't everyone?

for instance: On a given topic I might believe my research and experience over yours, Andy's or Frank's. No offense just an example.

My research/experience would say put the shocks back on. With a slightly bent mount. And then monitor the situation. check shocks more frequently just to be sure all was going well. I look forward to sesing how it turns out as I need axles on my '73.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I am putting a pair on a 1973 too. Just placed the order yesterday. We will see how it goes.

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by Dumpster

Thanks, Eric,

I was starting to think I was nuts, or was sold the wrong axle.

Although the perspective is different (and one is pink, sorry, camera on the fritz), the two photos below seem to represent the situation pretty well. The biggest issue is the difference in how the axles are constructed. The Hen's arm is about double the width, and there is more room between the arm and the hub. Also, look at the amount of axle tube between the mounting bracket and the arm on both. These are very significant differences. According to my measurements, moving the shock bracket on the arm from the most outside to the most inside wouldn't even allow for proper alignment.

The consensus seems to be that I can bend brackets or remove the shocks altogether. Since my cutting torch is sitting right next to my MIG welder at the Miller dealer, I think I might have to opt for removal. Or, just see what happens. I think a shock would get trashed long before anything else down there.

Maybe the answer is stepping up to a #11 axle, or going with Axis. Either way, hopefully this will prove helpful to the next person in line to do the swap.

Attachment 98653 Attachment 98654

Hey Dumpster;
Sorry that I have not learned about your problem sooner. Give me the measurement for out of line discrepancy. I will make you a four large diameter spacers tapped on one side for a bolt to attach the spacer to the frame. The other side I will weld in a bolt Grade#8 in with threads on the end for the shock retaining nut. Give me the measurements for size of bolts and length o shock stud. Andy is telling you the truth they are special shocks. Thanks "boatdoc"

[toastie]

Originally Posted by silverleeper

This thread was started to help a forums member... Lets review.


There is no need for this to end up as just another dispute thread. Please keep your posts on topic and helpful.

Just bought some cold beer and popping some pop corn.........toastie

[Inland RV Center, In]

Boatdoc

Usually bending, within reason, a shock bracket to accomodate the OEM shock, is OK.

Our experience is that the rubber grommets will take a little punishment, but they will still last as long as the life of the shock.

Where the trouble seems to be, is when an owner wants to use an after market shock, that doesn't fit correctly in the first place, and for that matter will not work in a horizontal position, since it's a vertical shock.

Airstream has used the horizontal shock since the late 1968 models.

Vertical shocks will not work correctly in a horizontal position. A simple hand to hand test, demonstrates that.

Andy

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by w7ts

Andy,

It sounds to me that you are taking a position 180 degrees out from your position on weight distribution. In weight distribution, you recommend lighter springer bars, which allow a more springy less shocking ride.

In this case you are recommending a device that is going to cause more jolt and shock from the trailer suspension.

A shock absorber is a very inappropriately named device. It is in fact a spring dampener. It introduces resistance to the springs motion.

The thing that actually absorbs shock in a suspension system is the spring itself. When you introduce a "shock absorber", it impedes the action of the spring and every new sudden vertical movement is going to be initially transfered with more force to the vehicle due to the resistance of the "shock absorber".

Call it what you may, A "shock absorber" increases the roughness of ride and decreases the actual vertical travel of the vehicle ( its intended purpose)

To put it simply a shock absorber decreases the vertical travel of a suspension system, but allows causes greater acceleration forces (shock) to be passed through the system.


Regards,

Ken

Hi Ken;
I believe there is a lot of confusion going on in reference to what role shock absorbers play. Roads are never perfectly flat and you know it. Have you ever observed a empty Toad being towed? The trailer wheels never stop bouncing. This should be your clue as to what shocks do. Rubber rods in a torsion axle are very springy, they bounce right back onto pavement after hitting a bump, thus increasing the force on the tire when it contacts the road on the rebound. Shock slows down the time of returning the tire onto pavement and thus making a smoother transition and not allowing the tire to go into reciprocal harmonic vibration. I know that you will tell me that the reason for a bounce in the empty Toad is because they run empty which is partially true. However the uneven pavement still is a factor even under load. Without the shock the tire itself takes the abuse instead of the shock, and that is how the tire gets hot and de-laminates. Most shocks have different size orifices for up or down travel pending weight of the vehicle. They usually travel faster up and slower on down stroke thus smoothing out the reciprocating vibrations from the road. I will make no more arguments in reference to shocks with anyone so please spare the effort. I have four shocks on my 26' Argosy and we never had anything falling off the table while towing even half cup of coffee. Thanks, "Boatdoc":brows :

[3Ms75Argosy]

Popcorn? Heck, I just finished my tub watching the last "what tow vehicle" thread! Axles, shocks, tow vehicles... just wait until someone mentions a bike rack on the rear!

Marc

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy

Popcorn? Heck, I just finished my tub watching the last "what tow vehicle" thread! Axles, shocks, tow vehicles... just wait until someone mentions a bike rack on the rear!

Marc

Okay...
I want to install a bike rack on the rear of my 34' Excella that has Axis axles, which I tow with my dually... Any opinions?

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Okay...I want to install a bike rack on the rear of my 34' Excella that has Axis axles, which I tow with my dually... Any opinions?

Terry:

Better Watch Out! Its my opinion that you will experience a Harmonic Divergence. . .

[boatdoc]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Okay...
I want to install a bike rack on the rear of my 34' Excella that has Axis axles, which I tow with my dually... Any opinions?

Hi overlande63; and 47WeeWind; Sarcastic questions and comments are not what Forums were intended for. Who cares, just do it. "Boatdoc"

[TomW]

I thought it was kind of funny. The Forums were intended for many things. A little levity now & then helps take the edge off.

Tom