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Old 03-23-2010, 08:04 AM   #15
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I thought I was nuts

Thanks, Eric,

I was starting to think I was nuts, or was sold the wrong axle.

Although the perspective is different (and one is pink, sorry, camera on the fritz), the two photos below seem to represent the situation pretty well. The biggest issue is the difference in how the axles are constructed. The Hen's arm is about double the width, and there is more room between the arm and the hub. Also, look at the amount of axle tube between the mounting bracket and the arm on both. These are very significant differences. According to my measurements, moving the shock bracket on the arm from the most outside to the most inside wouldn't even allow for proper alignment.

The consensus seems to be that I can bend brackets or remove the shocks altogether. Since my cutting torch is sitting right next to my MIG welder at the Miller dealer, I think I might have to opt for removal. Or, just see what happens. I think a shock would get trashed long before anything else down there.

Maybe the answer is stepping up to a #11 axle, or going with Axis. Either way, hopefully this will prove helpful to the next person in line to do the swap.

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Old 03-23-2010, 09:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Dumpster View Post
Maybe the answer is stepping up to a #11 axle, or going with Axis. Either way, hopefully this will prove helpful to the next person in line to do the swap.
That won't help either.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dumpster View Post
Thanks, Eric,

I was starting to think I was nuts, or was sold the wrong axle.

Although the perspective is different (and one is pink, sorry, camera on the fritz), the two photos below seem to represent the situation pretty well. The biggest issue is the difference in how the axles are constructed. The Hen's arm is about double the width, and there is more room between the arm and the hub. Also, look at the amount of axle tube between the mounting bracket and the arm on both. These are very significant differences. According to my measurements, moving the shock bracket on the arm from the most outside to the most inside wouldn't even allow for proper alignment.

The consensus seems to be that I can bend brackets or remove the shocks altogether. Since my cutting torch is sitting right next to my MIG welder at the Miller dealer, I think I might have to opt for removal. Or, just see what happens. I think a shock would get trashed long before anything else down there.

Maybe the answer is stepping up to a #11 axle, or going with Axis. Either way, hopefully this will prove helpful to the next person in line to do the swap.
Dexter doesn't think shocks are even needed with a torsion axle, and Airstreams are about the only trailer that has them. A forums member did a test a couple of years ago, with and without shocks. There was a measurable difference, but it was something like a 5% difference, which is pretty insignificant.
So, if the shocks go *pffft* on your trailer, you can simply remove them, and the bracket, if needed.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:48 AM   #18
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Torsion axles, when hitting a bump, tend to "chatter", sort of like a bouncing ball, because of the rubber rods.

Rubber bounces, we all know that.

The shocks, curtail {limit} that bouncing, since they are motion restricters.

Dexter can say whatever they wish, but they cannot over rule physics, or the behavior of rubber.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:42 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Torsion axles, when hitting a bump, tend to "chatter", sort of like a bouncing ball, because of the rubber rods.

Rubber bounces, we all know that.

The shocks, curtail {limit} that bouncing, since they are motion restricters.

Dexter can say whatever they wish, but they cannot over rule physics, or the behavior of rubber.

Andy
All three major manufacturers of torsion axles contradict what you are trying to say, and what they say is torsion axles are self-dampening. If what you say is true, why does even Airstream not bother putting shocks on some of their torsion axle equipped (brand-new, latest research and technology) trailers?
Or maybe Airstream got the laws of physics suspended for these trailers?
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #20
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If what you say is true, why does even Airstream not bother putting shocks on some of their torsion axle equipped (brand-new, latest research and technology) trailers?
So some people can argue.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:10 AM   #21
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so are you trying to tell me that a shock is giving too much dampening. I will take all the shock absorption I can get.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:20 AM   #22
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axle assembly

Photo showing no shock bracket installed prior to installing the shaft and rubber rods within the axle tube.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Torsion axles, when hitting a bump, tend to "chatter", sort of like a bouncing ball, because of the rubber rods.

Rubber bounces, we all know that.

The shocks, curtail {limit} that bouncing, since they are motion restricters.

Dexter can say whatever they wish, but they cannot over rule physics, or the behavior of rubber.

Andy
Andy,

It sounds to me that you are taking a position 180 degrees out from your position on weight distribution. In weight distribution, you recommend lighter springer bars, which allow a more springy less shocking ride.

In this case you are recommending a device that is going to cause more jolt and shock from the trailer suspension.

A shock absorber is a very inappropriately named device. It is in fact a spring dampener. It introduces resistance to the springs motion.

The thing that actually absorbs shock in a suspension system is the spring itself. When you introduce a "shock absorber", it impedes the action of the spring and every new sudden vertical movement is going to be initially transfered with more force to the vehicle due to the resistance of the "shock absorber".

Call it what you may, A "shock absorber" increases the roughness of ride and decreases the actual vertical travel of the vehicle ( its intended purpose)

To put it simply a shock absorber decreases the vertical travel of a suspension system, but allows causes greater acceleration forces (shock) to be passed through the system.


Regards,

Ken
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:33 PM   #24
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Andy,

It sounds to me that you are taking a position 180 degrees out from your position on weight distribution. In weight distribution, you recommend lighter springer bars, which allow a more springy less shocking ride.

In this case you are recommending a device that is going to cause more jolt and shock from the trailer suspension.

A shock absorber is a very inappropriately named device. It is in fact a spring dampener. It introduces resistance to the springs motion.

The thing that actually absorbs shock in a suspension system is the spring itself. When you introduce a "shock absorber", it impedes the action of the spring and every new sudden vertical movement is going to be initially transfered with more force to to the vehicle due to the resistance of the "shock absorber".

Call it what you may, A "shock absorber" increases the roughness of ride and decrease the actual vertical travel of the vehicle ( its intended purpose)

To put it simply a shock absorber decreases the vertical travel of a suspension system, but allows causes greater acceleration forces (shock) to be passed through the system.


Regards,

Ken
Another negative for the auto industry, and I guess Airstream too.

Shocks causing harm???

I don't think so.

Andy
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:51 PM   #25
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I purchased axles from Andy, they were a reasonable fit. Meaning my trailer is 43 years old so I did not anticipate a direct bolt up. My axles came supplyed with shock brackets for me to weld on. The brackets are sitting in the backyard where I am performing a rust test on them. I am firmly in the camp that feels the shocks are a waste of time and money. I have only towed my trailer about 1500 miles since the axle swap so time will tell. Adios, John
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:22 PM   #26
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I'm with Andy and Frank. I'll take all the dampening I can get. But I'm a bit old school. Cheers to those that are going with out and are happy.

Just to be clear, If you have a brand new trailer with no shocks, I'm not telling you to put them on. I'm just a fan of returning something to the way the engineer designed it to be. He probably designed it that way for a reason.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:41 PM   #27
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Another negative for the auto industry, and I guess Airstream too.

Shocks causing harm???

I don't think so.

Andy
I know you don't THINK so. That is my point.

I didn't say they cause harm, I simply said they increase the shock to the vehicle. You are the one who says shock causes harm.

You often state that something is physics so it can't be argued with. This is physics. If you are familiar with physics, sit down, and do a little math before you just fire off another reply.

My point is that you recommend users ignore the advice given by hitch manufacturers, because it will increase shock to the trailer, yet here you are advocating following advice from only certain manufacturers (follow Airstream, ignore Dexter), that will in fact cause increased jarring to the trailer.

I am not saying that shocks are bad, I am saying that you appear to pick and chose what manufacturer's instructions to follow, based on whether or not it supports your already held beliefs.

Regards,


Ken
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:53 PM   #28
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This thread was started to help a forums member... Lets review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumpster View Post
I thought I should start a new thread about a problem I encountered swapping out my axles this weekend, in the hopes that I could get some feedback from people with some actual experience at this.

The long and the short is that due primarily to the differences in how the original versus Dexter axles are constructed, the shock mounts on the arms are not in-line with the mounts on the frame. I havenít done an exact measurement yet, but I would say that it is roughly an inch. See pic:
Attachment 98602
Of obvious note is that the shocks are not AS ďapprovedĒ. If I wind up having to ditch the shocks altogether, I will be glad I didnít spring for new ones. What I will say is that the rubber bushings on said non-approved shocks are very thick, and easily taking up the slack resulting from the misalignment.

So, how bad is this?

Short of eliminating the shocks altogether or moving the brackets on the axles (I donít weld, or have any friends who do), what are my options? Or, do I even have any.

Many thanks in advance.

Dumpster
There is no need for this to end up as just another dispute thread. Please keep your posts on topic and helpful.
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