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Old 04-07-2006, 03:42 PM   #29
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Zeppelinium

Compare the axle mounting brackets from the original axle to the Axis replacement.

One of the mounting holes should be round, not oval.

Two oval holes can in time, permit movement of the axle, since the bolts could slide up or down. The only thing that will hold the axle in place is the amount of foot pounds you use to keep the bolts/washers from moving, if your lucky.

Also replacemnt axles should be installed with grade "8" hardware.
Andy
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Old 04-10-2006, 08:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
...mounting brackets ...
One of the mounting holes should be round, not oval.

Two oval holes can in time, permit movement of the axle, since the bolts could slide up or down. The only thing that will hold the axle in place is the amount of foot pounds you use...
Andy, that is a concern.

I was thinking that once I got the durn thing up on the frame, I'd (1) see if the slots are precisely located relative to the existing frame holes and (2) once the bolts are in, put a small steel plate with a 5/8" hole over the bolt, then weld it to the bracket. That would provide a precisely located mounting hole on the axle and eliminate the potential for the axle to torque up and down. Photos to follow, of course.

I know quite a few others have installed this vendor's axle and been satisfied. On the other hand, one of our frequent posters has said he's had about a 70% problem rate with the ones he's installed. I thought I'd document everything and let members reach their own conclusions. I hink the lack of head space for the brake plate bolts is the only realy problem I've encountered so far, and you'd have to break a bolt for the problem to materialize (not likely).

Progress report: first coat of POR 15 is on and my hands look like I repack bearings for a living and don't wash. Oh well, what's a couple weeks of black fingernails?

Thanks, Roger
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:48 AM   #31
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Axis Axles

Trevisgarne,
I have a set of Axis axles for my 76 31" . I ordered the following 2) 3700# axles with the high Profile mount which will raise your trailer 2" to help the tail drag issue. 22.5 degree down angle. The axles were cambered and did have the spindle zerk option. I also speced the 5200# stub axle with the 12" kodiak disk brakes.
I have had them installed and have used the trailer quite a bit for the last six months and I am very happy with the setup I have. If I can help at all let me know.
Mike B
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevisgardne
I'm trying to order new Axis axles for my 71 31" Soveriegn. I am struggling with a few questions and would appreciate any input.

1. Should I spec two 4000lb axles or greater?
2. Should I spec 22.5 degress down angle or 45 degrees? ( will this help rearend drag that much or will it make the trailer top heavy in a turn?)
3. Should I select camber ? Should camber be 3/4" positive?
4. Should I get the spindle zerk fitting option? or will this just lead to overlube and ruined brake shoes?
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Old 04-10-2006, 09:19 PM   #32
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For those of you that have replaced your axles , can you tell me what the total up and down travel measures with the wheels and tires on . Thanks
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Old 04-10-2006, 11:07 PM   #33
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for a swing arm axle with a 6" radius (my Axis, for example, and others are within 1/2"), the total up motion from no load (axle in the 22.5 degree down position) to what I think is the maximum up position (approximately 5 degrees positive) is 2.84".

Because the wheel is swinging on an arc, it also moves back 0.5" as it moves up.

For vintage trailers, the axle is usually sitting near zero degrees, so it doesn't move much at all. Once I get the axle installed on my Caravel, I'll be very interested in its "at rest" loaded angle. I'll post that along with all the other promised data.

My shock mount (see drawing in previous post) will increase that radius (for the shock only--wheel isn't affected) to 8.75" and a corresponding shock movement of 4.5" (very near the maximum 555003 shock capability). The nifty outcome of this vertical shock installation design is that if the axle compresses a little over the years (for instance, the no load position is 15 degrees down), the Monroe 555002 shock will fit the reduced space perfectly.
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:04 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticki2
For those of you that have replaced your axles , can you tell me what the total up and down travel measures with the wheels and tires on . Thanks
If you want the no load/full load/ shock load height dimensions, you can find them on the Dexter axle site.
The dimensions are for six inch arms. Be sure you use the correct weight axle as they show several different sizes. They also show the dimensions with various tire sizes.

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1080235/f/6-8K%...0_res_2-05.pdf
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:20 AM   #35
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Right on!

Markdoane is correct - Dexter has a fantastic web site full of technical information. Additionally, they are the largest manufacturer of trailer axles in the USA!

Regards,
Henry
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Old 04-11-2006, 02:52 PM   #36
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Zep , Mark , and Axleman , thanks for the reply. When I was changing tires I took some measurements and here is what I came up with . Trailer in zig , 2800# original axles, front axle wheels up on blocks with full weight , rear axle hanging free with wheel on . Front wheel rim to underside of fender = 2 1/2" . Rear wheel rim to underside of fender 5 1/2" . Trailer with both wheels on the ground , top of rim to underside of fender = 4". After checking out the Dexter site it looks like my axles are right about at spec , what do you think .
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:56 PM   #37
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Tiki2,

Very clever way to estimate axle condition! I'll do that on my Ovelander and Excella, but couldn't on the Caravel, for obvious reasons.

Well, from normal load, at 4" down, to double load, at 2-1/2" down, gives you 1-1/2" movement for what I would think would be normal bumps. Your axles probably will boing up (technical term for axle reaction to a bump/force) a little higher under the force of a nasty pothole, maybe 2" (2" down), maybe 2-1/2" (1-1/2" down) total travel. I don't know if that's enough, but it's certainly not a dead axle.
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Old 04-12-2006, 09:26 PM   #38
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Will Storing on Jackstands do Any Good?

From another thread:
I got a great answer on process and liftpoints, but no theory on using jackstands now on a 30 year old trailer.

Is it worthwhile to store your Airstream on jackstands to take the weight off tires, wheel bearings and axles?

If so, where should you postion hydraulic jack and jackstands?

How do my axles look?

If axles are already "tired," can you retard their loss of torsion or will you hasten it by using jackstands at the end of their service life expectancy?

Roger, I look forward to seeing you at the RMVAC '06 rally to talk axles.

Ken

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Old 04-12-2006, 10:27 PM   #39
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Hello to everyone here,I have read over these posts here about all your axle problems .First I sure hope that zeppelinium put some saftey stands under that trailer before working on that axle removal .I didnt see any and that jack holding it up while sitting on a dirt area ! come on you guys we dont need any deaths here. It is not necessary to throw away leaf spring axles if your leaf springs are old and sagging. Don,t rebuild the springs a waste of time. you can have new ones built for you by your local spring shop if you have one.Check around or get info on where there is a reputable place to build new ones,Eaton detroit spring is a good one. I dont see how it is easier to throw it all away, special order an axis axle complete, make a cutout in the frame , put it in holes need to be drilled make sure that the axle is" square" in the frame ,find out your shock brackets are on backwards ,pay for a welder to come out and fix them ,put on the upper shock bolt both sides , or find out you cannot unbolt the backing plate to change the brake assembly because the clearance is wrong .I have also seen on the forums that even the mounting plates are not placed right be it axis ,or dexter both have done it wrong ,and to top it all off you may have to send it back to have it fixed right and pay partial shipping!!!! That 350 dollars doesnt seem like a deal to me. I compiled this posting from what I have read right hear on the forums. If you go overboard on the tension of the torsion axle it most certtainly will be rough on the trailer unless the upgrade will be with a heavier loaded coach . If you anticipate heavier traveling loads than the standard axle provides then yes I would say upgrade. The shock absorber is there to absorb the rebound effect of the tire and wheel after jolts on the road ,It will help in the trailer not getting pounded under rough roads . Some say no ? ride down a rough road in the trailer without the shocks and see if its bouncy . Take the shocks off your tow vehical and drive it around . It is the rebound effect that needs to be smoothed out. Ill keep my hadco axle and the new springs on my trdwnd .Inland andy is pretty sharp and I would buy the henchen that bolts right in without all these problems to sort out.I wouldnt hit him too hard on the head to prove this and that .

scott
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Old 04-12-2006, 11:36 PM   #40
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Ken,

I'll attempt to help you out.

If the torsion axle you have is worn out. IE the rubber in the axle has taken a set and the trailer sits lower than it would when the axles were new. Then not much you can do to reverse it. Setting it up on jack stands for a long period of time may do nothing because the rubber has already taken a set. With a 30 year old trailer you could do a 30 year experiment and let us all know in 2035 what you came up with by jacking up the trailer and letting the axles hang. This has not been done to my knowledge.

Based on your pic your axles do not look too bad for being 30 years old. The tire is still visable above the top of the rim.

For storage if you wish, (and I do this) is store the trailer on jack stands. The way I do this is using 4 jack stands and all 4 stabilizers and the electric front trailer jack. The tires still touch the ground, however most of the weight is off the axles. I raise the trailer with the stabilizers and the front jack. Install the stands on the frame rail near the axles and drop the trailer on the stands and leave some weight on the stabilizer jacks and front jack. So when I am done the trailer is supported by 4 jack stands, 4 stabilizers, 4 tires and the front jack when it sits unused. It sits higher than if on the tires alone.

And for what it's worth I do need axles on my dual axle set up. However my trailer is not a pretty thing. Didn't pay big bucks for it. I do not have anything inside that is of high value. And I take it mostly to MX every year to see the ocean. So replacing the axles is not high on my to do list. And my to do list is so very long, it will be a long time before I get to the axles.

Your trailer looks nice from what I see.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
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Old 04-14-2006, 12:39 AM   #41
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some progress

It's been frustrating getting the POR 15 applied. Lots of wire brushing and grinding and applying Metal Ready (completely safe, non corrosive, but let me tell you, it burns like methiolate {younsters, look it up} in a cut). Humidity had the gall to go below 10%, so no chance of getting two coats on in one day. On the other hand, I had a mighty fine bug collection. Gloves are a must, but I don't care what you do when you're on your back with 18" clearance--you get it on you. I'll let you know how long it takes to wear off (yes, I tried the olive oil without any perceptible improvement). Here's the nicely coated frame:

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By the way, black is all they had in stock in Denver. You absolutely cannot tell where the second coat is. I suggest using two colors if you want to do a good job on the second coat (my only experience is black, so maybe the others work better as far as being able to detect where you just put the second coat).

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Before moving on, recall the pesky little problem of the chaffed 2" grey water drain. The metal sheathed rubber pipe connector shown below was just the ticket for repairing the damage. You have to cut out the center stop ridge, since the pipe wasn't quite perforated and cutting it in half at that point in between the frame member would have been a second trial. I just wanted to protect it from further damage. Once you cut the rubber piece, it's a snap to modify and install.

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P.S.-for those worried about adequate support, I don't trust jack stands except for when I DON'T have to get under the trailer. I always provide an untippable support with a very wide base. We had winds over 50 kts here this past week and the trailer didn't even wiggle.
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:02 AM   #42
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Wooden frame members

The belly pan is 58" wide, frame to frame, and 61" wide if you include the frame flanges. The skin has to ride on the flanges, so you can't replace the skin with a single piece unless you use roofing coil aluminum. I elected to use standard 4x8' sheets of .032, (I think 5000 alloy with a mill finish. Not too picky about what I use underneath). Anyway, I don't have a hole finder for picking up the rivet holes in the cross members, so I copied sneakinup's idea to put in treated 2-by lumber so I can just use screws across the middle. I also had a broken cross frame, and this will strenghten that part of the frame. More on the skins later.

The lumber framing was rabbited at the ends so they would fit into the main frame's web. Holes were drilled just deep enough so that the deck screws would protrude up into the floor 5/8". Drain pipes are in the way, so only one wooden frame piece ran the whole width. You have to be careful what length you install--the space between cross frames isn't wide enough that you can caddy-corner a full length piece in.

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Once the lumber was in place (with liquid nails, of course), it was also screwed to the each of the webs in the cross frames. They are in very firmly. Ignore the insulation, that comes in the next post.

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If you look really close, you can see one of the screws through the cross frame web into the lumber. This particular frame member required two pieces due to the drain pipe.
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