Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-02-2006, 09:47 AM   #15
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Juel,

I don't think you need to replace leaf springs if they are in good condition. I took mine to a spring shop for inspection, and added one leaf because I am uprating GVWR.

If they are tired and starting to lose arc, I would seriously think about replacing them with torsion axles. Re-arcing leaf springs is only a temporary fix.
__________________

__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 11:04 AM   #16
Rivet Monster
 
wahoonc's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,174
Images: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by juel
Ok, tell me again why I need to replace the axels on my trailer because it's a 58. I've had so many different opinions. Some say you "have " to, some say to just look at them to see where the trailer rides on them. I just brought this trailer home and from looking, and pulling, it seems fine. It has the leaf springs, which also look to be in great shape. I'm confused.
Juel,
I would get a local second opinion but from your picture the ride height doesn't look too bad to me. While a leaf spring suspension will sag over time, they won't necessarily "set" like the rubber torsion ones will.

Aaron
__________________

__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 11:46 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Ken J's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,363
Images: 14
I am one who thinks the axle should be replaced - as I did mine.

The axle is almost 50 years old - metal can fatigue, springs get weak etc - for relatively little money you have brand new running gear, upgraded bearings/hubs/brakes that will last many years - in my case the new axle is much more stout - I also think the newer drums are more in balance.

Another reason I replaced is because my bushings were badly worn - almost to the point to where the springs would have fallen off.

I also replaced my hitch - to a modern 2 5/16 in ball.

Plus when its new it all looks soooo pretty.......

Ken J
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
Ken J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 01:32 PM   #18
4 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
Currently Looking...
Somewhere , Indiana
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 432
I'd check it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

2. Dropped the axle and took some comparative photos--yes, the shock bracket is backwards on the new axle, but I could have done a better job on the drawing. As it turns out, I'm going to cut off the old brackets and re-use them.
Zep,

You may want to contact Axis and make sure that this does NOT void the warranty.

Just my two cents,
Henry
__________________
axleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2006, 04:19 PM   #19
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,067
Images: 13
The pic of the shock in post #9 pic 2 & 3 above is an excellant example of a shock that is bad.

In fact it has been bad for some time. The seal in the shock has been leaking and leaking for such a time that road dirt has accumulated on the shock oil that has leaked out.

So if you ever see this condition on any shock on any vehicle. No testing is needed. The shock is no longer functioning. Replace it.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:07 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
The pic of the shock in post #9 pic 2 & 3 above is an excellant example of a shock that is bad. ...
No duh! But it's hard to take the time when (a) many say that shocks aren't needed and (b) you intend to replace the axle "soonest" and don't want to drop the axle just to do the shocks (despite Andy's method of bending the bracket, so you don't have to drop the axle--I saw him do it and it's very clever). Excuses, excuses....

Anyway, here's a progress update. Got most the rust and old paint either off or scrubbed inside the belly pan, bumper locker, and bumper. Will use the Metal Ready today, wash the area, then wait for it to dry. Weather here is not the best, so fingers crossed for getting it "perfectly dry" as the instructions for POR 15 require.

Now that I got the belly pan off, I intend to go ahead with the new shock mount, per my previous idea in post #9 (because I can now get the upper shock mount installed from the inside--it will be just above the bottom rail of the frame). Here's a drawing that gives me confidence that it will fit and work--I assumed that the maximum movement of the swing arm is 22.5 degrees down and 5 degrees up. Note in the drawing that the margins are pretty tight--the min shock length arc with the arm "UP" (9.5", in green) and the max length arc with the arm "DOWN" (14.75" in blue) leaves only a small area where the upper mount can be placed (the red circle, which could move a little bit left or right). The upper mount is placed to provide about 0.4" of clearance to the swing arm at the full down position. This clearance improves as the arm moves up.

Yes, the axle can actually move down further than it's static position of 22.5 degrees, but the tire practically has to leave the ground for this to be possible. Yes, I have hit a bump that hard, but that was with the old axle. I am thinking that a properly sprung and dampened suspension will rarely encounter this problem and that the forces in that direction, at that angle, with be small enough that the shock can restrain the wheel in the downward direction without failing mechanically. Other opinions welcome.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Axis shock bracket-m.gif
Views:	189
Size:	62.6 KB
ID:	20227
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 11:23 AM   #21
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
something I've noticed while futsing around with the welding shop is the difference between the old Henschen wheel mount and drum, versus the new Axis. You can see in the photos that the space between the brake plate bracket and the swing arm in on the Henschen allows one to install/remove the nuts on the plate bolts.

No such room on the Axis. It appears that the bolts were put into the plate, then the plate and mount were inserted into the swing arm and welded. I doubt you could ever break one of these bolts, but if you did you'd have to be very clever to replace the ones that are right up against the swing arm. Hmmmm......

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4894 henschen swing arm-s.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	100.3 KB
ID:	20228
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4895 Axis swing arm-s.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	102.1 KB
ID:	20229

Part of the clearance problem is due to the increased depth of the new drum, plus the fact that I requested the axle to be 3/8" shorter on each end. Can't wait to get this beast installed to see if there are any other possible gotchas. Ooh, looking at the photos is appears that Axis might have been able to shorten the square axle tube and lengthen the brake plate support post to achieve the same total drum face to drum face length, but still get brake plate bolt clearance.
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 04:14 PM   #22
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,067
Images: 13
When it comes time to replace the brakes and the desire is to do a fully loaded brake replacement, someone is gonna be cursing a lot because of that clearence issue.

BTW I replaced the shocks on my Overlander with out dropping the axle. As I recall, one side was rather easy. The other was somewhat of an interferrence fit. Still worked out with little bending.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2006, 08:11 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
Elgin , Texas
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 800
Images: 164
Uh... hold the phone...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Dropped the axle and took some comparative photos--yes, the shock bracket is backwards on the new axle, but I could have done a better job on the drawing. As it turns out, I'm going to cut off the old brackets and re-use them.
If Axis inadvertently welded the shock brackets on backwards, shouldn't they be making it right, rather than you applying heat and potentially voiding the warranty, as Henry suggests?
__________________

bake315 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 03:43 AM   #24
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by coriolis1
If Axis inadvertently welded the shock brackets on backwards, shouldn't they be making it right, rather than you applying heat and potentially voiding the warranty, as Henry suggests?
Probably, but I see this as a cooperative experiment. By time I'm done, I'll be able to spec an Axis axle perfectly (I've four more to go). Besides, I've decided I want the bracket placed totally differently in order to achieve a vertical installation, so Axis didn't have a chance to do it right (you can wrap this logic any way you want). And I don't have time to ship it back. I need to depart next week on a long business trip and I HATE thinking about spending a month in a hotel.

The real reason I'm not too worried is that if I've got to ship the axle back to Axis to get the warranty satisfied, the round trip is 2/3 the cost of a new axle--why bother unless they did something that actually made me mad? Plus, I am confident that the heat transfer from the solid casting-to the "spike"-to the rubber will be controllable with a wet rag. In my pre-order conversations with Axis, the salesman (Chad) indicated they were willing to send the bracket to me separately so I could put it on where I liked. Doesn't sound to me like they are concerned about this.
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 12:10 PM   #25
2 Rivet Member
 
trevisgardne's Avatar
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Maryville , Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 85
Images: 19
Axis Axle Order

I'm trying to order new Axis axles for my 71 31" Soveriegn. I am struggling with a few questions and would appreciate any input.

1. Should I spec two 4000lb axles or greater?
2. Should I spec 22.5 degress down angle or 45 degrees? ( will this help rearend drag that much or will it make the trailer top heavy in a turn?)
3. Should I select camber ? Should camber be 3/4" positive?
4. Should I get the spindle zerk fitting option? or will this just lead to overlube and ruined brake shoes?
__________________
trevisgardne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 02:10 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevisgardne
I'm trying to order new Axis axles for my 71 31" Soveriegn. I am struggling with a few questions and would appreciate any input.

1. Should I spec two 4000lb axles or greater?
Can you weigh it? I went to the local gardening/rock supply and they had no problem giving me a weight for free. I don't think your trailer weighs 8,000lbs, at least not on the axles. It turns out the axle and drums weigh about 280 lbs, so you have subtract the part that is unsprung (drums, brakes, half the swing arm), about half, times two axles. So whatever weight you get, the sprung weight is about 300 lbs less. Then add in water and other stuff you'd normally travel with, if it wasn't aboard when you got the weight. Now divide that by 2 and add 100 lbs or so. I bet you wind up around 3,700 lbs for each axle. You don't want to make it higher than needed because it makes the ride harder, which stresses the trailer, especially increasing the rear end separation problem--a bigger problem the longer your trailer, and 31' is the longest on 2 axles.

Are you considering disc brakes? If so, I think Axis puts 10" discs on axles less than 4,000 lbs and 12" at 4,000 and above. I think 10" are more than adequate, so I wouldn't get a stiff axle just to get bigger discs. I am going to do discs on my Sovereigh and Exella (27' and 31').

Quote:
2. Should I spec 22.5 degress down angle or 45 degrees? ( will this help rearend drag that much or will it make the trailer top heavy in a turn?)
I considered 45 degrees and decided to stick with the 22.5. Yes, it will raise you up about 2" more, but I suspect you have an almost flat axle now, so it will really take you up a total of 4" from where you are now. You entry step height will be high, for one thing. I'd like to hear from anyone who has done this.

Quote:
3. Should I select camber ? Should camber be 3/4" positive?
Yes, your current axle is cambered (you can see the slight bend in the middle of the square axle tube in your existing axles). I don't know aobut the 3/4" positive--there was no setpoint offered on my order form.

Quote:
4. Should I get the spindle zerk fitting option? or will this just lead to overlube and ruined brake shoes?
I didn't. I have the same concern and I like to check the brakes fairly often, which gives you an excuse to lube the bearings anyway.
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 03:14 PM   #27
Rivet Master
 
Zeppelinium's Avatar

 
1975 31' Sovereign
1973 27' Overlander
1977 23' Safari
Palmer Lake , Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,908
Send a message via Skype™ to Zeppelinium
slight delay due to weather...

Good morning, Andy. Wish I had your So Cal weather here for a few days (without the rain, I guess). The Colorado spring has reared it's ugly head, but it's supposed to be spring again tomorrow and nearly summer by Sunday! Love it here.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4901 Caravel-s.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	85.6 KB
ID:	20248Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4900 <a title=sovereign horiz-s.jpg Views: 110 Size: 111.7 KB ID: 20246" style="margin: 2px" />

I did get out this morning in the snow to meet the welder. The shock brackets are on just about exactly where I wanted them (about 1hr 20 minutes and $65). From the looks of the bracket in the photo, I could have easily slid it another inch aft and put the shock in almost true vertical--see new drawing later. I have to agree with Andy, there is a lot of learning and spec'ing to do if you order an Axis axle. I guess the experiment continues!

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4898 street bracket-s.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	96.2 KB
ID:	20249

Per Andy's remarks about quality and alignment, I'll be making a trip of about 2600 miles over a month period, right after I get this thing installed. Perhaps I will be able to tell something from tire wear, etc. Report to follow. Gen Dissary, how're your Axis axle(s) performing?
Zeppelinium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 03:24 PM   #28
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,067
Images: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeppelinium
Good morning, Andy. Wish I had your So Cal weather here for a few days (without the rain, I guess). The Colorado spring has reared it's ugly head, but it's supposed to be spring again tomorrow and nearly summer by Sunday! Love it here.
Slide on down the hill. By the time you make it here, it should be sunny and 90. That's the prediction for Sunday.

>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________

__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Duratorque Axle Replacement Andy R Axles 18 03-19-2017 09:54 PM
Tag axle shock rdm Mechanics Corner - Engines, Transmission & More... 8 07-10-2008 08:15 PM
Who made my axle? Pahaska Axles 44 07-25-2007 11:08 AM
one or two axle? vallan1980 Airstream Trailer Forums 5 09-17-2002 06:47 PM
Axle Offset Question DanLyle Axles 11 08-28-2002 10:35 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.