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Old 03-31-2011, 06:49 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
I'm going to take up a collection to get Steve his very own big wooden spoon for Christmas so he can stir the pot better...
He's doing quite well with just a plastic coffee stirrer.
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:56 AM   #72
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True that I've said I'm not keeping a budget. That doesn't mean I'm going to waste money on things I believe are not necessary.
just stirring with Steve salesmen will try to sell you what they want not necessarily what you need. the stopping power between the 10 & 12 on a '70's trailer will i believe be negligible. on my 97 30' widebody it would probably make a difference.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:33 AM   #73
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Electric brake ratings

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just stirring with Steve salesmen will try to sell you what they want not necessarily what you need. the stopping power between the 10 & 12 on a '70's trailer will i believe be negligible. on my 97 30' widebody it would probably make a difference.
Manufacturers stopping power specs on top grade electric brakes are;

10 inch 3500 pounds per axle.

12 inch 6200 pounds per axle.

That is a huge difference of 176 percent.

But again, thats when the brakes are perfectly and properly adjusted, which seldom happens.

In the absence of proper adjustment, the stopping power can drop as much as 50 percent, and sometimes even more, according to the manufacturers, who know far more than the general public, about their products.

At 50 percent, 10 inch brakes can then properly stop 1750 pounds per axle, and 12 inch brakes can properly stop 3100 pounds per axle.

Perhaps the new style "self adjusting" electric brakes will become extremely popular, even though they cost more money.

Andy 11.3x
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Old 03-31-2011, 12:17 PM   #74
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Apples and Axles

After reading post #1 of this thread, it could be assumed that your comparison shopping was for very similar (and possibly exactly the same Axis) axles. In fact you started by saying, "Here is what I was quoted from four different axle suppliers for two #3500 torsion axles complete with 10" brakes;"

So, after reading and folloiwng this thread from the beginning, I now find that there seem to be some obvious differences and maybe there are some others as well.

The Axis axles you purchased have 10" brakes, were not direct bolt in and had an issue with the shock mount which may have been welded on incorrectly.

The quote from Inland RV for Axis axles included 12" brakes, shock mounts and were to be direct bolt in. The basic unit price difference was $320 per axle compared to the ones you purchased.

I can understand a difference in the price because of the 12" brakes but I'm wondering if there are other differences in the axles. And I think it would be of great value to the forum members to know if there are differences.

Are the Axis axles sold by Colin Hyde manufactured to the Henschen specifications? Or are they standard Axis torsion trailer axles with design modifications so they will mount on an Airstream?

Are the Axis axles sold by Inland RV manufactured to the Henschen specifications and if so do they differ substantially from the standard Axis torsion trailer axles? Or are they standard Axis axles built to Inland's specs so they will be direct bolt in.

Are we really comparing apples and apples?
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:51 PM   #75
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Another thing to note in this comparison, this is for an early 70's trailer.

It is my understanding that for pre-69 (I believe is the date cut off) even a Henschen axle had some issue with the shock mount and hole drilling. Meaning they are not an exact bolt in unit. However I believe they were as close as one could get. And know that a Henschen manufactured axle is no longer available because Henschen the original axle vendor owned by Airstream is not doing business anymore.

So older trailers will have some modifications to the new axle needed no matter who builds the axle. May be the single biggest difference is the brake drum size of 10" versus 12". If braking were truely an issue one should consider disc brakes. While more expensive, the design is far superior to drum brakes. And a properly maintained drum brake is totally acceptable. Annual inspections of lining material, magnet material and electrical hook up when doing a wheel bearing grease repack.

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Old 03-31-2011, 04:32 PM   #76
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Thanks for you participation in this discussion Lew. My thoughts on your questions are in blue below.

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Originally Posted by driftless View Post
After reading post #1 of this thread, it could be assumed that your comparison shopping was for very similar (and possibly exactly the same Axis) axles. In fact you started by saying, "Here is what I was quoted from four different axle suppliers for two #3500 torsion axles complete with 10" brakes;"

So, after reading and folloiwng this thread from the beginning, I now find that there seem to be some obvious differences and maybe there are some others as well.

The Axis axles you purchased have 10" brakes, were not direct bolt in and had an issue with the shock mount which may have been welded on incorrectly.

They are directly bolted in now. All I had to do was drill eight holes.
I believe the issue with the shock mounting is BECAUSE the old axle had 12" brakes and the new has 10" brakes. The tube distance from the mounting bracket to the trailing arm is different on the new axles. This, of course puts the shock mount on the new axle farther outboard from the shock mounting stud welded to the frame. I'll adapt and overcome. I'm not sweating the shocks. They are not necessary on a rubber torsion axle. Even on an Airstream. Call and ask Dexter, Axis or Al-Ko Kober. Their engineers will tell you the same thing.

The quote from Inland RV for Axis axles included 12" brakes, shock mounts and were to be direct bolt in. The basic unit price difference was $320 per axle compared to the ones you purchased.

I never asked for 12" brakes from anyone. I asked for 10" brakes. If Inland quoted me a price for 12" brakes that was his option to do so and he priced himself out of a sale. The difference in 10" and 12" brakes is no where near $320 per axle. Maybe around $100. Torsion axle manufactures spec 10" brakes on #3500 axles. If you want 12" brakes you have to order the #4,000 axle that comes standard with 12" brakes and ask for the axle to be "down rated" to #3,500. If I wanted to upgrade my brakes I would have asked for disc brakes. I cut and pasted directly from his quote.

I can understand a difference in the price because of the 12" brakes but I'm wondering if there are other differences in the axles. And I think it would be of great value to the forum members to know if there are differences.

Are the Axis axles sold by Colin Hyde manufactured to the Henschen specifications? Or are they standard Axis torsion trailer axles with design modifications so they will mount on an Airstream?

I'll let Colin answer this question.
Actually he just answered it on The VAP.

Are the Axis axles sold by Inland RV manufactured to the Henschen specifications and if so do they differ substantially from the standard Axis torsion trailer axles? Or are they standard Axis axles built to Inland's specs so they will be direct bolt in.

I've asked this question before. I could never get what I thought was a straight answer. I know that there is some hokie kinda deals.

Are we really comparing apples and apples?
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:52 PM   #77
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Rivet Anyone want to see more pictures?

Today I was listening to the greatest podcast ever, The VAP, while installing the second axle. If you don't listen to the VAP, you should if you want to learn some good stuff. I was finished installing the second axle before the podcast was over. That is around 1:05. Not bad. No broken drill bits. No problems. I still have to obtain the correct mount stud for the upper shock attachment to the shock. I called Colin Hyde and asked for his advice on how to attach the shock to the axle properly. He took the time to answer all my questions with the greatest professionalism I've encountered in a very long time. Thanks Colin.

I know some of you are very apprehensive about installing axles and having to drill new holes. It is not a big deal. I slid the axle under the trailer and put it on two jack stands on either end. I then used a bottle jack and a floor jack to jack the axle into its proper position. On my trailer, at least, the axle tube fits very snugly into the slot in the axle mounting plate. There is no room for any fore/aft movement of the axle. I then drilled the four holes and installed the four new bolts and nuts that were supplied with the axle, torqued them down to German spec (Gutentight) and took a break of a day or so then did the same with the second axle this morning. Before I drilled the holes for the second axle, I made sure the distance between the axle centers was the same on both curbside and streetside. It was right on the money. 33 1/8" I'm sure that some people may be a little timid to do this on their own because of all the things you read about tire wear, safety and ease of installation. You can do this. It's not the space shuttle. If anyone close to me ever needs help with this, just ask. I'll be there to help you. It is easy. Now for some pictures.

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I won't have the shock mounting studs in my hands until next Tuesday, so until then, enjoy the weekend!
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:05 PM   #78
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Thanks to you and Wasagachris for the link to VAC.com. The information on the axles was interesting.

Also thanks for posting the pics and the encouragement. I have no doubt I can handle the installation but I have a very strong adversion to drilling holes in steel without a drill press. Maybe it's because I'm becoming such an OF that I want everything to be easy....

Anyway, nice job. Looks very good.

Finally, like you, I'm always learning.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:59 PM   #79
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I won't have the shock mounting studs in my hands until next Tuesday, so until then, enjoy the weekend!
You may be able to use this, if you are impatient:

Advance Auto Parts: Shock Bolt Kit Universal 1/2-20 - Qty. 1 by Dorman - OE Solutions - Part 31001

I've used these in the past when I've wrung off shock bolts on Airstream axles.
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #80
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Thanks for the link Terry. I appreciate you helpful advice. I was in the auto parts store today looking for such an item. Unfortunately, there wasn't any intelligent life form in the store I chose.

I have my little plan to fix the shock mounting. It involves doing what Colin told me to do a while ago. Sometimes when you change your plan it isn't in the best way.
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:21 PM   #81
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i'm going with top on this one. it ain't rocket surgery. i was a little apprehensive about changing out my axle too, but talking with colin on the phone helped alot. i ordered my axle from him, it came, and i put it on, pretty much that simple. yeah you have to drill a few holes, it's not that big of a deal. the hardest part for me was wrasslin' the axles around and breaking loose the old nuts and bolts but that's where my special impact wrench came in.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:22 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
With your serial number information, that told us your Airstream had 12" brakes when manufactured.

However, ten inch brakes are cheaper than twelve inch brakes.

Andy
Mr Top, if you didn't want the parts specified by your serial number, maybe you should specify that you were specifying outside of the trailer manufacturer's specification.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:58 AM   #83
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Specifications

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Mr Top, if you didn't want the parts specified by your serial number, maybe you should specify that you were specifying outside of the trailer manufacturer's specification.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:06 AM   #84
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<SNIP> breaking loose the old nuts and bolts but that's where my special impact wrench came in.
Hey, I have that model impact wrench, I think mine is a left foot model....
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