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Old 02-15-2008, 11:24 AM   #43
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Will Dexter allow rewelding of the brackets by the dealer so it is still warrantied or will this destroy the rubber torsion inside the tube?
I'm thinking a slow tack weld process with a lot of time for the metal to cool down..... Just a thought.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
Interesting note on the differences on the build practices from '64 to '78. Fred mentions that the High Profile (HP) actually raised his body height by an inch. On the '78, using the Dexter HP mount and the Dexter supplied mounting holes, the top of the Dexter HP mount flange just nested onto the bottom of the Airstream main beam top flange, so the HP mount made no difference on my body height. There was a 1" gap between the top of the old Henschen Low Profile mount and the bottom of the AS main beam top flange when the unit came from the factory.
Hi Dennis:

Yup, my 1964 Globe Trotter's original Henschen DuraTorque axle had the Low Profile mounting bracket that was barely higher than the thickness of its top surface, and the bottom of frame rail sat right on it. So I gained an extra inch in body height by specifying the High Profile bracket, the top of which also rests on the bottom of the frame rail.

That slightly higher stepup into the trailer will keep me limber and fit in my advancing years. And Oldtimer's Disease will cause my trailer to become my everyday Stairmaster as I keep forgetting things left inside it. Am I all planned out, or what?
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:09 PM   #45
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Starting Angle and Height Difference for Those Who Have Not (yet) Been There

For those of you who may be contemplating an axle change out I am referring to the Dexter Axle Torflex catalogue here -

http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/...-05_80_res.pdf

Pages 7 and 8.

I refer to Dexter information here since HiHo's is documentating HIS axle installation.

From the graph on page 7, refering to a high mount bracket, the difference between a loaded 22.5 degree starting angle height (2.52") and a loaded 45 degree starting angle height (4.81") is (4.81") - (2.52") = 2.29".

So, with my 45 degree start angle, my trailer will sit about 2.3 inches higher than HiHo's 22.5 degree start angle, given we both use the "original" mounting holes and do not adjust the axle bracket holes. The increase in ride height has worked for me, all is well within the adjustment capabilities of my Reese Dual cam, and, so far, the axles seem to give an acceptable ride in the interior - have not noticed anything falling out of place while on the road.

Now, here's the kicker about "start angle".

If you notice on page 33 (pic 1 below) the "start angle" is the angle between the extended trailing arm and the TOP of the MOUNTING FLANGE!!! - NOT the angle between the extended trailing arm and the CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TORQUE SHAFT!!!

This means that the ACTUAL "trailing arm angle" is significantly LESS than the angles that Dexter uses in their publications.

I know that this is a bit difficult to follow, but to those of you interested, it is worth looking into. On the flip side, I do not know which angle Henschen uses in their descriptions (trailing arm top of mount vs. trailing arm center line of torque shaft).

It would seem to me that the trailing arm center line of torque shaft would be the more important consideration, since that is the angle that you really must compare the difference in ride degradation between the 45 and 22.5 (or other) start angles.

Double Click each pic to enlarge.

These are reproductions from "Dexter" publications - I take sole responsibility for copy infringements if any.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:27 PM   #46
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Thanks Dennis for posting the details on the angles. If I find myself with no other options, I have a scheme to use these axles in conjunction with a 2x2 thick wall sq tube that would raise me up 2". It looks like our ride height would then be the same. The lower left diagram also shows the challenge of Crispy's suggestion. The flange wraps completely around the tube so the only way to relocate it is to grind all the welds loose and slide it to the new location. Some of the welds are very difficult to access with an angle grinder.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:18 PM   #47
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Hiho,
If you cannot get to the welds with a grinder then try a carbide tipped bit on the end of an die grinder. Those carbide tipped bits can do wonders! They are also useful in elongating the holes in the Dexter brackets.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:48 PM   #48
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Quote:
Now, here's the kicker about "start angle".

If you notice on page 33 (pic 1 below) the "start angle" is the angle between the extended trailing arm and the TOP of the MOUNTING FLANGE!!! - NOT the angle between the extended trailing arm and the CENTER LINE OF THE MAIN TORQUE SHAFT!!!

This means that the ACTUAL "trailing arm angle" is significantly LESS than the angles that Dexter uses in their publications.
Dennis, The 22.5 angle is the same if referenced from the top of mounting flange or centerline of main torque shaft...the two "lines" are parallel. Are you saying that a 45 degree angle is acceptable? Maybe I'm not following your argument? I'm looking at replacing my axles and enjoying this thread.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:58 PM   #49
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My bad - stupid does as stupid is

Quote:
Originally Posted by binkers
Dennis, The 22.5 angle is the same if referenced from the top of mounting flange or centerline of main torque shaft...the two "lines" are parallel......
Binkers - you are quite correct - thank you for pointing out the error of my ways - I say it's the Chemo that makes me say stupid stuff - - that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

It's a good thing I don't have to take any more High School Trig tests.

On your question on my 45 degree start angle - I recognize I have a harsher ride than a comparable 22.5 degree start - but I have found the ride to be acceptable. If I had to do it over again I would seriously consider a 35 degree start.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:21 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MH
...On your question on my 45 degree start angle - I recognize I have a harsher ride than a comparable 22.5 degree start - but I have found the ride to be acceptable. If I had to do it over again I would seriously consider a 35 degree start.
Out of curiosity, how much do they deflect from the 45 degree angle when the trailer is on level ground? I am guessing they will end up at 30-35 degrees.

FYI Shock brackets - Dexters drawing shows how they are supposed to place the bracket for welding but it's dimensioned so the 22.5 degree is part of the setup. Thus their hesistancy at doing a 35 degree axle with shock mounts.
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:18 PM   #51
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Sorry to hear about your problems. Mine spec'ed out the same as Pizza's and I went to the TruckPro and sat there with them while they ordered. I was kinda picky about what was needed and told the guy more than once the specs. The "ghost" bracket was NOWHERE on any Decter sheet. Mine installed very tight but was perfect. Also a "High" braket would do no good the axle it doesn't ride on the frame but is bolted in. Maybe it is just a taller bracket with the bolt holes higher? My AS sits soo much higher now and is level with my truck I don't have to use a drop hitch. So going any higher than the 22.5 would have been overkill. My truck is a 07 Tundra (if you haven't figured that out yet!). It sits A LOT higher than the PO 02 Chevy. Hope it works out good for you! Keep us posted...
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TN-TUNDRA
... My AS sits soo much higher now ...
TN,
Wasn't yours the one that had the Gansta Low ride look prior to the swap ?

BTW, mine spec'd almost exactly the same as yours also.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:07 PM   #53
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Quote:
Thus their hesistancy at doing a 35 degree axle with shock mounts... -HiHoAgRV
Quote:
Also a "High" braket would do no good... -TN-TUNDRA
So, if one intends to use shocks with new Dexter axles, it would be appropriate to order 22.5 down, not special order 35's? Also, are the high-profile (HP) and low-profile (LP) options simply a choice to elevate or not-elevate the trailer from the axle? And, does choosing HP or LP have any influence as to whether or not the shocks will fit? Thanks.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:16 PM   #54
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Great questions about the shocks, Binkers. Vern, are you using shocks? I think I read earlier that you were leaning in the direction of no shocks. Is that right?

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Old 02-15-2008, 07:38 PM   #55
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Can someone post a pic of the Dexter mounts? I'm not sure I understand when PC and GP state that one doesn't need the mounts. Isn't this what bolts to the side plates? OR is there a mount already there (as above in the Dexter drawing) and the "side mount" goes over the existing mount? If so, why is the side mount extra metal even offered?

confused...
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:44 PM   #56
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Jim,
I ordered High brackets 'cause it matches the OEM that's currently on the trailer, so no change there. I also ordered shock brackets. I intend to test the ride quality with the current (worn out?) axles and old shocks then with the new axle w/o shocks. I will most likely install the old shocks to see the difference, if any, they make. I'll make a judgement call on springing for new shocks (or solicit for some new test samples )
Since I currently have nothing to install , I'll start the data generation tomorrow on the old setup.
Binkers,
The brackets would have a minor effect if your trailer uses a low bracket and you select a high. I suspect the shocks would still reach.
The 22.5 angle is the only one that Dexter will weld mounts on. If you choose any other angle you will need to recycle your old brackets and weld them on as you see fit.
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