Epiphany Gets new Axles

[GreatPumpkin]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

...
So at this point I want: (Here is the cheat sheet info…)

Axle Capacity: #11 axle derated to 3600 lbs. (stock is 3500 lbs, I wanted extra capacity, the #11’s are bigger that the stock, and come with the other options I wanted below)

79 7/8” Hub Face Dimension

61 3/8” Outside Bracket spacing

Bracket Orientation: Reverse, High Profile Side Mount, “HP-Rev (O)”

12” electric brakes. The stock ones work fine, no reason to change.

Hub & Drum Size: 12” 6X 5.5 with ½”-20 studs

Nev-R-lube hubs

35 degree down angle (per some Forum discussions this sounds good, but not really mandatory. SEE BELOW WHERE THIS ENDED UP!)

And for the stuff you WON’T get off of the Dexter website:
Shock Option E-1492
…

I wish I saw your post earlier, the bracket is extra and redundant, creating it's own set of "opportunities" when installing. See post #57 of http://www.airforums.com/forums/f437...nts-34646.html
and post #136 on of http://www.airforums.com/forums/f157...-22741-10.html

If you found out about the double secret Shock Option, I strongly suspect you have had some help from a very helpful forums member who also provided me with a lot of good advice and help.

[PizzaChop]

This is kind of a stupid question, but if you ordered it with the side mount hangers (which are unneccessary), are they still on the axle? And if so, is it just a matter of removing the side mount hangers to have your 61 - 3/8".

What does the white sticker spec from the factory say?

[GreatPumpkin]

Originally Posted by PizzaChop

This is kind of a stupid question, but if you ordered it with the side mount hangers (which are unneccessary), #1 are they still on the axle? And if so, #2 is it just a matter of removing the side mount hangers to have your 61 - 3/8".

What does the white sticker spec from the factory say?

#1 Yes.
#2 No. I had to leave them on. The 61 - 3/8" included the extra bracket so removing them would have left an extra 1/2" (1/4" on each side)

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by PizzaChop

This is kind of a stupid question, but if you ordered it with the side mount hangers (which are unneccessary), are they still on the axle? And if so, is it just a matter of removing the side mount hangers to have your 61 - 3/8".

What does the white sticker spec from the factory say?

After reviewing your posts (and every other axle post ) I tried to minimize the fluf but ended up with the extra brackets anyway. I summize that the reverse option INCLUDES them no matter what (they may end up being used in my case...)
Yup, the first thing I noticed when I pulled the Pick Sheet was OB=61.75... WAIT, THATS NOT RIGHT! The welded brackets are in fact at 61.75, not the 61.375 that I need.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin

...If you found out about the double secret Shock Option, I strongly suspect you have had some help from a very helpful forums member who also provided me with a lot of good advice and help.

We all seem to have our sources.... , and they are all the same

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin

#1 Yes.
#2 No. I had to leave them on. The 61 - 3/8" included the extra bracket so removing them would have left an extra 1/2" (1/4" on each side)

Not true in my case. The welded ones match the spec sheet, 61.75
Adding in the bolted brackets gets me to just over 62"

[PizzaChop]

Pumpkin,

But I'm wondering if this is Vern's problem. My axles were produced exactly as spec'd at 61-3/8". I can't remember if the hangers were on or not (I think they were). The actual OB measurement on mine were about 61-3/4" until I removed the side mount hangers.

But the white tag on the axle will tell the truth (rating, OB, Hubface)

See below

[PizzaChop]

Not true in my case. The welded ones match the spec sheet, 61.75
Adding in the bolted brackets gets me to just over 62":angry:

Okay...maybe not..

[GreatPumpkin]

Originally Posted by PizzaChop

Pumpkin,

But I'm wondering if this is Vern's problem. My axles were produced exactly as spec'd at 61-3/8". I can't remember if the hangers were on or not (I think they were). The actual OB measurement on mine were about 61-3/4" until I removed the side mount hangers.

But the white tag on the axle will tell the truth (rating, OB, Hubface)

See below

Oops! I thought your first question was directed to me, but I see you were actually asking HiHo. Looking back at my thread, my measurements were only 57 - 7/8" OB. On mine that included the extra side mount bracket. Removing it would have meant an extra 1/2" of play side to side. What I should have done at that point was to get two pieces of 1/4" flat steel cut to fit and removed the extra bracket. That would have allowed the holes to line up better. The extra bracket on mine caused it to lower the axles an extra 1/4" forcing me to ream out the holes on the trailer to get it to line up.

[GreatPumpkin]

I don't have access to my axle tags right now. The AS is in inaccessible storage until March. But here's exactly what was spec'd and ordered on mine:

2 ea. #10 Torflex
2,800 lb. rating
Brake Axle, hubs and drums
NeverLube option
6 x 5.5 pattern (as required by neverlube option)
10x 2 ¼ Standard Electric
22.5 deg. down start
Low Profile with Reverse mounting
74 - 7/8” Hubface
57 - 5/8” Outside of brackets
Shock Bracket option E-1501 (Part # 033-088-01, and Part # 033-088-02)

[HiHoAgRV]

Here is the thing that tipped me off that an error had been made. The OB=61.75 should say 61.375

I'm waiting to see what the factory and dealer come up with as a solution. At this point I'm the Forums Guinea Pig on what happens after a mistake is made in the ordering process.

I can install the axles but it will require some pretty good modifications to my mounting plate. I looked last night and other than the extra work, I might end up with a better final product.

[Jim & Susan]

If I understand the problem, looks like maybe a good sized steel shim might fill the gap. Maybe?

Jim

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

If I understand the problem, looks like maybe a good sized steel shim might fill the gap. Maybe?

Jim

Unfortunately, the axle mounts are wider than the gap it has to fit into...
Now if the shim you discuss looks just like a great big sledge hammer..

[PizzaChop]

Vern,

The dealer should have a signed (your signature) copy of the order form (with all specs) which was faxed to the factory.

He should have required your signature (or initials) on the specs, as this was a special order.

(You should have a copy as well.)

While it is possible that the mistake was made in Indiana, I would tend to doubt it.

Best of luck in resolving this.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by PizzaChop

Vern,

The dealer should have a signed (your signature) copy of the order form (with all specs) which was faxed to the factory.

He should have required your signature (or initials) on the specs, as this was a special order.

(You should have a copy as well.)

While it is possible that the mistake was made in Indiana, I would tend to doubt it.

Best of luck in resolving this.

The dealer and I have gone over what happened, but no explanation of HOW it happened. Rather than start a usless finger pointing contest, we both agree to see how the axles can be made useable. We are both hoping Dexter will allow me to ship them back for mods, he doesn't want to get stuck with them, I would prefer to have a set that match the dimension I need.

My advise to others - request to be copied on all of the paperwork that gets sent to Dexter. I didn't do that.

Once again, Dexter didn't mess this up. They delivered a product EXACTLY as requested.

Updates as they become available.

[47WeeWind]

Originally Posted by HiHoAgRV

Unfortunately, the axle mounts are wider than the gap it has to fit into...Now if the shim you discuss looks just like a great big sledge hammer..

Hi HiHoAgRv:

Then you need a "void shim" that provides some extra space when the existing space is too short.

I'm glad to see on the Picking Ticket you ordered the 22.5 degree down angle with the 1" (higher) high profile (HP) reversed mounting brackets. That's the combination I used on the new Dexter axle for my 1964 19' Globe Trotter instead ordering of a greater down angle. I thought keeping the original 22.5 degree down angle was advisable, and I really like the extra 1" of body height the HP bracket provides. With those two features the trailer now sits level with my 4X4 truck, and the extra 1" body height makes changing tires a more spacious experience.

Good luck with your axle swap. I'm here on the sidelines with my megaphone and pom-poms cheering you on. Pound 'em out, pound 'em out ... GOOOOO HiHo!!

[doorgunner]

Why not just cut the whole rig down the middle with a sawzall and gas axe, widen it as needed and rivet it back together?
morning coffee hitin in.

When you spec the dimensions does Dexter ask for decimals or fractions?
I noticed on pchops pic his one dimension was 61.38- did that start out as 61 3/8? maybe he got lucky as 3/8 is 0.375.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

Hi HiHoAgRv:

Then you need a "void shim" that provides some extra space when the existing space is too short.

I'm glad to see on the Pick Sheet you ordered the 22.5 degree down angle with the 1" (higher) high profile (HP) reversed mounting brackets. That's the combination I used on the new Dexter axle for my 1964 19' Globe Trotter instead ordering of a greater down angle. I thought keeping the original 22.5 degree down angle was advisable, and I really like the extra 1" of body height the HP bracket provides. With those two features the trailer now sits level with my 4X4 truck, and the extra 1" body height makes changing tires a more spacious experience.

Good luck with your axle swap. I'm here on the sidelines with my megaphone and pom-poms cheering you on. Pound 'em out, pound 'em out ... GOOOOO HiHo!!

Thanks for the cheering!
Void Shim... I suspect if it comes to that point I will create one with an oxy/acetylene 'Blue Wrench'
Here's my thought on the down angle-- for extra height, why not go to 90 degrees? Um, it might ride a little rough...
I prefer to keep the trailing arms level so any bumps have the maximum amount of arm travel. Some quick trig tells me that going to a 35 degree angle could increase the effective spring rate by 10%, turning a 3,500lb axle into a 3,850 lb'er

The adventure continues...

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

Why not just cut the whole rig down the middle with a sawzall and gas axe, widen it as needed and rivet it back together?
morning coffee hitin in.

When you spec the dimensions does Dexter ask for decimals or fractions?
I noticed on pchops pic his one dimension was 61.38- did that start out as 61 3/8? maybe he got lucky as 3/8 is 0.375.

HAAA . We don't need to buy no stinkin' wide body unit, lets make one!

I guess I could split the axle in the middle remove 3/8" and reweld. I could then install some 22" dia 6" offset rims to get my track width back

I need another cup 'o coffee

[87MH]

Originally Posted by 47WeeWind

...I'm glad to see on the Pick Sheet you ordered the 22.5 degree down angle with the 1" (higher) high profile (HP) reversed mounting brackets. That's the combination I used on the new Dexter axle for my 1964 19' Globe Trotter instead ordering of a greater down angle. I thought keeping the original 22.5 degree down angle was advisable, and I really like the extra 1" of body height the HP bracket provides...

Interesting note on the differences on the build practices from '64 to '78.

Fred mentions that the High Profile (HP) actually raised his body height by an inch. On the '78, using the Dexter HP mount and the Dexter supplied mounting holes, the top of the Dexter HP mount flange just nested onto the bottom of the Airstream main beam top flange, so the HP mount made no difference on my body height. There was a 1" gap between the top of the old Henschen Low Profile mount and the bottom of the AS main beam top flange when the unit came from the factory.

Just bringing out a potential build difference between Fred's '64 and the '78 Sovereign. On the '78 model, IF you order a HP mount flange, and IF you utilize the Dexter supplied mounting holes, NO increase of body height will occur. Now, having said that, there WAS enough room to actually drill additional mount holes higher up on the Dexter HP mount flange if someone would have wanted a higher mount...this would, in my opinion, have somewhat compromised the strength and rigidity of the installation.

In my instance, the 45 degree starting angle has been enough that I have not (so far, anyway) drug the rear end of the trailer on any concrete....I was dragging the rear end ALL of the time prior to the new axle installation.

Yes, I have increased the step up to the floor when parked and I have to set the ball on the Tow Vehicle higher to make a level pull, but, in my instance, I am happy with the increased belly pan to street clearance.

Reread Inland Andy's comments on only using a 35 degree starting angle in another thread. He makes a good arguement for using 35 degrees as a high end limit.

I really like 47WeeWind's suggestion of a void shim - wonder if you could pick one up at the local Homer Despot?