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Old 06-14-2012, 09:11 PM   #29
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I'm trying to make sense of Bob and Aaron's dispute. I think Aaron says the tongue weight or part of it can be subtracted from the GVWR. Bob says no. And DOT, he says, agrees with him.

If this is where you guys are, what authority says tongue weight, or part of it (that part shifted to the tow vehicle axles) can be subtracted from the GVWR? I think Bob may be right because I've never seen anything indicating you can subtract tongue wt., but maybe not.

Gene
No, tongue weight is included in the GVWr. But the entire GVW does not ride totally on the axles, so the axles are in spec for a 7300# GVW.

The axles are rated for 3500# each, total GVW is SUPPORTED on the axles AND the tongue. IF a trailer has a GVW of 7300# all 7300# IS NOT supported on the axles. In the case of the weight tickets that were shown the trailer EXCEEDS the GVW there, it is is being towed illegally. Yes a WDH will throw some weight back on the trailer axles.

If you use the basic math of a GVW of 7300# minus a 12% tongue weight of 876# you should have 6424# on the axles, well within the 3500# per axle rating. If you have more than 7300# on the axles you will have something on the tongue too, making the trailer overweight.

FWIW I weigh my trailer using race car scales I can get side to side weights as well as front to back and tongue.

When DMV weighs a vehicle they weigh the axles, trailer weight on the axles, the tongue weight typically will go against the tow vehicle axle weight.

FWIW I have had a truck ticketed where it was under the GCVWR, trailer axle weight was fine, but the weight on the rear axle of the truck was over the limit, due to excessive tongue weight on the trailer as well as a load in the truck bed. By shifting load the rig was made legal. No WDH in that particular case.

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Old 06-15-2012, 05:01 AM   #30
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Aaron you can play with the numbers on a computer screen all you want.
All I know, in the real world those axles are rong. A CCC of 676Lbs on a 25' trailer is rong.
Airstream realized that fact and finally made it rite.......nananananana.

PS....it was fun, Thanx.

Stream Safe

Bob
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:25 AM   #31
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I think Arron is correct on this issue. On the 3 Airstream trailers I have owned (changed axles on 2 of them) the axle rating was between 88% and 95% of the GVWR of the trailer.
I did a quick search and found a link to the trailer manufacturers website FAQ section.
About 3/4 of the way down the page there is a section on GVWR. Here is a quote:
GVW is the “Gross Vehicle Weight”, which is the actual weight of the vehicle. GVWR is the “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating”, and is the maximum allowable weight for the vehicle, which includes the weight of the trailer and the weight of the anticipated cargo. The axles must be able to support the GVWR, less the amount of weight carried by the tow vehicle (the “tongue weight” or the “hitch load”). This means that the GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) may be less than the GVWR. It is generally accepted that this difference may be as high as 15% of the GVWR for bumper pull trailers, and 25% for gooseneck and 5th wheel trailers, although a more conservative approach would have them equal (since you don’t know how the consumer will load the trailer).

Trailer Manufacturers Association - Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's) - Answered by Dick Klein
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:52 AM   #32
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Aaron you can play with the numbers on a computer screen all you want.
All I know, in the real world those axles are rong. A CCC of 676Lbs on a 25' trailer is rong.
Airstream realized that fact and finally made it rite.......nananananana.

PS....it was fun, Thanx.

Stream Safe

Bob
Hopefully they provided you with an updated GVW plate? DMV enforcement doesn't care what paperwork you have, they will be looking for the manufacturer's plate. However the odds of them looking at RV's in my state is rare unless and accident is involved.

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Old 06-15-2012, 05:38 PM   #33
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My axles are rated at 3,800 #, GVWR is 7,300.

So, mine can carry an anvil collection.

Gene
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:01 PM   #34
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Have you considered a trailer inspector? Many forums members will do it for just a "thank you". You might even find a professional shop to do it for free for Forums member...
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #35
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My axles are rated at 3,800 #, GVWR is 7,300.

So, mine can carry an anvil collection.

Gene
What a cool hobby, collecting anvils.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:27 PM   #36
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Saw a special on a guy on TV that collected old tanks. Yes, the armoured type complete with a cannon on the front, not the black or grey ones.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:37 PM   #37
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Saw a special on a guy on TV that collected old tanks. Yes, the armoured type complete with a cannon on the front, not the black or grey ones.
And they make great tow vehicles too.

Gene
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:40 PM   #38
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dont know about collecting anvils but try a utube search for shooting anvils- now thats some fun!
tim
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:38 PM   #39
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Well, my topic sure went places I hadn't expected (anvil collections!), But I've learned a lot too : )

I won't give the whole story as to why I believe the trailer in question has never been moved or slept in, but in this case I think the story is true. As for someone sneaking in and scooping it...why do you think I Photoshopped the phone numbers from the For Sale signs?

I appreciate the discussion of axles and GVW/GVWR, etc.

I also appreciate the pointer that the awning may be improperly deployed in the photo - neither/ I nor the owner really knew how to operate it - there was also 10 years of crud in the tubes so we decided to stay with what we had until the tubes and supports could be disassembled and lubed.

I'm building a list of things I want to repair/upgrade (my wife hates the upholstery!) and will make an offer based on the that list.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Chuck
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Old 06-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #40
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Well, my topic sure went places I hadn't expected (anvil collections!), But I've learned a lot too : )
Threads do wander.

When you become a rivet master (500 posts), they you get your commemorative anvil to start your collection. it is spray painted aluminum color. Everybody has a collection. If it gets a little heavy, start throwing out furniture and appliances.

Gene
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:21 PM   #41
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Lets leave the mistakes out of this but I did speak to him after the seminar and he promised me that yes the rubber would loose its elasticity, "if" it is subjected to overloading. He also said that it would outlast most people, even with constant use, if it was kept within its design limits. Kind of like bending a paperclip until it breaks? I was surprised as I said but he was adamant....
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The sad part Bruce was that "Engineer" didn't wander over to my trailer where I had assorted old Henschen torsion axles cut up, along with demonstrator new axles that were also cut up. You can see the difference plain as day. They were also on the table for people to look at during my seminar. I wonder what his answer would have been for all the people who have problems getting their wheels out from between the wheel well & the drum. I typically have to let the air out of the tires when I go to pick up an old trailer in order to fit usable tires for the trip back to my shop. I also carry a compressor to pump them up again after installation. That being said, the axles on the trailer being discussed in this thead may still be usable prividing they check the travel after lifting the trailer up.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:49 AM   #42
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This thread made me think about my CAT scale readings. I have a 2001 S/O 30 and love it. Mine was somewhat of a barn find too. I tried to scan my readings but it looks like this. With the trailer fully loaded, weight distribution installed each axle on the trailer came in at exactly 4000 lbs. I think they are 4300 lb axles so I know i dont have much payload. The visual is the key I think. Here is a picture of mine. The stabilizers are down but not lifting the trailer. You can see plenty of tire above the wheel and the axle angles seem correct when you look underneath. I also think about the axles when its sitting. I have two small 2x4's that I place under the axle plates to lift it about an inch to take some stress off those rubber rods. I dont know if it does anything for longevity but it makes me feel better.



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