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Old 11-16-2012, 08:07 AM   #29
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If you couldn't guess...there is a big dust bowl over Airstream replacement axles...



Why would anyone buy 12,000 lbs brakes for a 4,000lb trailer? anything over (12V*4000/12000=) 4 volts (33% of your controller resolution) on the brake controller will lock up... (ask a trucker what they have to do for an empty trailer to keep the tires from smokin' flat spots)
Why 12000 pound brakes?

Take your 4000 pound trailer.

Add to it the weight of your tow vehicle and it's payload to that.

Then have the tow vehicle brakes fail, as they can do.

Then please tell us how you would safely stop that rig with out of adjusment 10 inch brakes.

Keep in mind, when electric brakes are out of adjustment, their stopping power decreases.

So now we have at least 9000 pounds that out of adjustment 10 inch brakes are asked to stop.

NOT A CHANCE.

Andy
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:53 AM   #30
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Not entirely true. I bought Dexters from Carolina Wheel and Rim in Charleston, SC. I think they built the axles in Atlanta. The guy called them after I had placed the order, they said that they had the pattern for the Airstream shock mounts, and they welded them on for free when they built the axles.
Not sure when you got your axles, but I got my info from Redneck trailer( a Dexter axle dealer), Toscano RV( an airstream dealer), and Inland RV( an airstream dealer), as of beginning of 2012, Dexter no longer welds shock brackets on their axles. If you have current info, I would like to hear about it, would save me and others the cost of welding brackets from old to new axles.
Thank you,
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Not sure when you got your axles, but I got my info from Redneck trailer( a Dexter axle dealer), Toscano RV( an airstream dealer), and Inland RV( an airstream dealer), as of beginning of 2012, Dexter no longer welds shock brackets on their axles. If you have current info, I would like to hear about it, would save me and others the cost of welding brackets from old to new axles.
Thank you,

It was about a year ago.. The place (link) is home - Carolina Rim & Wheel in Charleston, SC.
You can probably call them and have them call the factory to see if they still have and/or will weld on the Airstream shock brackets.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #31
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My info is from last week, when Dexter was contacted by a dealer. Also, Dexter was recently sold, which may further change their way of doing business. Airstream after market axles may be a very small portion of their overall business. Anyone talk to an Axis dealer lately? Maybe they still include the brackets in manufacturing process??
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:19 AM   #32
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My axels, Axis, came thru Colin 2 wks ago. They came with shock mounts but I had to bore out for the axel mounting holes. Also the new axels were 3/8" wider then the old and the notch had to be ground larger with a small angle grinder.
Enlarging notch took obout 10 mins ea (2 axels). Boring the 8 mounting holes was about 10 mins ea.
Paul
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:25 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
Why 12000 pound brakes?

Take your 4000 pound trailer.

Add to it the weight of your tow vehicle and it's payload to that.

Then have the tow vehicle brakes fail, as they can do.

Then please tell us how you would safely stop that rig with out of adjusment 10 inch brakes.

Keep in mind, when electric brakes are out of adjustment, their stopping power decreases.

So now we have at least 9000 pounds that out of adjustment 10 inch brakes are asked to stop.

NOT A CHANCE.

Andy
I think you are missing some of the over riding facts. Using your logic, I could take a 200 lb utility trailer, install 40,200 lb brakes and hitch it to a 40,000 lb runaway semi tractor for a safe stop. It won't work like that. The little light weight trailer is only capable of effecting 200 lbs X the coefficient of tire friction as stopping force. Anything beyond that will result in tire lockup. Accepted ranges of Coefficients of Friction are in the range of .4 to .7 (Friction and Automobile Tires)

The truck will beable to generate 40,000X.7 = 28,000lbf of stopping power max

The little trailer...140 lbf

Like wise, a 4000 lb Airstream with 12,000 lb brakes behind a 8000 lb truck is limited by the weight of the Airstream and it's tire coefficient of friction.
12000 lb combo = 8,400 lbf of combined stopping power
8000 lb truck = 5,600 lbf
4000 lb Airstream = 2,800 lbf.

The poor little airstream is limited to 1/3 of the total stopping force no matter how much oversized the brakes are. Crank them up any more and the tires lock, stopping forces go downward and it gets even messier (I have a funny story about 2 race drivers, one lost his brakes, the other's steering wheel came off. at least the guy with no brakes could control what he hit!)

Over spec'ing the brakes in the extreme has the down side of limiting the controller adjustment range and arguably causing an unsafe condition where the trailer brakes lock up causing loss of control.

This truly is a case of the myth 'bigger is better' is not true

I do agree that once the owner fails to maintain any part of the system, vehicle or trailer, risks increase.

I've over taxed my brain...headache
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #34
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The odds of the TV's brakes failing are pretty slim. Unless the driver has abused them. For example; riding the brakes when going down hill.
Most modern TV's have disk brakes, at least in the front.
If the trailer brakes are working in riding the brakes situation above. The trailer brakes would have failed, due to overheating, long before the TV brakes.
The idea that somehow the trailer brakes are a backup brake system for the TV brake system is outrageous.
If you have to depend on the trailer brakes alone to stop, you are in trouble.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #35
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My axels, Axis, came thru Colin 2 wks ago. They came with shock mounts but I had to bore out for the axel mounting holes. Also the new axels were 3/8" wider then the old and the notch had to be ground larger with a small angle grinder.
Enlarging notch took obout 10 mins ea (2 axels). Boring the 8 mounting holes was about 10 mins ea.
Paul
Ok. So you are in Virginia. Who handles Axis orders on the west coast??
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:49 PM   #36
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all Axis Airstream axles are sold through Colin. He is the nation rep for Airstream axels.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:56 PM   #37
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Ok. So you are in Virginia. Who handles Axis orders on the west coast??
They are drop shipped from the factory to either your home (increased cost) to a commercial address (much cheaper) once you place your order with Colin.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #38
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Why would anyone buy 12,000 lbs brakes for a 4,000lb trailer? anything over (12V*4000/12000=) 4 volts (33% of your controller resolution) on the brake controller will lock up... (ask a trucker what they have to do for an empty trailer to keep the tires from smokin' flat spots)
Trailer electric brakes, are very sensitive to adjustment.

Brand new regular 12 inch brakes on brand new hub and drums, on a 31 foot Airstream, will not lock up until you get to at least 10 volts, at the brake magnet.

A lock up brake issue depends very much on the weight imposed on the wheel. Light weight, easy lock up, heavy weight, much more difficult to lock up.

Regular trailer electric brakes, are rarely, if ever, adjusted. Their stopping power or ability decreases as the lining wears.

That issue will hopefully in time, resolve itself, as "self adjusting" trailer electric brakes are now available. They cost a little more, but the out of adjustment issue, with the self adjusters, is history.

Safety,with the 12 inch electric brakes, is the "real' issue. Airstream installed them on smaller trailers, so that considerable stopping power was available, "if needed". Of course that is assuming, that the brakes were adjusted, as they should be, every 10,000 miles, at the time of a "major brake".

We all know that electric brakes fade, as they get hot. 10 inch brakes stopping a given load, will get much hotter than 12 inch brakes.

Some people say "no", because the lining surface is almost the same.

However, a 12 inch drum can dissipate heat much faster than a 10 inch drum. Therefore the fading issue would take much longer to show up on the 12's compared to the 10's.

Safety is something that all of us enjoy everyday, with may things. Safety in 12 inch brakes, obviously is much greater than with 10 inch brakes, for several reasons.

For those that disagree, use both with the same weight and see the difference, in the stopping distance and in the heat generated by the brake lining.

Airstream, has indeed mad mistakes, and that will continue since they are a huge innovator in RVing.

But most folks agree, Airstream ring the "SAFETY BELL" loud and clear.

Down sizing trailer brakes, considering "safety" is hang one foot way over the cliff.

If down sizing brakes is OK, the perhaps we should down size tires as well, since they are cheaper too. Instead of 6 or 8 ply, try on 4 ply. They are cheaper, but, most of us know and well understand, that doing that is begging for trouble, BIG TIME.

Practicing safety, when RVing,is a motto that everyone should practice. For that matter, simply practicing safety in our daily life's, quite well would prolong someones as well as their families life.

It may cost a little more, but the rewards are enormous.

Happy "T" day to everyone.

Andy
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:46 PM   #39
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It pays to have the larger brakes, especially when in this case it doesn't cost much more.
I used to build equipment trailers and I would put two 8,000# axles on a trailer that I only rated at 14,000#. The reason was that the 8,000# axles came with oil bearings and much wider brakes than the 7,000# axles. The price wasn't that much more, but the safety factor was well worth the cost. Besides, many folks would put more weight on the trailers and I made them to last. Even the frame would take over the 16,000# load, but I still rated them for less.
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