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05-26-2004, 09:28 AM
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#21
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Rivet Master
2005 22' International CCD
Buckhorn
, Ontario
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,449
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Hi All
Can anyone give us an idea about our axles? I know it is hard to tell from pictures but here is two.
One is the underside.
I read your article Andy and the small graphic you have showing negative, parallel to Positive is a great reference but I was not sure - is the round hole positioned to the wheel and the square hole to the shock? or vice-versa??
Second one showing how she sits - note the tongue is a bit high in the front just got back and have not leveled her but you can see where the frame sits to the wheel.
So do you think we need a new axle?
Things seem to get tossed around in the trailer - not as much as we thought but enough.
Can you just change the shocks? if the Axle is still good? How do you tell if the shocks are gone?
Any help would be very much appreciated.
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05-26-2004, 09:38 AM
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#22
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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It appears from your photo that the torsion arm is slightly upwards.
When the trailer is loaded for travel, the torsion arm will move further "upward."
When this happens, the internal travel of the torsion arms have reached their limit and the trailer will bottom out.
That might explain why your trailer had a "rough ride."
It also appears that your shocks are the originals. Replacing them certainly would be order.
Andy
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05-26-2004, 11:28 AM
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#23
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Rivet Master
2005 22' International CCD
Buckhorn
, Ontario
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,449
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Hi Andy;
I know it is hard to tell from the picture - as I could not get a straight on from the wheel side facing into the torsion arm - but it is more like your paralell diagram with the point where the shock is bolted in point below the paralell of the frame.
So as my question previous what is point up the shock end or wheel end of the torsion bar???
You mention the shocks can be changed - what do we get for the 69 GlobeTrotter single axle??? 21 foot. And are they fairly simple to change???
Thanks
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06-01-2004, 02:42 PM
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#24
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 84
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bad axle photo?
So look at the low ride of the Overlander on ebay today, #2480288709.
It is sitting a lot lower than my Trade Wind and my axles, as I have often whined, are SHOT!
Connie, learning, slowly slowly learning
__________________
We'd walk all day for a '66 Trade Wind!
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06-04-2004, 07:41 PM
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#25
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2 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
Nampa
, Idaho
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 32
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Bad Axles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Attached is a photo showing the the wheel well opening with respect to the vertical position of the tires and wheels.
Andy
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Would a low riding, bad axle possibly explain why it was so hard to get my wheels/tires on my 64 Overlander. It was a fight because there just was not enough clearance in any direction. Mine does not have the clearance Andy shows it the photo
Arlene
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06-04-2004, 08:19 PM
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#26
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418
2007 25' Safari FB SE
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1974 29' Ambassador
Yucca Valley
, California
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1963 26' Overlander
Posts: 4,804
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I found first hand evidence that torsion arm position is not the only sign of a bad axle. My Overlander has the torsion arms pointing down - but the rubber has gotten so hard that there is hardly any suspension evident. Of course now with the trailer gutted, it's hard to tell, but before I stripped it, the front or rear wheel woul dregularly come off the ground when going over speed bumbs, for example.
Ride height ok, but suspension still shot. New axles needed.
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06-04-2004, 08:49 PM
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#27
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
.
, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT6921
Hi Andy;
I know it is hard to tell from the picture - as I could not get a straight on from the wheel side facing into the torsion arm - but it is more like your paralell diagram with the point where the shock is bolted in point below the paralell of the frame.
So as my question previous what is point up the shock end or wheel end of the torsion bar???
You mention the shocks can be changed - what do we get for the 69 GlobeTrotter single axle??? 21 foot. And are they fairly simple to change???
Thanks
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The place the shock is bolted is not really where you look to see if the axles are too low.
If you look directly at the side of the trailer, without the tire on (impossible, but you get the idea)and the part that the brake backing plate bolts to is pointing up at all, the axle is bad. This can be seen by drawing an imaginary line level with the ground through the center of the part that pivots up and down, if the part with the backing plate has more of the backing plate above that line than below it, the axle is bad. Another way an axle can be bad, which is how mine was bad, is if the trailerleans to one side when evenly loaded, the axle must be replaced. My trailer went down the road looking like a hunchback, with one side noticeably higher than the other.
Terry
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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06-06-2004, 06:27 AM
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#28
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
Tampa Bay
, ^
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 762
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1st axle in place. It took all of 30 minutes to get it situated. I set the axle at the side of the trailer on a big piece of cardboard, then dragged it underneath and aligned it to the cut out in the frame. Put 2 cinder blocks right next to it, and lifted one side at a time on to the blocks to get them higher up in the air. Then I took my 2 scissor jacks from some old Honda's I have owned, and set them on top of the blocks and lifted the axle on top of the jacks. I attached the shocks for stability, then cranked the jacks and the axle moved right up in to place. Fit like a glove... although it should have fit like an axle.
The fun will be assembling the rest of the components.
__________________
Out in the woods, or in the city, It's all the same to me.
When I'm drivin' free, the world's my home....When I'm mobile.
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06-06-2004, 01:24 PM
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#29
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418
2007 25' Safari FB SE
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1974 29' Ambassador
Yucca Valley
, California
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1963 26' Overlander
Posts: 4,804
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It's definitely easier when using bare axles. I had complete axles, and the extra offset weight of the drums and brakes made the job a bit of a wobbler.
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06-28-2004, 08:54 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
Tampa Bay
, ^
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 762
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Question for the axle experts out there. Andy especially.
I have completed the change out of my trashed axles with new ones. I opted for the 3200 lb. capacity axles and added torsion arm angle. For a little background info, I have replaced the shocks, brakes, bearings, races, wheels, tires, and essentially have all new running gear. The installation was straight forward and amazingly simple, being that I did it without a set of second hands.
Now that I have set the trailer back down on level ground, the height of the wheel in regards to the wheel well, is not up where I anticipated it being, based on all of the other pictures I have seen of trailers with "good axles." While it is definitely way up from where it was, I am curious if the older trailers had a lower profile in general. From perusing thousands of photos of Airstreams, I have noticed that from 74' on, the trailers seemed to sit higher. Is this the case? Should my trailer sit higher than seen in the attached picture? Is something wrong?
Because I know this question will be asked. My trailer is currently stripped down to below factory weight. There is no refer, empty bw and water tanks, no couch, no heater, no toilet, no propane tanks, and little or no personal effects other than a few hand tools. The cabinetry I added in weighs less than the original materials taken out. I know, I weighed it.
Your thoughts and comments are welcomed!
First pic is before, second is after.
__________________
Out in the woods, or in the city, It's all the same to me.
When I'm drivin' free, the world's my home....When I'm mobile.
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06-28-2004, 09:30 AM
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#31
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Rivet Master
1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
1964 26' Overlander
1977 25' Tradewind
Eastern
, Washington
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneakinup
Question for the axle experts out there. Andy especially.
I have completed the change out of my trashed axles with new ones. I opted for the 3200 lb. capacity axles and added torsion arm angle. For a little background info, I have replaced the shocks, brakes, bearings, races, wheels, tires, and essentially have all new running gear. The installation was straight forward and amazingly simple, being that I did it without a set of second hands.
Now that I have set the trailer back down on level ground, the height of the wheel in regards to the wheel well, is not up where I anticipated it being, based on all of the other pictures I have seen of trailers with "good axles." While it is definitely way up from where it was, I am curious if the older trailers had a lower profile in general. From perusing thousands of photos of Airstreams, I have noticed that from 74' on, the trailers seemed to sit higher. Is this the case? Should my trailer sit higher than seen in the attached picture? Is something wrong?
Because I know this question will be asked. My trailer is currently stripped down to below factory weight. There is no refer, empty bw and water tanks, no couch, no heater, no toilet, no propane tanks, and little or no personal effects other than a few hand tools. The cabinetry I added in weighs less than the original materials taken out. I know, I weighed it.
First pic is before, second is after.
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I have to ask a few questions.
You used 3200# axles. What is the dry weight of the trailer as it sits?
What is the angle of the torsion arms right now?
If you do not exceed the combined axle capacity + equipment Load, and the torsion bar angle is positive and is not hitting the frame I can only guess you are OK.
When I replaced my axle I went with a heaver axle and a 25deg angle instead of the stock 22deg. angle. It did provide more clearance but not as much as the trailer could use and I would want.
It rides really nice now. My wife commented that things are not scattered all over after a short run.
Lets us know how it turns out.
__________________
Peace
Gary
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06-28-2004, 09:40 AM
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#32
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
Tampa Bay
, ^
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
What is the dry weight of the trailer as it sits?
What is the angle of the torsion arms right now?
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I am basing the weight of the trailer by the factory numbers, minus the standard equipment that it comes with as there being no chance of it currently being overloaded. 4510 is the listed weight for my trailer.
I have not checked the current angle, but will take a photo later today and post it.
I am confident that there is "nothing wrong" with the axles, just that I was anticipating a much higher stance, as per my initial conversation with Andy and having viewed pictures of other trailers of similar vintage post axle replacement.
__________________
Out in the woods, or in the city, It's all the same to me.
When I'm drivin' free, the world's my home....When I'm mobile.
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06-28-2004, 09:43 AM
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#33
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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sneakinup.
If your Barry, then the following info applies. You did not state your name, which forces us to guess who you are.
From 1969 and up the axle specs are the same.
Originally, the starting angle was 25 degrees. We prefer to have them start at 35 degrees, so that you gain more ground clearance.
The original 72 27 foot axles had a rating of 2800 pounds. Going to 3200 pounds, is an 15 percent increase, which is OK. If you went to a 3500 pound axle, that would be an 25 percent increase, which would not be recommended, unless more weight was added to the basic trailer, over and above the way Airstream built it.
The key for you is to see what the torsion arm position is at now.
From your photo, I would say your Airstream is exactly where it should be.
Attached is a photo of a 1969 29 foot, that has had the same changeout made as you have. Please note that the amount of the tire that can now be seen above the wheel, is about the same.
Andy
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06-28-2004, 09:49 AM
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#34
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Rivet Master
1977 31' Sovereign
Tampa Bay
, ^
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 762
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Thanks Andy. Yes, I am Barry.
Like I said, I was just curious. I am happy with the clearance I now have, but have seen so many variations... which is what spawned my questions.
I will check the angle and post my results. The big test will be how it rides.
Thanks again.
__________________
Out in the woods, or in the city, It's all the same to me.
When I'm drivin' free, the world's my home....When I'm mobile.
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06-28-2004, 09:52 AM
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#35
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418
2007 25' Safari FB SE
1958 22' Flying Cloud
1974 29' Ambassador
Yucca Valley
, California
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 1963 26' Overlander
Posts: 4,804
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Looks good to me.
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06-28-2004, 02:43 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Then mine looks okay too
I could check with the PO, but I think I know how old my axles are. Here's a shot from a few minutes ago. Except for countertops & soft goods (let's say 100 pounds) and anything attached to the tongue, its "as delivered":
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06-28-2004, 03:43 PM
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#37
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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At the risk of being insensitive I would not get under that trailer while its on cider blocks - lots of folks have gotten killed that way.
Anyway, what I did was go into a brand new trailer and jump around a bit in it to feel how new axles feel. Then jumped around in mine - BIG difference.
Ken
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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06-28-2004, 03:44 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,491
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ooooooooooooops those are not cider blocks - here I go again typing too fast, they are c i n d e r (think I got it ) blocks
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
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06-28-2004, 04:45 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville
, Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
At the risk of being insensitive I would not get under that trailer while its on cider blocks - lots of folks have gotten killed that way.
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Ken,
Thanks for your concern. However, they are concrete blocks with a weight distributing board on top.
While I have no desire to sway you to the dark side, "watch this" people have a tendancy to set their axles directly on top of a side, which cracks, and catastrophic failure results. But thanks for the post
Before this thread gets hijacked by Industrial Safety, what do you think about my axle situation?
Tom
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06-28-2004, 05:06 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Cinder Blocks
Using cinder blocks to support the weight of an Airstream, is an E-ticket ride to a casket.
Unfortunately, the people you could ask, are no longer with us.
Safety, Safety, can it "ever" be preached too much???
Andy
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