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Old 07-30-2007, 10:52 PM   #29
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Great Pumpkin,
When I got home from work tonight I measured the torsion arm length. This measurement is taken center to center - 6" on both the new and old axle.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:08 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by crispyboy
Great Pumpkin,
When I got home from work tonight I measured the torsion arm length. This measurement is taken center to center - 6" on both the new and old axle.
Thanks. I knew the Dexters were 6", but I didn't measure the old ones yet to see if there was a difference. (I should of done that when I had the wheel off getting the hub face to hub face measurement and the mounting bracket measurement.)
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:47 AM   #31
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Clearly, a portion of any bolts width is consumed by the treads, so we can expect the strength of the bolt to be affected by the thread type. If we assume the same tread type between the ½” and the 5/8” bolt, we know that the 5/8” bolt has a greater diameter than the ½”, and therefore has a greater loss in diameter (to the threads), but then again we are talking three bolts vs. two. I will ignore this negative difference for now. In fact, for ease of understanding, I am going to ignore the reduced strength loss of the bolt threads altogether until the conclusion.

According to http://www.engineersedge.com/hex_bolt_identification.htm a grade 8 bolt has a proof load of 120,000 PSI (Pounds per Square Inch).

So, to determine the strength of a bolt, we need to determine its area, in terms of inches, so we can relate it back to the 120,000 pounds. In mathematics, we have a simple formula to determine the area of a circle:

A = Area
R = the radius (half the diameter) of the circle
Pi = is an irrational number, such that when rounded to four decimals places = 3.1416
Thus:
A = Pi*R^2 = Pi*R*R

½” Bolt calculation:
R = half the diameter = ¼”, therefore:
A = 3.1416*.25*.25 = .19634954 of an inch,
so .19634954*120,000 PSI = 23,561.9449 pounds of proof load per bolt.
3 bolts = 70,686 pounds of proof load.

5/8” bolt calculation:
R = 5/16”
A= Pi*(.3125)^2 = .306796, so .306796*120,000 PSI = 36,815.5389 pounds per bolt
2 bolts = 73,631 pounds of proof load

So, if we don’t factor in the loss of strength to tread, and round to the nearest pound, the 3 ½” bolts are 96 % as strong as the two 5/8” bolts.

So, quite frankly guys, there is about 4% difference between the two bolt configurations. I do believe you will have a much bigger problem on your hands if you loose an axle having used three ½” bolts to secure your axle.

I do wish, since some had done this calculation, that they had published it here, because it adds to the quality of this site and is useful to all those using this thread for research.

Personally, I'm still undecided - I may just add a fourth 1/2" bolt.

Calvin
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:09 AM   #32
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Not an engineer by trade but am sort of a shade tree mechanic/engineer

I believe three bolts would be better because you are spreading out the load and sheer force over all three bolts - any more may be weaken the steel.

Steve
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:04 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
The Henschen axles at this point, are guaranteed for 10 years, and the brakes are guaranteed for two years. That program started January 1st, 2007.

No other torsion axle manufacturer offers those warranties.
Andy, is there an online written backup to this warranty? I'm not sure if I'm navigating all the links at the Henschen site -- and don't see anything at Inland's. Who is backing up this warranty -- Henschen or Inland?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-31-2007, 08:16 PM   #34
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Andy, is there an online written backup to this warranty? I'm not sure if I'm navigating all the links at the Henschen site -- and don't see anything at Inland's. Who is backing up this warranty -- Henschen or Inland?

Thanks for the help.
Per Andy, first 5 years is Factory from Henschen, the next 5 are from Inland. Beakes are from outside vendors, and so are only warranted for 2 years. I also have been shopping for axles, as Bertha is developing "that Monday Morning Lean" to the right. (I expect to find her drunkenly emulating the Andrea Doria one day)...
Hopefully he will get this info on his website soon, then we can all point to it and say "See?"
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:35 PM   #35
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Higher angle, shorter tire??

Quote:
Using the original starting angle of 22 1/2 degrees, at this point, is out dated.

Almost every tow vehicle today is heavy duty and high profile.

Accordingly, raising the starting ange to 35 degrees make more sense today than it did 30 or 40 years ago
Question I have is this, did they go to the 35 degree angle because of the use of shorter tires? Since I still like to use 7:00x15 bias plys taller/thinner, if I changed out the axle on my 1966 with a 35 degree axle with 7:00x15, using a 1968 Travelall to tow, I get more height than anyone would want. I can see using the 35 degree for the 225/75/15 radial, they are shorter/fatter. Is my mind correct here?
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Old 08-06-2007, 10:29 PM   #36
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Update

Quote:
Dexter:
Price about 1/2 of the Henschens (no recent verification noted in threads)
#10 axle
3200# Rating (or 3500#)?
Type "A" 5200 lb spindle
12" Drums
Reverse mounting bracket Standard or high profile?
22.5 Degree down angle
EZ Lube
Hub face to face measurement 75" (Verified this matches mine)
Mounting bracket to mounting bracket 58" (Verified this matches mine)
Dexter’s are on their way!

2 Complete Torflex Axles (Hubs and Drums included)
#10 Axle rated @ 2800 lbs
10” x 2 &#188; Standard Electric Brake drums
6 - 5.5" Lug Pattern
22.5 Degree down angle
Never Lube
Low Profile Side Mount Bracket (with reverse orientation)
Top shock bracket option (E_1501)

A couple observations:

The 12" brakes would have been nice, but depending on who you talk to they may or may not cost more. A forum member (who will remain anonymous unless they want outed) was EXTREMELY helpful, and could get me the 12" without additional cost. The Dexter dealer I ordered them from tacked on an additional $200 per axle to upgrade to a #11 spindle in order to get the 12" brakes. So why did I order from the dealer vs forum member? At the forum member’s helpful suggestion, if I ordered them from a larger dealer, there would be NO SHIPPING CHARGE! As the 10" are more than adequate, I stayed with the 10" and opted for no delivery charge. I will pick them up at the dealer in Spokane, WA.

I added the shock mount bracket option, but it may or may not work. It appears to be mounted midway on the torsion arm (E_1501 pdf - I'd attach it, but ran out of upload room) That might potentially interfere with my "bottoming out" bracket that is welded to the trailer. Worst case, I'll have to cut it off. Most agree that the shocks are unnecessary. If it works out great, if not a few bucks for that extra option wasted. I'll be the Guinea Pig for the forums.

Bottom Line:
If you don't want to hassle with measuring and then searching out the best prices/options. Get your VIN # and call Inland RV. That and $800 will get you a complete axle for your Airstream.

However if you are interested in quality and saving money... Do the research. Measure. Call. Email. Search out the answers. Read the forums. Seek out forum members advice. Make an informed decision. Place your order.

SAVE OVER 1/2 the price of Henschens!

Bottom Line $$$: My axles with all the options listed above are less than 1/2 the price of Henschen. I'm smiling all the way to the bank.

I will update again when I pick up the axles. The installation will be covered in my thread: My '64 Overlander Adventure
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:03 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
Dexter’s are on their way!

2 Complete Torflex Axles (Hubs and Drums included)
#10 Axle rated @ 2800 lbs
10” x 2 &#188; Standard Electric Brake drums
6 - 5.5" Lug Pattern
22.5 Degree down angle
Never Lube
Low Profile Side Mount Bracket (with reverse orientation)
Top shock bracket option (E_1501)

A couple observations:

Bottom Line:
If you don't want to hassle with measuring and then searching out the best prices/options. Get your VIN # and call Inland RV. That and $800 will get you a complete axle for your Airstream.

However if you are interested in quality and saving money... Do the research. Measure. Call. Email. Search out the answers. Read the forums. Seek out forum members advice. Make an informed decision. Place your order.

SAVE OVER 1/2 the price of Henschens!

Bottom Line $$$: My axles with all the options listed above are less than 1/2 the price of Henschen. I'm smiling all the way to the bank.

I will update again when I pick up the axles. The installation will be covered in my thread: My '64 Overlander Adventure

A 1964 Airstream trailer, had the following original axle specs.

Rating -- 2800 pounds.
Starting angle -- 22 1/2 degrees
Brakes -- 12 inch electric
Out bracket dimensions -- 57 7/8 inches
Spindle size # 42

We suggest the following as a replacement to those that call us.

Rating -- 3000 to 3200 pounds depending on the owners needs.
Staring angle -- 35 degrees
Brakes -- 12 inch electric
Out bracket dimensions 57 7/8 inches
Spindle size # 42

When Airstream torsion axles are replaced, it is always wise to increase the axle ratings 10 to 15 percent. On rare occasions the rating can be further increased, but a heavy pay load then becomes 100 percent mandatory.

Increasing the original starting angle is also wise since todays tow vehicles are much higher profile than 30 or 40 years ago. The increased starting angle also gives more ground clearance and makes the hitching hookup less of a problem, by typically using a shorter drop hitch bar.

A # 84 spindle has a rating of 1750 pounds each or 3500 pounds per axle. A tandem axle setup then provides 7000 total pounds of spindle rating.

A # 42 spindle has a rating of 2500 pounds each or 5000 pounds per axle. A tandem axle setup then provides 10,000 total pounds of spindle rating.

It is common knowledge that undersized or closely rated spindles have many fatigue failures, such as the Bambi and Caravel axles used from 1968 and older. We provide a replacement for one of those at least once every week.

A spindle rating must not only support the payload of the trailer, but must also be strong enough to take the impacts from the highways without fatiguing.

A #42 spindle offers 43 percent more protection and payload capacity than a # 84 spindle.

Ten inch electric brakes offer 3500 pounds of stopping power per single axle, and 7000 pounds per tandem axle setup.

Twelve inch electric brakes offer 6000 pounds of stopping power per single axle, or 12,000 pounds per tandem axle setup.

A twelve inch brake setup offers a little more than a 70 percent increase in stopping power, from a ten inch brake setup.

Dropping from twelve inch brakes to ten inch brakes, reduces the stopping power by over 40 percent.

Certainly, decreasing the stopping power of the brake system on any travel trailer, by choosing smaller brakes, is not a prudent choice.

Quality of the product is a subject far removed from the quality of the performance.

A personal chosen reduction in brake performance is in fact, not a prudent choice either.

Comparing costs are not significant unless the quality of the product and the quality of the performance are equal or nearly so.

Never Lube equipped axles, are an excellent reason to never check the condition of the electric brakes, every 10,000 miles. Again human nature does it's thing.

Braking power, is not a laughing matter. The trailer either has enough, or it doesn't. For those that have "been there and done that," dropping the brake ratings when changing axles, is not in their vocabulary.

Andy
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:01 PM   #38
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Andy - perhaps you missed this paragraph in post #5

Quote:
And so it is. Now returning to our regularly scheduled program. This thread was directed to those who will provide the answers to my questions. Yes, you obviously have the answers, but don't appear to be willing to divulge them, only taking the time to tell me where I'm wrong. If you would like to proide the answers to my original questions (or to any of my secondary questions) then feel free to reply. If not - thank you for your time and please stay out of my thread. I may end up going with Henschen, but for now I'm investigating other options. Then I will make an informed decision.
Are you so afraid of losing the monopoly that you must resort to negative posts to any and all axle threads? I count 6 negative tirades in this thread alone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
A 1964 Airstream trailer, had the following original axle specs.

Rating -- 2800 pounds.
A few posts back you stated 2400-2600 - deliberate misinformation, or bad memory?

Quote:
When Airstream torsion axles are replaced, it is always wise to increase the axle ratings 10 to 15 percent. On rare occasions the rating can be further increased, but a heavy pay load then becomes 100 percent mandatory.
After researching and determining a weight rating that would be satisfactory for my use I made an informed decision. 2800# was good enough for the original, it's quite adequate for my use today. I've reduced my payload vs adding to it.

Quote:
Increasing the original starting angle is also wise since todays tow vehicles are much higher profile than 30 or 40 years ago. The increased starting angle also gives more ground clearance and makes the hitching hookup less of a problem, by typically using a shorter drop hitch bar.
Again, you didn't even bother to read my prior posts. 22.5 degree (OEM) is more than sufficient for my needs.

Quote:
A # 84 spindle has a rating of 1750 pounds each or 3500 pounds per axle. A tandem axle setup then provides 7000 total pounds of spindle rating..SNIP..Ten inch electric brakes offer 3500 pounds of stopping power per single axle, and 7000 pounds per tandem axle setup.
For a trailer with an original dry weight of under 4000 lbs, 7000 lbs of spindle rating is more than adequate.

Quote:
Comparing costs are not significant unless the quality of the product and the quality of the performance are equal or nearly so.
Are you stating that Dexter is an inferior product? You're now contradicting your own logic. "Surely, hundreds of thousands of previous Airstream and Argosy trailers, can't be wrong" Surely you're not stating that Airstream is wrong for dropping Henschen and going with Dexter? We've already addressed quality in prior posts. Comparing costs is ABSOLUTELY significant when the competitors product is less than 1/2 the price of what you drop-ship!

Quote:
Never Lube equipped axles, are an excellent reason to never check the condition of the electric brakes, every 10,000 miles. Again human nature does it's thing.
The owner that won't check the condition of the electric brakes periodically, won't do it regardless of the Never Lube option or not.

Quote:
Braking power, is not a laughing matter. The trailer either has enough, or it doesn't. For those that have "been there and done that," dropping the brake ratings when changing axles, is not in their vocabulary.

Andy
The trailer has enough (and I've had enough of your negative attacks). Better go back and read some of the many axle threads. Others have gone with 10" brakes.

I have never stated Henschen was inferior or disparaged those who have gone with the OEM. You, however, seem to feel the need to attack any one who suggests going with anything other than what you provide. I'm trying to temper my response to keep the moderators from having to edit anything, but maybe they are needed here - you are out of line.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:22 PM   #39
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I read the last post differently

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
... I count 6 negative tirades in this thread alone...
While Andy does not necessarily have the same "writer's polish" as RLuhr, I perceived his last post as fact-laden and informative.

Tom
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:02 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomW
While Andy does not necessarily have the same "writer's polish" as RLuhr, I perceived his last post as fact-laden and informative.

Tom
Thanks Tom -

While that post is fact-laden, it would have been more useful to contribute at the beginning of this thread - (without the negative slants). It would have been well to post that information in the place of post #2 - laden with sarcasm and snipes.
It also restates "facts" that I have clearly noted do not apply to my application, such as upgraded weight rating and starting angle.
Add in the ignorant statement "Never Lube equipped axles, are an excellent reason to never check the condition of the electric brakes, every 10,000 miles." and the incorrect statement "For those that have been there and done that," dropping the brake ratings when changing axles, is not in their vocabulary".
Now compare to the other responses to this and other axle threads, and you see a clear campaign to attack and dissuade others from even talking about purchasing from someone else!
Therein lies the problem, not the facts. Was it from Dragnet? "Just the facts ma'am" or how about the old idiom "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"
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Old 08-07-2007, 02:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin
... it would have been more useful to ...
... It would have been well to post that information in the place of ...
... Add in the ignorant statement ...
... and you see a clear campaign to attack and dissuade others ...

... or how about the old idiom "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all"
Some old idioms never get old.

Tom
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Old 08-07-2007, 06:21 PM   #42
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A few posts back you stated 2400-2600 - deliberate misinformation, or bad memory?


I made it "very clear" by saying "without my books at home" etc.

Sorry you took my from memory statement as gospel.

I have no need to deliberately misinform, and from memory is not always perfect for most people.

Andy
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