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Old 02-21-2012, 06:23 PM   #1
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8-Lug

Howdy All!

I have been mulling an idea over and thought I'd broadcast it here.

First, let me say that I have a "Silver Sister" in that I am pulling a 1987 Avion 34X. That's a triple axle with a 5 ton gross weight.

OK, so like many of you, I have seen that it's getting harder and harder to find decent rated 15" tires. I currently have Maxxis UE-168 235/70-15's and they are doing AOK. But, I really like the idea that some of you have done by getting 16" wheels and putting BF Goodrich Commercial T/A's on.

Well, my truck uses 17" wheels. I will probably ring Dexter about this, but what I'm wondering is this: My Avion has the Adjust-a-Ryde suspension which is a Dexter axle cut in half and mounted on a pivot so that it works like the Ford "Twin I-Beam" suspension and I have six spring packs with six shocks and get six wheel fully independant suspension. My hubs are set up for the standard six lug.

Can I change the hubs out to 8-lug and then run a set of wheels and tires that are the same as my truck and be fully interchangable? I would see some value there in that (A) I can easily get tires that are of high quality such as Michelin, Goodrich, etc. and (B) My spare would work on both the truck or the trailer.

This is, of course, provided that the size would actually fit under the trailer, which I'm not sure it would. I need to pull a wheel and check. I run 265/75/17 (I think) on the Ram.

Besides, it'd look cool to get a set and a half of Dodge wheels with the Ram centercap emblem to put on the trailer that would match the truck.

Anyway, just a thought....
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:59 PM   #2
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with a big enough budget anything is possible.
I must admit that the idea of having a common tire( and spare) size has appeal!
check it out and keep us posted
tim
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:45 PM   #3
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I tried something similar with my Safari and Tundra.
The bolt pattern is the same but the Tundra rim was a different offset and the tire was much bigger than the Airstream tire and didn't fit in the wheel opening.
I may still look at putting Tundra wheels on the AS but they will not be interchangable due to the tire size difference.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:05 PM   #4
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Just put these on Jim, they are a high quality LT tire. They wont dry rot in 5yrs. They are a retreadable tire.
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/detail/ry215
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Just put these on Jim, they are a high quality LT tire. They wont dry rot in 5yrs. They are a retreadable tire.
RY215 Commercial Light Truck Tires | Yokohama Tire Corp.
These are what I ran. And I note that CAYO recommended this size for the earlier MOR/ryde suspension years.

The tires you are considering are a good choice. But the time/miles factor against cost is an expensive proposition.

I, too, considered this for my trailer, thinking that with [2] spares I'd have [10] tires the same. Even rotate them between truck and trailer. Maybe someone has done that? Concerned about different wear, though, as the exact same tire on truck and trailer can be rated differently by tire manufacturer.

I started a thread referencing a new discussion on WOODALLS a few minutes ago. A long thread, but all your "answers" are in that, IMO. (With six tires of low load rating, I think it a moot problem).

The RY-215 Yokohama would do the trick, I think. CENTRAMATICS and better than usual shock absorbers would be on my list (shockwarehouse for comparable KYB Gas-A-Just to replace the not-so-hot Monroes).

New wheels, sure, with a capability of 65 or 70-psi and comparable load rating (above tires, even when overinflated 10% past sidewall maximum; if I have understood what I am reading tonight). Rim width concerns.

You know, it might be worthwhile to do a loaded wheel-by-wheel weighing of the trailer. Side-to-side discrepancies, not just FF/RR as axle "averages" are important (even with Adjust-A-Ride).

As you're considering breaking new ground you have a fine subject for a long exploratory thread, here.

.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:53 AM   #6
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My Maxxis tires will be four years old this summer. I keep them covered when not camping and I park on wooden boards...they look new. I was just thinking of the future.

I'll give Dexter a ring and see what they think. They were closed last night when I posted this. It may be more trouble than its worth, but if they'd physically fit into the fender wells, I like the idea of just going with the same size as the truck. It's really easy to get good tires in 17"

The Yokohama looks like a good one. I just like the 3175lb capacity better than 2000....even if I have six of them. I like all the extra margin I can get. The Maxxis I run now are rated at 2335lbs max load.

UE-168(N) Bravo Series

The 17" ones, though, are nearly 3" taller and over an inch wider...probably won't fit Well, I'll play with it before I give up...
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:11 PM   #7
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You don't want to run tires what are way too stiff for your trailer or you will beat it to death. 235/75-R15 XL rated tires are more than adequate (2000+ lb/tire). I would run passenger rated tires not trailer tires. I am running BF Goodrich TA Longtrail tires. Michelin makes a good XL rated tire in that size as well. Tires do all of the high frequency bump absorption. The kind of stuff that leads to cracks and loose rivets. The more rubber between the rim and the road the better the ride. Too much air will make the ride very rigid. When I am not towing, I let air out of my tow vehicle tires because they are way too stiff when running empty.

Perry
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:32 PM   #8
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Hi Jim.

I'm going to steer clear of any discussion of which tires are best since we have plenty of that and I don't think it's useful.

The fact that I would encourage you to consider is that an 8 bolt rim would not provide any benefit to you other than possible mounted tire interchange with your tow vehicle. But there are so many other variables to consider:

- There is no "standard" 8 lug wheel because they are hub centered and the center hole size varies among the three major truck manufacturers.
- Truck manufacturers changing the bolt circle size. Chevrolet has changed it to a metric size for 2012, for example, and I believe Dodge changed to a different metric size some years ago.
- Backset (or offset) is also something to consider with most trailer axles requiring a zero offset tire. Maybe that's compatible with your truck but it's something to check at least.
- Finally the tire sizes would have to be compatible.

Another possibility to consider, if you're just trying to avoid carrying two spares, is to get an adapter/spacer made up:

Wheel Adapter 6550-8650V Wheel Adapters

That may help with the offset or make it worse depending on your truck.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #9
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OK, next step of the journey: I spoke with Dexter today and talked with one of their engineers. It is actually very easy to switch to 8-lug. At least in my case, I have a standard 5200lb axle (cut in half but that doesn't matter) and you simply remove the 6-lug hub assembly and slip the 8-lug assembly on its place. The bearings are slightly different, but you buy it as an assembly.

However.......(nothing is ever as easy as it sounds...and Jammer just touched on the same thing Dexter told me)...apparently the tapered roller bearings don't like a lot of offset with the wheels. So, depending upon what the offset is on my standard Dodge wheel, it may or may not work. And, if I can't use the same wheels that go on the truck, then, to me at least, the whole thing is a moot point and I'll just get a set of 16" 6-lug wheels like everybody else.

But, I am going to measure the offset on my wheels and go from there.

Jammer, I thought that 8-lug was a common pattern between all of them? I didn't realize they varied by maker like the smaller bolt patterns. I say that because I get Diesel Power magazine and there's all kind of wheel ads in there and I thought they all said they'd fit any 8-lug truck. They are lugcentric, rather than hubcentric, but I didn't think that would really matter. I had a set of lugcentric mags on my old Suburban that was a 6-lug and drove it coast to coast twice and thousands of other miles on those wheels and never had a problem. I didn't realize the bolt circle varied.

And I understand fully about the too stiff tire issue. I typically run 58-60psi in my load range D tires and it runs very smooth. Even at that reduced pressure, I should be somewhere around 12,000lbs load capacity on the tires I have currently. I just like lots of margin
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:36 PM   #10
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Even more....

OK, another update. Looks like the bolt circle of the Dexter axle and that of the Dodge wheel are the same. Now the backspacing becomes an issue. Dexter told me that if you're not at least neutral, then the backspacing should be such that the wheel is offset to the inside to keep the bearings happy.

The Mopar rim is 8.5" wide with a 5.75" backspacing. So, that means the center of the wheel is 1.5" off of center. Is this enough to worry about? I haven't called Dexter back about it yet, but thought I'd post it here.

Basically the Mopar rim sits 1.5" to the inside of the trailer on centerline. So the question is if this is too much offset for the bearings to be happy. I would think not, all things considered, but am not sure. Maybe this weekend I can pull a wheel off the truck and then jack up the trailer and see if it'd even fit. If not, then all bets are off. But if it does fit, then the backspacing becomes the issue.

Eastern Marine has the conversion kit for $162 per wheel. Unfortunately I have to multiply that by six Anyway, worth looking at....

until next time,
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:37 PM   #11
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Weigh 'em both, too. Old & new.

I was considering going with ALCOA wheels on truck & trailer.

Hummer H2 wheels can also be used.

Since we're spending your money: [12/ea] Bridgestone Duravis m500's as well.

Think we're pushing $6.5k by now . . . .



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Old 02-25-2012, 06:23 AM   #12
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Having a single spare for 10 wheels is an attractive option, for sure.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:01 PM   #13
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Weld wheel corp

Hey, just came across WELD WHEEL's new line of wheels:

Truck, Dually or Trailer Wheels To Match Your Racecar by Weld Racing - OneDirt

If I was replacing the [5] on the CTD and the [7] on a tridem TT I'm at just under $6,000 for wheels alone. Buuutttt for a "permanent" TT & TV it doesn't seem so bad.

In 17" with new tires all around (and rotated from TT to TV and back, maybe get [7] years out of them) and using BRIDGESTONE or MICHELIN in either Highway or Traction tread designs, the [12] tires are looking like another $3500.

So, just focus on how long it takes to shine [10] tires/wheels rather than on the $10,000 I just spent for tires/wheels. Whew!

Yeah, it ain't crazy . . . but it certainly is more than I ever thought about before on such items.

Whoops, almost forgot: BALANCE MASTER wheel balancers at $200/ea nails another $2k to the total.

I think I'm gonna start with upgraded shock absorbers first, MOR/ryde 4000 equalizers, second, and spring re-build, third. And then focus on a disc brake upgrade. Trailer ABS (Direclink).

Knock off the first $4-5k that way. Then the rest just rounds the whole thing off to about $16k.

I don't know whose money I'm spending, but it's fun. Guess I need the trailer first, huh?

.
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