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szimmerer · 02-24-2009, 06:20 AM

I have a 2008 25' Safari with the stock 11,000 BTU Duo-Therm Penguin A/C unit. After six months of use in hot and cold climates I have determined I do not like this unit for a variety of reasons. I am having reliability problems and IMO the 11K unit is grossly undersized, particularly for southern camping (I live in Mississippi). I also do not care for the performance of the strip heater. It must go!

I am considering upgrading to a 15K Heat Pump but I am confused as to which unit would be the best for my 25'. Choices are: Duo-Therm, Carrier and Coleman. Cold producing capability, hot/cold controllability, interior noise and reliability are my major concerns. I plan to have this camper for a long time so cost is important but not my major concern. Any ideas and experiences would be helpful.

Silvertwinkie · 02-24-2009, 06:33 AM

When I special ordered my 25' Safari back in October of 2003, only handful of the 25' or larger Classics had the 15k BTU A/C unit as an option. I requested the 15k unit for my 25' Safari. I did receive some suggestions from both folks here on this forum and from the factory (via the dealer) and from the dealer themselves as well not to go this route for a variety of reasons, none of which panned out.

My question back to them was that it was a Classic option, why can't it be installed in a Safari since internal size and construction was the same between a 25 Classic and a 25 Safari (they all start out the same way and get odds and ends added as it goes down the line and becomes a "Classic").

It cost me I believe about $450 to upgrade from the standard LS upgraded unit (13.5k) which was already an upgrade from the 11k unit that comes standard at the time of construction, which most likely won't be your cost doing a total swap out, but you most likely sell the 11k unit.

The 15k Penguin is a great unit. I have zero complaints. Dometic I believe owns and builds the Penguin. In direct sun with high outdoor ambient temps, the 15k unit can keep the inside cold enough to hang meat (ask folks who have been to a rally with me

). The newer models I've heard are even more reliable than my "legacy" model.

I would not hesitate to recommend considering the Penguin low profile 15k unit. Mine has a heat pump, not a strip with it and also has the comfort control system which controls both the A/C and the furnace for seamless service. Even without the Comfort Control System, I would still take a 15k unit every day of the the week and 2x on Sunday.

If you look closely at new models out there for the past several years, many now have the 15k unit (regardless of model) that are 25' or larger with plans to be in warm climate (which is pretty much everywhere these days during the summer months).

szimmerer · 02-24-2009, 06:51 AM

Thanks Silvertwinkie.

Yours is the kind of real world and unbiased input that will really help me with my decision.

Inland RV Center, In · 02-24-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szimmerer

I have a 2008 25' Safari with the stock 11,000 BTU Duo-Therm Penguin A/C unit. After six months of use in hot and cold climates I have determined I do not like this unit for a variety of reasons. I am having reliability problems and IMO the 11K unit is grossly undersized, particularly for southern camping (I live in Mississippi). I also do not care for the performance of the strip heater. It must go!

I am considering upgrading to a 15K Heat Pump but I am confused as to which unit would be the best for my 25'. Choices are: Duo-Therm, Carrier and Coleman. Cold producing capability, hot/cold controllability, interior noise and reliability are my major concerns. I plan to have this camper for a long time so cost is important but not my major concern. Any ideas and experiences would be helpful.

The new Carrier unit seem to be the biggest choice, perhaps because it has built in oscillating louvers, that really circulate the cool air in a superior way.

Andy

2toomany · 02-24-2009, 08:58 AM

szimmerer,

I replaced a older coleman with a Carrier 15.5 hp on a 23' safari. It has worked well for camping here in Ms and a couple of trips to Ft wilderness in florida. The heat pump is generally good to around 36 degrees while camping in the winters and the ac will keep around mid 70's on our july/aug camping trips at Yogi in brandon.

Chiquita · 02-28-2009, 06:49 AM

Do both of these units have the ability for me to hook my drain hose to them or does the water just run down the sides?

Melody Ranch · 02-28-2009, 07:37 AM

They will hook to the drain. By the way, what ever you have ....never accept the water draining down the side.

adonh · 02-28-2009, 09:41 AM

I think you will need to get a "pan" for the Penguin that has the hook-up to the interior drain line. Maybe others can provide more details on this and where to get it. The Carrier can be modified by installing a small brass fitting in the small pan at the bottom of the fan and then connecting a hose to the interior drain line. It works on the Carrier on my 1976 Sovereign. Here is a picture of the brass fitting looking up from inside with the cover off.

Don

adonh · 02-28-2009, 02:44 PM

One other thing to consider, I like my Carrier 15,000 BTU AC, it really does cool. But my one complaint is the 2 speed fan/blower. The 2 speeds are high and higher.Tthere is really no low speed when you just want to circulate cool air around without it blowing so hard. It is a little noisy as well since you really don't have a low speed. Other that that on hot days it will keep you cool.

Don

Chiquita · 03-01-2009, 08:55 AM

thanks Got it, maybe the Duo Therm has more speeds

juel · 03-01-2009, 11:05 AM

Have the Carrier 13.5 on my 24ft Argosy. It does a good job, but the noise level is very high. Those oscillating louvers were great for the one season they actually worked. I'm sure I could take it in to have it worked on but living in a small town that means a 65 mile round trip and taking off work to get it to the dealer who installed it. It works fine without this feature, so I never bothered to complain. The big old Armstrong on my 76 Airstream is sure a good unit and makes less noise with more speeds than the new Carrier. Too bad they don't make that unit any longer. Since the Airstream is parked down at the lake while we build our house, we have rigged two household units to vent into the front and rear access doors under the frig and under the back twin bed. They make for no noise inside the trailer and talk about hanging meat! The new frig was put up on a platform that allows the A/C to blow under it and a vent was installed in the front of the platform to allow cool air into the trailer. We love it, it didn't mean we had to destroy anything on the Airstream and they are taken out in the winter and stored.

Chiquita · 03-01-2009, 12:50 PM

Don't the drain pans come with the unit? Are the drain pans contoured for the curved roof top? I think I am going to go with the Duo-Therm Brisk Heat pump 15k. My head is aching going back and forth with this.....

**azflycaster** · 03-01-2009, 01:18 PM

This morning I ordered a 13.5 Low Profile with the heat strips option from Family RV in Florida. Total cost with shipping to Phoenix was just under $700. I was going to fix my original Armstrong, but found that the shroud is missing pieces and has some serious cracks as well. The new Carriers attach to the drain line in the trailer also. I start the install after the unit arrives next week, now where are all my friends...

ArtStream · 03-01-2009, 02:00 PM

Drain pans are ordered separately. During removal the old ones usually get damaged. When I ordered my Duotherm I also ordered a new drip pan. You will be amazed at just how thin the plastic is.

I remember Andy posting something about a brand that slung the water somewhere and so did not need a drip pan, Andy?

vswingfield · 03-01-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtStream

Drain pans are ordered separately. During removal the old ones usually get damaged. When I ordered my Duotherm I also ordered a new drip pan. You will be amazed at just how thin the plastic is.

I remember Andy posting something about a brand that slung the water somewhere and so did not need a drip pan, Andy?

Hi Michael,

That is the Carrier unit like I installed on my Excella. See http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...ead-40795.html.

I do get a little runoff on really humid days here in Little Rock, so I would also expect some in Mississippi. Overall, I am pleased.

2toomany · 03-01-2009, 03:25 PM

agreed, i get run off on my carrier when the ac or hp is in use. And it is noisier than my older armstrong, but still a good unit.

Chad

szimmerer · 03-04-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiquita

Don't the drain pans come with the unit? Are the drain pans contoured for the curved roof top? I think I am going to go with the Duo-Therm Brisk Heat pump 15k. My head is aching going back and forth with this.....

I have decided to upgrade my stock 11,000 btu Duo-Therm with a 13,5K Low Profile Duo-Therm Heat Pump. When the installer removed the old unit he found the drain pan was cracked in several places. The drain pan is "thin" plastic and can be easily cracked when tightening down the unit so be careful. The drain pans are purchased separately, they do not come with the unit.

I had considered going with the Carrier unit but I had several RV Techs and parts personnel warn me against the Carrier due to their poor parts and tech support. The parts guy said he has a tremendous problem getting any support from Carrier and many of his customers end up waiting for parts during the peak of the camping season. On the other hand, Duo-Therm has a large network of warranty/repair centers and parts distributors and "everybody" works on them. They also offer a 3 year warranty vice 2 for the Carrier.

Trust me, I was just as confused and frustrated as you trying to make a decision, but in the end I went with the advice of the folks who deal with this stuff everyday. Only time will tell!

Trackers · 04-08-2009, 02:20 PM

I had Camping World change out my original 1979 31ft Sov Int AC unit with a Penguin 13.5 BTU Heat Pump a month ago. A drain pan was ordered from an Airstream Dealer. The technician at CW told me the Penguin was the best he has ever seen as far as not needing much servicing etc.

The 15K Penguin HP model would not work in mine since at the present it will only work with a duct work system. The 13.5 K has a inside cover simular to the original.

Words of warning to everyone. The $88.95 AC installation charge is very misleading. They charge a lot extra ($297.00)just to remove your existing unit ( you will find this out when you pick up your unit) and extra for the wire to hook it up as well as extra charge for sealant/caulking and screws to fasten it down with. As far as I can tell everything looks ok. I have not used it yet.

Just make sure you get a firm estimate in writing for everything they will be doing before you leave your AS with them.

Inland RV Center, In · 04-08-2009, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackers

I had Camping World change out my original 1979 31ft Sov Int AC unit with a Penguin 13.5 BTU Heat Pump a month ago. A drain pan was ordered from an Airstream Dealer. The technician at CW told me the Penguin was the best he has ever seen as far as not needing much servicing etc.

The 15K Penguin HP model would not work in mine since at the present it will only work with a duct work system. The 13.5 K has a inside cover simular to the original.

Words of warning to everyone. The $88.95 AC installation charge is very misleading. They charge a lot extra ($297.00)just to remove your existing unit ( you will find this out when you pick up your unit) and extra for the wire to hook it up as well as extra charge for sealant/caulking and screws to fasten it down with. As far as I can tell everything looks ok. I have not used it yet.

Just make sure you get a firm estimate in writing for everything they will be doing before you leave your AS with them.

If your Airstream had a factory AC, then all the wiring is in place.

There is "NO" extra wire or wiring of any kind, any where, that needs to be added when installing a new AC, in place of the original.

This holds true from the 1964 models, to the present.

Andy

elolson · 04-08-2009, 07:25 PM

I also upgraded to the 15k Dometic Heat pump (from 13.5k) several years ago and have been very happy with it. The heat pump with the new controller works great. When the heat pump is no longer effective it automatically switches over to the furnace.