Has anyone investigated the specifications of the new Duo-Therm 15,000 BTU Penguin air conditioner? I've been corresponding with a person who is interested in replacing his failed 13,500 BTU Penguin. Apparently Airstream tech support is saying use the 13.5 unit but no reason was given. Supposedly the hatch opening size is the same and Duo-Therm tech support did not state that the pan size was different.
I know that the 15K unit is an available option on the larger A/S units so the only reasons I could see shying away from this unit are weight and or amperage draw. I encouraged the person to contact tech support again and ask them the reasons why he can use the bigger unit. We are dealing with a '91 trailer here so this isn't a vintage issue.
Jack
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Jack Canavera
STL Mo. AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.
'03 GMC Savana 2500
'08 Vespa GTS 250
You'll see, that the 15k ratings is not for the Penguin but, rather for the Brisk Air. Two different style units all together..
The highest rating for the Penguin is 13.5k, I suspect that's why they told you to stick with that capacity size.
ciao
No even though the Duo-Therm web site doesn't show it yet there truly is a 15,000 BTU Penguin available. It's an option on the larger 2003 A/S units.
If you go out and do a search on the web with the words "15,000 BTU Penguin" you will find matches on many RV builer sites. Teton trailers is one who is extensively using this product. I also found one discount seller marketing this unit for $695. But alas no specs regarding power and weight.
Jack
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Jack Canavera
STL Mo. AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.
'03 GMC Savana 2500
'08 Vespa GTS 250
Kewl...just wanted to save you the fustration of looking for something that, "appeared" not to exist..
Sounds like a keeper, I'll be watching to see what you come up with. My unit will, undoubtedly, need replacing at some point in the future. (it's 19 yrs old and, still going strong)
You said the drain pan is the same, that seems to say that, it's opening is a proper fit. Have you looked into the differences in weight of the two units?
A/S seem to have several answer for a question.
This past summer, while there for some work on my unit, I asked about putting in a 'skylight' in the hallway area and, the ans I got back was,'the channel in the overhead was too narrow'. Which seemed odd to me but..I cured the problem by having lights installed in the wardroom closet and, the pantries area. That actually was cheaper and, works better~!~ Saves many choice words. lol
Another one, which still eludes me to this day, was..I wanted to replace the old TV ant with a satellite dish..But, once again..they said,' the roof structure would, in the long run, break down from the constant up/down motion while traveling..So, I'm still 98% original...lol
ciao
I'm a while from A/C replacement myself but many of you who came from the Yahoo list may remember my woes on my second trip out with the brand new Safari on a 100 degree weekend in June 2001. My inside temps hit the middle to upper 80's in full sun. What was especially gauling was the fact that the fellow who bought my SOB which was the same size as my Airstream and which had a 13,500 BTU Brisk Air unit was parked next to me and was quite comfortable.
My local dealer couldn't find a problem, I took the trailer to Jackson Center where they looked for air intrusion (they realigned the door), I got the specs from Duo-Therm and we verified that the Penguin was operating within specs.
I finally wrote A/S and told them that in my opinion the unit was probably undersized. They told me that the unit I has was the largest available (in the Penguin model) and that it was the one used in the trailers from 27' to 34'. I asked, from a design level what was their expectation of temperature differential from inside to outside temps. (Most homes here in St. Louis are designed to hold temps 20 degrees below outside air.) The answer from Jackson Center was "we have no standards".
Bottom line as time has gone on I have picked up the vibes from a lot of folks that on most of the newer trailers, the 13,500 Penguin is marginal in very hot weather in full sun conditions. I wouldn't be surprised that the 15,000 BTU unit was welcomed by A/S. I personally don't know how a 34' trailer can be cooled adequately by a 13,500 unit. As a matter of fact I have seen a few 34' trailers with two units on the roof.
I know if I ever have to replace my Penguin it will be with the 15,000 BTU unit. At this point we do consider climate in our travel plans since the current unit will obviously not do the job in very hot full sun conditions.
Jack
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Jack Canavera
STL Mo. AIR #56
'04 Classic 30' S.O.
'03 GMC Savana 2500
'08 Vespa GTS 250
That is the same rating that I have in my 22' International, though of a different brand. It cools my traler quite adequately, in fact, it will just about freeze me out, but I'm quite sure it is gross underkill for any Airstream 27' and up.
At a hot-weather rally last year, just about everyone with the larger trailers were suffering. I looked at the AC in a friend's 34-footer and his AC was identical to mine. He had to leave the International rally last year because of the heat.
I'm quite sure that at least a 15000 btu is needed to cool the larger trailers adequately.
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John W. Irwin
2005 Classic 28 "Sabre-Dog III"
2004 Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison
WBCCI Region 9 Webmaster, #9632
Funny, here we all are almost a year later and the 15k BTU A/C unit is widely availible and installed on any coach that is 25' of larger by request or as standard equipment on the Airstream line.....
Eric
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Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 1991
We purchased a Carrier 15,000 btu AC, so that we could have a pan made.
Interesting enough, that unit has what is called s "slinger." It's purpose is to throw the water onto the hot coil, making it evaporate.
However, we were able to simply modify their base pan, by installing a drain fitting at the bottom of the pan where the water collects. In doing so, all you need to do is hook up the drain hose in your trailer, to that fitting, and it's "done." Water no longer hits the slinger, but immediately drains.
No drain pan required.
That unit also has a built in oscillator for the louvers, which makes the air continuously flow up and down, if you wish. That causes considerably better circulation.
The Carrier also has a built in "air shower," that you can select to rapidly cool down when you come in all hot and sweaty.
I can't post any photo's but you can see that AC in our web site, part number 69090.
We think the Carrier will make all others obsolete, because of it's features.
Originally posted by jcanavera I'm a while from A/C replacement myself but many of you who came from the Yahoo list may remember my woes on my second trip out with the brand new Safari on a 100 degree weekend in June 2001. My inside temps hit the middle to upper 80's in full sun. What was especially gauling was the fact that the fellow who bought my SOB which was the same size as my Airstream and which had a 13,500 BTU Brisk Air unit was parked next to me and was quite comfortable.
My local dealer couldn't find a problem, I took the trailer to Jackson Center where they looked for air intrusion (they realigned the door), I got the specs from Duo-Therm and we verified that the Penguin was operating within specs.
I finally wrote A/S and told them that in my opinion the unit was probably undersized. They told me that the unit I has was the largest available (in the Penguin model) and that it was the one used in the trailers from 27' to 34'. I asked, from a design level what was their expectation of temperature differential from inside to outside temps. (Most homes here in St. Louis are designed to hold temps 20 degrees below outside air.) The answer from Jackson Center was "we have no standards".
Bottom line as time has gone on I have picked up the vibes from a lot of folks that on most of the newer trailers, the 13,500 Penguin is marginal in very hot weather in full sun conditions. I wouldn't be surprised that the 15,000 BTU unit was welcomed by A/S. I personally don't know how a 34' trailer can be cooled adequately by a 13,500 unit. As a matter of fact I have seen a few 34' trailers with two units on the roof.
I know if I ever have to replace my Penguin it will be with the 15,000 BTU unit. At this point we do consider climate in our travel plans since the current unit will obviously not do the job in very hot full sun conditions.
i have found this to be the case also jack on my 99 safari 27 ft with the 13500 btu penguin. it definately isnt over p-owered.especeially not on the hot weather days. i have also put a new 13500 btu penguin in my 19ft 62 globetrotter and it definately isnt even over powered there but does the job"ok"in both. take care wayne wunder w.b.c.c,i/v.a.c.#1859 62 globetrotter/99 safari
Jack
Well, the '03 Bambi did the same thing your unit did, but I am unsure what the new unit will do yet. If it is anything like the furnace, it might power down after the cycle is finished, but I'll have to let you know once it gets above 4 degrees!
Eric
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 1991
To a extent I am wondering if completly draining isn't counter productive. The amount of heat exchanged using cool water on the coils is increasing the effeicency tremendously.
I'm sure there is a point where the amount of water is going to exceed the resivorior in a humid climate and have to drain somewhere. What if you plumbed in the drain just below that point to keep the slinger functioning? It would be the best of both worlds.
Thanks for the heads up on this product. I will deffinatly look at it when we get to the A/C part of our restoration.
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1959 22' Caravanner
1988 R20 454 Suburban.
Atlanta, GA
last year when camping with a fellow forum member i noticed a difference in operation between out otherwise identical 13.5 units.
my blower runs constantly when the ac is on, roger's shuts off during non demand just like it would in your home.
does your 13.5 run 24/7 or does it cycle the blower on and off?
john
In the current Classics with the climate control thermostat, the blower cycles on and off. On my previous 2003 International, the blower stayed on all the time. So far, I haven't hit any real hot weather with my new Classic since I bought it in October.
Turning the blower off gives better humidity control since the condensation on the coils will drain instead of being evaporated right back into the trailer. There was a post some time back by an AC engineer who stressed that point. Lower humidity should mean a more comfortable trailer.
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John W. Irwin
2005 Classic 28 "Sabre-Dog III"
2004 Silverado 2500HD Duramax/Allison
WBCCI Region 9 Webmaster, #9632
The single AC on our 34' really struggles to keep it cool if the outside temp gets much above 90. It's stays more comfortable when the fan control is set to high/continuous during the day. At night we set the fan to Auto where it cycles on and off with the compressor.
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