The Holy Grail of the ACs

[VeggieBullet]

Eventually we will need to replace the 2 AC units on the Avion and we will like to know if there is a Holy Grail of the ACs (super cooling capacity, able to keep it cool in Arizona summer time, power saver and quiet)
So if you can please share your experience with the 15K BTUs will be great.
thanks for your input!

[lewster]

There are currently 6 different units available form 4 manufacturers:

• DOMETIC Penguin II low profile in high capacity (15K)
Brisk Air 15K higher profile

• RVP COLEMAN Mach 8 super low profile 15K
Mach 3 higher profile 15K

• Advent (CHINESE) 15K high profile

• Atwood (new to market) 15K high profile

My opinions:

Dometic has the best extended warranty of all available units 2 year factory plus optional 2 + 1 year additional warranty. This means a factory replacement of a bad unit for 4 years parts and labor, plus parts only in the 5th year for around $100....servicable thru ANY authorized Dometic service center.

RVP has a 2 year factory warranty with available extended 3 year additional. From my experience with RVP, they typically want the defective unit FIXED rather than REPLACED after the initial 2 year warranty and most RV Techs and service centers are not capable of changing compressors, adding process valves, finding and fixing leaks or re-charging systems. Regular residential A/C techs want nothing to do with RV units!

Advent has a 2 year warranty and will replace bad units. I have only seen a couple of these, and I'm not impressed with the design, construction or warranty. They are new to the RV air conditioning world and have a very long way to go!

Atwood has been in the furnace and water heater business for quite a while. They have recently entered the RV refrigeration scene with ammonia/helium gas/absorption units. Haven't seen any of these in new trailers or MoHOs yet so I can't comment. They also recently entered the RV air conditioning market. Haven't seen any of their units yet, but they claim to get the equivalent of 18K of cooling from a 15K unbid

If it is anything like their smoke and mirrors EXT series of water heaters, you can have them!

As far as reliability, Dometic and RVP have my vote....about equally. I will say that I replace a lot more Dometic units, but that is because they have the commanding presence in the RV field. I have also noticed a move by the very high end motor home manufacturers to go with the new RVP Coleman units over the Dometic versions.

Which is best? Toss-up! Ford, Chevy or Dodge..........

Questions?

[slowmover]

A friend in the commercial end of refrigeration business -- and an RV'er -- thought the RVP COLEMAN choice slightly better. I installed the 15k unit on my interim 32' Silver Streak turned it on and ran it the next nine months almost non-stop.

Ugly, though. Why the newer 1990 TT will have their new low profile 15k unit. IMO the rise above the roof is worth consideration, even on your aero 5'er.

[reinergirl]

The holy grail? What about Sergei's (smokeless joe) LG “Art Cool” split system air conditioner?

His thread
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...tml#post967026

[slowmover]

A 5'er the size of his will need good air distribution . . the downfall of the split system. OTOH there are commercial / bus systems that can go in a big storage compartment. $$$$

[drifter45]

Originally Posted by lewster

There are currently 6 different units available form 4 manufacturers:

• DOMETIC Penguin II low profile in high capacity (15K)
Brisk Air 15K higher profile

• RVP COLEMAN Mach 8 super low profile 15K
Mach 3 higher profile 15K

• Advent (CHINESE) 15K high profile

• Atwood (new to market) 15K high profile

My opinions:

Dometic has the best extended warranty of all available units 2 year factory plus optional 2 + 1 year additional warranty. This means a factory replacement of a bad unit for 4 years parts and labor, plus parts only in the 5th year for around $100....servicable thru ANY authorized Dometic service center.

RVP has a 2 year factory warranty with available extended 3 year additional. From my experience with RVP, they typically want the defective unit FIXED rather than REPLACED after the initial 2 year warranty and most RV Techs and service centers are not capable of changing compressors, adding process valves, finding and fixing leaks or re-charging systems. Regular residential A/C techs want nothing to do with RV units!

Advent has a 2 year warranty and will replace bad units. I have only seen a couple of these, and I'm not impressed with the design, construction or warranty. They are new to the RV air conditioning world and have a very long way to go!

Atwood has been in the furnace and water heater business for quite a while. They have recently entered the RV refrigeration scene with ammonia/helium gas/absorption units. Haven't seen any of these in new trailers or MoHOs yet so I can't comment. They also recently entered the RV air conditioning market. Haven't seen any of their units yet, but they claim to get the equivalent of 18K of cooling from a 15K unbid

If it is anything like their smoke and mirrors EXT series of water heaters, you can have them!

As far as reliability, Dometic and RVP have my vote....about equally. I will say that I replace a lot more Dometic units, but that is because they have the commanding presence in the RV field. I have also noticed a move by the very high end motor home manufacturers to go with the new RVP Coleman units over the Dometic versions.

Which is best? Toss-up! Ford, Chevy or Dodge..........

Questions?

Lew will the Dometic Air Conditioner Drain Kit you spoke about work with any of the unit you mentioned? Thanks in advance.

[ggoat!!!]

Why on earth Coleman went with that God-awful horrendous squared off giant depressingly horrific hideous exterior unshapely extremely hellishly disgustingly ugly exterior shroud I'll NEVER know. I would NEVER put something so ugly on ANYTHING.




ESPECIALLY when the OLD style shrouds looked GREAT!!!!

[lewster]

Originally Posted by drifter45

Lew will the Dometic Air Conditioner Drain Kit you spoke about work with any of the unit you mentioned? Thanks in advance.

Drifter,

YES!

I recently added the Dometic drain kits to a couple of RVP Mach 15 (15K not low profile heat pumps) and they worked well. You have to do a bit of tubing surgery, as these units have drain holes at a different width than Dometic, but they work just the same!

The Mach 8 can be had with an integrated condensate pump which takes the place of the drain kits.

[Olie]

Lewster,

I called Dometic, asked what the btu rating is for the high capacity Penguin II HP. They would only say that it was High Capacity and would not provide a btu rating. My assumption is that it must be something between 13.5K and 15K. However , I see where you and others refer to it as 15K.

What is your take on Dometics comment?

[OldVwHunters]

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

Why on earth Coleman went with that God-awful horrendous squared off giant depressingly horrific hideous exterior unshapely extremely hellishly disgustingly ugly exterior shroud I'll NEVER know. I would NEVER put something so ugly on ANYTHING.




ESPECIALLY when the OLD style shrouds looked GREAT!!!!

LOL!! Think you could tell us how you really feel about the looks of it?

[drifter45]

Great. Thanks for the inf.

[lewster]

Originally Posted by Olie

Lewster,

I called Dometic, asked what the btu rating is for the high capacity Penguin II HP. They would only say that it was High Capacity and would not provide a btu rating. My assumption is that it must be something between 13.5K and 15K. However , I see where you and others refer to it as 15K.

What is your take on Dometics comment?

From the feed back I have gotten from my clients that have upgraded their Dometic units from 13.5 to the 'high performance', they have been universally satisfied with the cooling capacity of the new, larger units.

From what I have seen, I would suspect that they are even a little larger in capacity than 15K, but when I spoke to a resource I have at Dometic, he was equally non-committal about the exact size, saying only that it is 'similar' to the old 15K units but that they didn't want to get into a 'capacity race' with their competition.

[ginabone]

Originally Posted by reinergirl

The holy grail? What about Sergei's (smokeless joe) LG “Art Cool” split system air conditioner?

His thread
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...tml#post967026

Reinegirl,

I too have been intrigued with Sergi's AC adaptations. I have been toying with the idea of replacing that gawd Awful roof top rattler ( in a 22' 2013 sport) with this unit KSIN009-H119 9000 BTU Mini Ductless Split AC - Heat Pump

They are so quiet and efficient especially with the inverter system.

I have an email out to him asking for advice. Will post later.

Zeke

[lewster]

Originally Posted by zekeobond

Reinegirl,

I too have been intrigued with Sergi's AC adaptations. I have been toying with the idea of replacing that gawd Awful roof top rattler ( in a 22' 2013 sport) with this unit KSIN009-H119 9000 BTU Mini Ductless Split AC - Heat Pump

They are so quiet and efficient especially with the inverter system.

I have an email out to him asking for advice. Will post later.

Zeke

How long do you intend to run an A/C unit from an inverter? How large is your battery bank? You might be sorely disappointed when you add in the Peukert effect and realize that your initial calculations do not account for this.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by lewster

How long do you intend to run an A/C unit from an inverter? How large is your battery bank? You might be sorely disappointed when you add in the Peukert effect and realize that your initial calculations do not account for this.

It looks like the unit itself has what's billed as an "inverter" to drive the DC compressor. They should call that a converter, since it's AC to DC, but I've seen that language in other listings for these split-system room ACs.

[Aviator]

I installed the Penguin II 15K unit as a replacement for my Penguin I 13.5K unit in our 1997 34'. I also changed the interior ceiling mounted air box. The single unit does keep out trailer cool in the Atlanta Summer, but it is much louder inside the trailer than the old unit.

If I were doing it over again, I would have gone with another 13.5K unit in the middle of the trailer and an 11K unit in the rear bedroom.

[ginabone]

Originally Posted by lewster

How long do you intend to run an A/C unit from an inverter? How large is your battery bank? You might be sorely disappointed when you add in the Peukert effect and realize that your initial calculations do not account for this.

Lewster,

Glad you chimed in. I will not be running the ac through an inverter off of a battery bank. I run the ac on 110-120 volts land line. The ac unit has an inverter built in to run the inside unit more efficiently on Dc current. According to the specs, there is not that on then off then lag then on again. One will have to read the specs as I'm no expert.

[ginabone]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

It looks like the unit itself has what's billed as an "inverter" to drive the DC compressor. They should call that a converter, since it's AC to DC, but I've seen that language in other listings for these split-system room ACs.

Actually it's AC to DC back to ac at a different frequency...go figure!

[SmokelessJoe]

Lewster,

DKB and Zeke have the correct understanding of how the terminology “inverter” is used in these split systems.

It’s somewhat similar to how inverting is done in the modern, very quiet generators. Here’s how HONDA describes their’s:

First, the generator's alternator produces high voltage multiphase AC power. The AC power is then converted to DC. Finally the DC power is converted back to AC by the inverter. The inverter also smoothes and cleans the power to make it high quality. A special microprocessor controls the entire process, as well as the speed of the engine.

I know that my Japanese built Subaru Robbins works like this.

My layman’s description of how modern, superior AC split systems work is this:
Unlike conventional air conditioning, where the compressor slams on whenever called for by the room thermostat, the split unit blower head inside, using 12v fans and controlled by micro processors, continues to use the resident cold in the gas lines even when the compressor is not running. Thus you have extreme quiet and high efficiency.

My LG Art Cool system is so quiet that you can conduct a normal conversation standing outside alongside the compressor. In a trailer park, the roar of your neighbor’s rooftop will drown out any sound emanating from your compressor!

Inside the trailer the system is often so quiet that I have to check the LED indicators to see what function the machine is in.

I agree with reinergirl that the Split AC is the Holy Grail.
Along with my diesel powered hydronic heating system I consider the Split AC, along with the macerator system, the best things accomplished in my renewal of the ARGOSY.

Here are links to some other Forum discussions on the subject:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...a-89158-3.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...bed-36922.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f227...tml#post239455

Zeke, I tried to answer your PM’s but they bounce back from your Comcast address. Send me a better address.

Sergei




entire unit soon available

[lewster]

Got it!

Thanks!