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alumascoupe · 01-09-2013, 01:49 AM

I have plans to put as much solar as I can fit on my 26', would I hurt my long term resale value by putting 2 panels where the A/C was ? I don't plan on needing A/C but do plan on lots of solar and there just isn't much room with all the vents, smaller solar panels go up in price per watt exponentially so big spaces are best, am I nuts to eliminate the A/C ?(its a no longer working original armstrong from 66' I believe)

slowmover · 01-09-2013, 02:52 AM

I've seen an AVION TT in CO for sale for a very long time when most are moving fairly quickly. The price is a little high, but the removal of A/C and addition of extra solar panels does not help, IMO. Punching holes in the roof or taped (the potential buyer doesn't know how installed or how well) plus all kinds of extra wiring is something of a flag to buyers.

OTOH, it's yours so don't worry about it. No TT ever returns what is spent on it. Valuation is not like a car. One must log number of nights aboard annually + miles in tow to have a more accurate rendition of "value delivered".

FWIW I wouldn't remove A/C. Whether humidity or temp control (not to mention dust), the A/C is more than just a bit of cooling capacity. And how well have you calculated loads? There is something of a limit to how much batt capacity (size & weight) that a given TT can carry or use. That is where I would spend more time.

.

Zeppelinium · 01-09-2013, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumascoupe

I...do plan on lots of solar and there just isn't much room with all the vents, ... am I nuts to eliminate the A/C ?(its a no longer working original armstrong from 66' I believe)

If you're talking solar you must be a boondocker. The only place I've ever used A/C is in Vegas and during a couple of dust storms at Burning Man. Despite that, I've got a working A/C on all my Airstreams. Duh.

If you attend a vintage rally, say, the RMVAC, you see a good percentage of the Airstreams without A/C units, mostly the pre-70s models. So it's not unheard of, at all. So I don't think it's a big deal to remove it, especially if it's not working. It's easy to skin over the 14" hole in a way that preserves its availability for a new A/C later.

BTW, many threads have commented that the original Armstrong is repairable.

Having said all that, I think most vintage Airstreams are over-vented. This is especially true if you replace a vent with a Fantastic Fan. If you have three vents, I would suggest removing and skinning over a vent, in addition to removing the A/C.

Zep

crispyboy · 01-09-2013, 05:39 AM

I have been recently trying to educate myself about solar and in another thread someone recommended I read handy bobs blog about solar. It is long read but it details about a guy who lives off the grid both with his rv and house for many years now. Apparently there is a lot to setting up solar to make it work properly and be efficient. You should be able to keep the AC unit.
http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

alumascoupe · 01-09-2013, 06:03 AM

Why yes, I am building a boondocking trailer ! A temporary domicile for use during my dream home construction. I really like the thought of being green, building things to last and using our limited resources as wisely as possible, not too many more generations will be able to consume as we have, we should all be ashamed to be honest. Sorry for the rant. As much as I'd love to keep my "dreamstream" forever, I fear I will likely have to sell it eventually to fund the final stages of the house so I have to give some consideration to the future owner who preferably wants to boondock too. I have considered my loads and figure I can be more than comfortable using 150 amp/hours a day. The battery weight is an issue for sure. I still have a wide open floorspace so placement ideas are appreciated, probably 4 trojans 2 each side on the frame rails with huge cable between ? I'm open to ideas, I never considered removing a vent, but I like where this is going, the one in front is huge and both back ones are 14x14 I think. I do not have a 14x14 cut out for A/C as the original has only two small holes less than 2x3" each and I've already patched them. Unless I rebuild the Armstrong I would have to cut a much larger hole in the roof. If only there were ribs to support the heavy beast I'd put a newer A/C in the 14x14 vent thats over the kitchen area. I personally dont like A/C but if everyone else does now is the time to do it. I'm waiting to figure the solar panel mount set-up so I can finish insulating the roof and install the interior. Is boondocking/solar/and A/C too oxymoronic ? I might just have to fully commit to boondock special

Silver Goose · 01-09-2013, 06:52 AM

Do you plan to incorporate solar electric in your dream home? Just a thought, but if so have you considered erecting a free standing array to power the trailer and then reuse the panels for the home later?

flygrrl · 01-09-2013, 06:56 AM

Can you park the 'stream in the shade where you are building? Can you do a separate battery storage and assorted electronics under the trailer with the panels on a ground mount in the sun?You can always repurpose the panels later for the house if they are not dedicated to the TT. Weight should not be an issue if the trailer is parked on your lot for the duration of the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumascoupe

Why yes, I am building a boondocking trailer ! A temporary domicile for use during my dream home construction. I really like the thought of being green, building things to last and using our limited resources as wisely as possible, not too many more generations will be able to consume as we have, we should all be ashamed to be honest. Sorry for the rant. As much as I'd love to keep my "dreamstream" forever, I fear I will likely have to sell it eventually to fund the final stages of the house so I have to give some consideration to the future owner who preferably wants to boondock too. I have considered my loads and figure I can be more than comfortable using 150 amp/hours a day. The battery weight is an issue for sure. I still have a wide open floorspace so placement ideas are appreciated, probably 4 trojans 2 each side on the frame rails with huge cable between ? I'm open to ideas, I never considered removing a vent, but I like where this is going, the one in front is huge and both back ones are 14x14 I think. I do not have a 14x14 cut out for A/C as the original has only two small holes less than 2x3" each and I've already patched them. Unless I rebuild the Armstrong I would have to cut a much larger hole in the roof. If only there were ribs to support the heavy beast I'd put a newer A/C in the 14x14 vent thats over the kitchen area. I personally dont like A/C but if everyone else does now is the time to do it. I'm waiting to figure the solar panel mount set-up so I can finish insulating the roof and install the interior. Is boondocking/solar/and A/C too oxymoronic ? I might just have to fully commit to boondock special

flygrrl · 01-09-2013, 06:57 AM

Silver Goose we seem to be on the same wavelength

Zeppelinium · 01-09-2013, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumascoupe

... Is boondocking/solar/and A/C too oxymoronic ? I might just have to fully commit to boondock special

I think almost any 115V appliance is incompatible with boondocking. I carry a generator for those few minutes I want to run the microwave. Along those same lines, I think an inverter is a bad idea in an Airstream, except maybe a small one for charging a phone or running a laptop (hard to resist the internet).

You can put in your own braces in the 14x14 vent openings to support an A/C. Trim a couple of 2x4s to the outside and inside contour of the roof and use multiple screws to attach them to the outer skin. You will be surprised how stiff this is. Details in this post.

Zep

RickDavis · 01-09-2013, 07:38 AM

150 amp hours a day seems like quite a lot. With a little care our use runs in the 30 to 40 amp hour per day range.
I have 250 watts of panels. Were I wanting to add more I would consider standing them off above the vents so the vent can still be opened for ventilation.
This would work well with the front vent large vent as they don't open that high anyway.
I would also consider making front and rear window covers of solar panels and hinge them up when parked like the window guards. This would not only give you more panel real estate but also keep you a little cooler like window awnings.

My own opinion is I have an older trailer that I will make do what I want. I will punch holes and make modifications to suit my life style and not worry about what the next owner might like.

TouringDan · 01-09-2013, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeppelinium

If you attend a vintage rally, say, the RMVAC, you see a good percentage of the Airstreams without A/C units, mostly the pre-70s models. So it's not unheard of, at all. So I don't think it's a big deal to remove it, especially if it's not working. It's easy to skin over the 14" hole in a way that preserves its availability for a new A/C later.

BTW, many threads have commented that the original Armstrong is repairable.

Having said all that, I think most vintage Airstreams are over-vented. This is especially true if you replace a vent with a Fantastic Fan. If you have three vents, I would suggest removing and skinning over a vent, in addition to removing the A/C.

Zep

Zep

There is no large 14x14 hole for AC if you have a 66, just two small holes less than 2" in diameter. See post #35 in the following thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f427...y-91215-3.html

I am glad that I removed my Armstrong overhead AC. My window unit works fine.

I agree that they are overvented. I still have three overhead vents in my 24' Tradewind.

Dan

alumascoupe · 01-09-2013, 09:52 PM

Thanks everyone this is seriously helping to bounce some ideas around so keep the ideas coming ! So far it seems no A/C isn't very popular, while I've never considered myself one to "conform" I'm beginning to learn non-conformity leads to lost money on investments which is what I consider my AS to be. I want to keep it forever, but I need a house instead of a rent payment and I think the AS can help that process.
I didn't consider just keeping my solar when I eventually sell and that may well be what I end up doing. 12v isn't preferred for residential but it can work.
Eliminating a vent wont get me the room I need as I can fit the panels alongside of them, its the A/C is so wide the panels would hang halfway down the side and detract too much from the good looks its so famous for.
Until I realized the conflict I planned on running 4 panels down each side of the roof with hinged mounts on both sides of the 2 arrays, so each group of four panels could tilt in unison from the sides nearest the vents or the sides nearest the awning like this( / vent / ) or this ( \ vent \ ) so as long as I park on an east/west axis I can tilt 800 watts to the sun ! 800 seems like a lot but I want to see if its possible to keep the luxuries while being "green", better too much than not enough. Should I move this to the solar forum ? Now I'm thinking I need to leave room for the A/C .

thomp · 01-09-2013, 10:33 PM

Yes

TouringDan · 01-10-2013, 06:37 AM

I agree that the selling price of your Airstream will probably be higher with AC, but consider that some vintage Airstreamers would probably prefer the trailer without AC. I would never cut the hole and install the new AC now, but would instead leave the space for the AC and the wiring in place, so that you can cut the hole later and add AC if you (or the next owner) wants to.

We also never know the future. You just may end up keeping the Airstream. They really have a way of growing on you.

Dan

Bill M. · 01-10-2013, 08:47 AM

Where is Frozen, Tundra? That might have a lot to do with the answers to your questions. Will you be building on a site that does not have electricity? If cost and recovery of investment is a consideration just buying a generator is probably more cost efficient and more likely to recover the cost of investment that doing a lot of expensive solar additions to the trailer. And probably just as "green".

alumascoupe · 01-11-2013, 01:03 AM

I have yet to decide on a build site, so I figured the AS can open up the possibilities for build sites with no power/sewer/etc. (While at the same time limiting me to areas that dont hate RV's

) Along with providing me with a platform to learn what it takes to be off-grid, its like RV's have been "off grid" since before the term even existed.
Bill, Frozen Tundra is a term usually associated with the nearest football stadium which happens to be located nearby in Titletown, USA. That's all I'll say!
Crispyboy, I stumbled on handy bobs site last year and WOW ! I've read it about 3x now, he hooked me on the oversize DC wire talk, I had a huge improvement in my waaay too obnoxious Car stereo when I was younger due to upgrading the undersize wiring from 8ga. to 4ga. so I knew handybob at least had some credibility, great site for everyone to read!
Touring Dan, I think I will just leave the A/C off for now. It's newly wired, holes are all patched or filled with buck rivets, and I'll add some extra c-channel I have bent up for roof bracing so A/C is always an option for the future, I'll tackle roof "real estate" issues then I guess. Thanks All !

Skater · 01-11-2013, 08:19 AM

A quick google search turned up "Frozen Tundra" is a nickname for Lambeau Field, in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Bill M didn't ask because he wants to stalk you; he asked because it's RELEVANT TO YOUR QUESTION about needing air conditioning.

alumascoupe · 01-12-2013, 12:20 AM

skater, the words subtle and discreet must not be in your vocabulary, while I am not worried about stalkers on this forum I feel it is unwise to broadcast my location, property, and pictures of my things for the world to see and for those who know no discretion to view. If one is unable to determine the need for A/C based upon a location named Frozen Tundra I guess I have no worries though.

After reading several posts about stolen AS I felt my answer was both discreet, clever, and might broaden some peoples horizons. Have I angered you in my response to someone else somehow that I earned your chastising in CAPS ?
Seriously, chill out ! Head for the frozen tundra and that becomes easier !
I'm here to learn, not to argue.

Zeppelinium · 01-12-2013, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumascoupe

... while I am not worried about stalkers on this forum I feel it is unwise to broadcast my location, property, and pictures of my things for the world to see and for those who know no discretion to view. ...

Privacy is a good thing, but I think it can be maintained if you list your state and maybe even a nearby city.

Many members come on this forum for technical help or advice. The quality of that advice can be influenced by the geographic location of the asking member. I remember railing against someone's weird electrical problem and had to correct myself when I discovered he was in Europe, which imposes some high hurdles on their RVs.

I also think that when a member conceals their location, they miss out on help from nearby members and they miss out on providing the community some help in return. You have to use judgment, of course, but I don't think the bad guys are going to find you if you say "Denver" or "Chicago," or even less so if you just say "North Dakota."

If you're on the Forums for its social/community aspect, I think listing your general location is essential.

Just one guy's opinion, Zep

Skater · 01-12-2013, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumascoupe

skater, the words subtle and discreet must not be in your vocabulary, while I am not worried about stalkers on this forum I feel it is unwise to broadcast my location, property, and pictures of my things for the world to see and for those who know no discretion to view. If one is unable to determine the need for A/C based upon a location named Frozen Tundra I guess I have no worries though.

After reading several posts about stolen AS I felt my answer was both discreet, clever, and might broaden some peoples horizons.

None of those thieves were browsing AIR Forums looking for campers to steal, don't worry. And frankly knowing you are somewhere near Green Bay, Wisconsin really does not zero in on your location very much.

Quote:

Have I angered you in my response to someone else somehow that I earned your chastising in CAPS ?
Seriously, chill out ! Head for the frozen tundra and that becomes easier !
I'm here to learn, not to argue.

The issue is this: You asked for help. Someone asked for more info that was relevant to the question. You danced around the issue and avoided answering the question, even in a general sense. Why would you want to make it harder for someone who is trying to help you?

I see this on the car forum I'm on all the time. People will ask about a problem, but leave out relevant details like they swapped the engine or recently were working on the electrical system after a fire, or other absurd situations. So people like me try to offer suggestions based on stock configurations or even common aftermarket modifications, only to find our time was being wasted. It's inconsiderate to the people who are trying to help.

Additionally, "frozen tundra" could mean anything. My parents moved to Florida a couple years ago and now think that 40 degrees is freezing weather. But they most definitely need air conditioning!