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TouringDan · 10-16-2018, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSunny

I have thought of ways to do the same for when I move up to the mountains. Hesitant as I may be to move to an area where it dips below 30 degrees for weeks, if not months, I am more likely to add better insulation to my flooring and look at ways to heat without added electrical draw.

My biggest apprehension, not fear, would be losing electricity for longer than a day or two. I am looking into a woof pellet stove or something similar, but I am also making sure to seal everything well and maintain my hearing sources - propane and wood heaters.

If you are dealing with 30 degrees or so I would just replace the original furnace with one that uses less electricity to operate the fan. The one that I am installing only draws 1.8 amps. Assuming that it runs about half time it would draw only 1 amp or 24 amp-hours per day. One 100 amp solar panel or a small generator should be able to keep your batteries charged just fine. No need for a wood pellet stove. Remember that new solutions have new problems.

Dan

Daquenzer · 10-16-2018, 09:22 PM

So the average house has an envelope of R5. What you should do is figure out what the average R factor is on your Airstream. Engineers then determine the amount of BTUs needed to heat the house at a particular temperature with an R5 factor. I think you are going to find that an AS is about an R1.

Acheron2010 · 10-16-2018, 09:45 PM

I'm just a novice at this, but does a Dometic 13,000 BTU AC unit with a heat pump generate 13,000 BTUs of heat when used as a heat pump?
And wouldn't two of these units adequately heat any size Airstream in a Minnesota winter with 50 amp service?

SilverSunny · 10-17-2018, 02:58 AM

Dan,

Actually, I gutted my 71 AS Land Yacht Tradewind. I took out all of the original gas heater and ductwork. It wasn't in good shape.

Just like the original poster, I still have to lay flooring (which I already have), but I have been researching the insulated underlayments to use. When I am done with the flooring, then I will decide on my heat source. I am currently using an electric fireplace, but am looking at non-electric fireplaces.

Daquenzer · 10-17-2018, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acheron2010

I'm just a novice at this, but does a Dometic 13,000 BTU AC unit with a heat pump generate 13,000 BTUs of heat when used as a heat pump?

And wouldn't two of these units adequately heat any size Airstream in a Minnesota winter with 50 amp service?

Heat pumps are not to be used below 40 degrees. Will freeze up.

kendrick.l.j · 10-17-2018, 04:45 AM

Acheron2010, short answer is no. Heat pumps can not, will not keep your interior warm when the outside temps drops below 40. Lots of data on this in houses that are far better insulated than a AS.

uncle_bob · 10-17-2018, 08:14 AM

Hi

As others have mentioned, heat pumps are great if it's not very cold out.

R values on the walls in the trailer are one thing. The windows are all single pane so they are horrible for R value. Put a cover on them and they might get up to an R1. It depends a lot on the cover.

In a normal house, there is little heat loss through the floor. Get some wind going and that's not the case with a trailer or motor home. There's not a lot of insulation down there. Yes, you can do things with hay bales to block the air flow. Next issue there are the things that decide to live in the hay ...

Finally, there are a lot of places air can flow into a trailer that simply don't exist in a house. They are a good thing when you turn on the furnace or oven without opening a window. In the case of heat loss ... not so much. Just like the floor issue, wind speed and direction matters for them.

Lots of issues ....

Bob

mykytiukr · 10-21-2018, 10:24 AM

Radiant heat is always a good idea! If I was going to do a restoration like you are planning I would be using some sort of heated floor and do the whole floor. Be it either electric or antifreeze heated/circulated system. This will eliminate any cold spots. I also agree not using propane for the primary heat source. I would be using the Espar or Webasto heating oil/diesel fired type of interior heater. These have been used in over-the-road trucks for night time use and small ocean going yachts, heating 24/7, for years. And, I would be installing two of them. Either the 4kw one or the 6kw one. One of them running should keep you comfortable on all but coldest days. I believe these are the most dependable heaters made. Very simple and no pressurized fuel to leak, inside or to the outside. There is also a Russian made heater of this type at about half the price and has some really good reviews! From experience, if you only use a No. 1 fuel such as No. 1 heating oil which is kerosine, No. 1 diesel or Jet-A, it will require virtually no maintenance. Just my thoughts! Good Luck!

Diego · 10-21-2018, 11:02 AM

Check out the Alde system it is much more efficient and quiet.

Tony Lee · 10-21-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

1) Platimun Cats: These are a vented propane catalytic heater that uses very little propane and very little electricity to give you infared heating surface. No condensation or carbon monoxide to worry about.

Can you point me to specific make and model of this sort of heater, because the ones commonly seen DO cause condensation inside the vehicle and are not entirely free of Carbon Monoxide emissions.

pteck · 10-21-2018, 01:06 PM

Without trying to build in radiant heat into the floors, a couple of these easy portable mats might be the ticket:
https://www.amazon.com/Cozy-Products...s=electric+rug

Overstreet · 10-21-2018, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acheron2010

I'm just a novice at this, but does a Dometic 13,000 BTU AC unit with a heat pump generate 13,000 BTUs of heat when used as a heat pump?
And wouldn't two of these units adequately heat any size Airstream in a Minnesota winter with 50 amp service?

Yes. Until the temp gets below forty degrees.

Overstreet · 10-21-2018, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

So the average house has an envelope of R5. What you should do is figure out what the average R factor is on your Airstream. Engineers then determine the amount of BTUs needed to heat the house at a particular temperature with an R5 factor. I think you are going to find that an AS is about an R1.

Seems like code in Florida is R-19 in 2x4 stud walls. I think R5 is an error. I know my Minn relatives had more than that with 6" studs. Memory is fuzzy and I'm not about to dig out my old code and insulation books, but the AS needs more insulation, agreed.

Popcornkid · 10-22-2018, 12:24 AM

Check out Rug Buddy.
https://cozywinters.com/shop/rug-heat.html
Just be sure to insulate your floors, we live in our motorhome from October to April in central BC Canada, no problem .

SilverSunny listed it as well.

kendrick.l.j · 10-22-2018, 04:12 AM

I didn’t see anyone mentioning the AquaHot system. I don’t know much about it but I know it is used in some of the high end Class A motor homes.

Overstreet · 10-22-2018, 05:19 AM

That said, the average AS has a 2"+/- wall and batt insulation that is likely R 5 insulation.

uncle_bob · 10-22-2018, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

Can you point me to specific make and model of this sort of heater, because the ones commonly seen DO cause condensation inside the vehicle and are not entirely free of Carbon Monoxide emissions.

Hi

Regardless of how, the process of turning propane into heat is chemically the same. You combine oxygen with the carbon and get CO2. You combine oxygen with the hydrogen and get water. If you run low on oxygen, you get CO instead of CO2. The amount of water from a catalytic converter is the same as the amount of water from an open flame (properly adjusted) that produces the same number of BTU's of heat .... It's just basic chemistry. (Yes, the wife is a chemistry teacher so I hear this stuff a lot ....

)

Bob

TheGreatleys · 10-22-2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

Can you point me to specific make and model of this sort of heater, because the ones commonly seen DO cause condensation inside the vehicle and are not entirely free of Carbon Monoxide emissions.

Platinum Cat is a vented catalytic heater.

http://ventedcatheater.com

TheGreatleys · 10-22-2018, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Regardless of how, the process of turning propane into heat is chemically the same. You combine oxygen with the carbon and get CO2. You combine oxygen with the hydrogen and get water. If you run low on oxygen, you get CO instead of CO2. The amount of water from a catalytic converter is the same as the amount of water from an open flame (properly adjusted) that produces the same number of BTU's of heat .... It's just basic chemistry. (Yes, the wife is a chemistry teacher so I hear this stuff a lot ....

)

Bob

The trick is to vent the exhaust outside, rather than into your coach. Chemistry is the same, results are different.

I don't have personal experience with the Platinum Cat, but the principle seems reasonable.

uncle_bob · 10-23-2018, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatleys

The trick is to vent the exhaust outside, rather than into your coach. Chemistry is the same, results are different.

I don't have personal experience with the Platinum Cat, but the principle seems reasonable.

Hi

A properly set up furnace of any sort gets set up to vent outside. The gotcha is that people grab portable catalytic heaters and don't vent them ....

One minor gotcha with any gas combustion process - part of the energy released is the heat that turns the water vapor into steam / humidity. The total BTU's from the process include re-condensing this water vapor back to liquid water. That's rarely what we want to do in a trailer. It leads to all sorts of nonsense when people write advertising copy .....

Bob