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Old 05-24-2014, 11:31 PM   #1
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R-12 Question

We have a '73 with the original Armstrong A/C unit on top. Still works, but not as well as we would like. Measuring the output air temp, it's only around 70 degrees. I'm guessing it should be lower and think that it might need a little more R-12 refrigerant. R-12 is impossible to find and very expensive if you can find any at all.

So here's the question......

I fella told me today that he remembered reading about an R-12 "friendly" additive was available that has the same cooling properties of R-12 but none of the environmental negatives.

Anybody heard of this? Gotta trade name? Location to buy? Got any spare beer?

Any help/knowledge/web sites/detailed instructions greatly appreciated.

Jim
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:36 PM   #2
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Hi, I think anything related to R-12 has been banned from production. I have about 35 lbs of R-12 at home. Haven't checked the going price.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:42 PM   #3
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Does it use R12 or R22?

I THINK R22.. But not 100%.

Both have ceased production, but both are still available and will be for some time.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:44 PM   #4
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Hi, I think anything related to R-12 has been banned from production. I have about 35 lbs of R-12 at home. Haven't checked the going price.

Yer sittin' on a Gold Mine. Save it for yer retirement.

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Old 05-24-2014, 11:45 PM   #5
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Does it use R12 or R22?

I THINK R22.. But not 100%.

Both have ceased production, but both are still available and will be for some time.
Let me go check......I thought R-12, back in a flash.....

Jim
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:55 PM   #6
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Well I'll be danged. The data plate says "refrigerant 22", so I assume it's R-22. That stuff is expensive as well, but not as much as R-12. It only needs 24 ounces of R-22, so that makes the task a bit easier.

I could swear I read "R-12" on a data plate someplace. Thanks for making me double-check.

Jim
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:59 PM   #7
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You made me do some self education.

I found that R22 boils at about -40, R12 at about -20, and R134A at about -15.

I am surprised that an Armstrong takes only a pound and a half of refrigerant.
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:08 AM   #8
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Bob, to answer your question directly....

Last year we had our home AC unit serviced and I casually asked the technician if he had access to R-12 for the Airstream. What he told me was that the only way to buy R-12 was to buy a "Full canister" (like the big green ones they bring to your house to service the outside unit). I have no idea what the weight of the canister is, really, but he said that it was running several thousand dollars at that time. (I think he said $3000, but can't be certain). At any rate, it's worth a few bucks.

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:14 AM   #9
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R-12 Question

R12 isn't that much, check out eBay. It is a lot more than 134A, but not out of reach for most folks.

It iis available in small cans and 30lb cylinders.

R22 however seems to only be available in 30 lb cylinders.
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim & Susan View Post
We have a '73 with the original Armstrong A/C unit on top. Still works, but not as well as we would like. Measuring the output air temp, it's only around 70 degrees. I'm guessing it should be lower and think that it might need a little more R-12 refrigerant. R-12 is impossible to find and very expensive if you can find any at all.

So here's the question......

I fella told me today that he remembered reading about an R-12 "friendly" additive was available that has the same cooling properties of R-12 but none of the environmental negatives.

Anybody heard of this? Gotta trade name? Location to buy? Got any spare beer?

Any help/knowledge/web sites/detailed instructions greatly appreciated.

Jim
Jim,

I noticed that you stated that your unit was putting out 70F exhaust air into the trailer. What was the temperature at the return air grill? This is important as the specifications for an RV roof A/C unit is 18-22F as a differential between the return air and the cold exhaust air from the evaporator. Your unit should be running for at least 10-15 minutes with the compressor on before taking this measurement.

RV air conditioner performance does not rely on the outside ambient temperature but rather, the temperature at the return air grill of the A/C unit in question.

Just be certain that your Armstrong isn't operating within this range before you go spending repair dollars if they really aren't necessary.

Thanks!
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:37 AM   #11
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Thanks Lew. I'll go crank it up now and post some data.

Jim
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:54 AM   #12
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Yer sittin' on a Gold Mine. Save it for yer retirement.

Jim
Hi, I am retired; has been about six years now.

Quote:
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Bob, to answer your question directly....

Last year we had our home AC unit serviced and I casually asked the technician if he had access to R-12 for the Airstream. What he told me was that the only way to buy R-12 was to buy a "Full canister" (like the big green ones they bring to your house to service the outside unit). I have no idea what the weight of the canister is, really, but he said that it was running several thousand dollars at that time. (I think he said $3000, but can't be certain). At any rate, it's worth a few bucks.

Jim
Hi, I was saving it for my 1959 Ford Galaxie, but I just sold it. I have about four little cans and one 30lb'er. The problem is, if you sell it at the swap meet or on E-Bay, they want you to document that you sold it to a licensed air condition repair person.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:00 AM   #13
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R12 isn't that much, check out eBay. It is a lot more than 134A, but not out of reach for most folks.

It iis available in small cans and 30lb cylinders.

R22 however seems to only be available in 30 lb cylinders.
Hi, I just checked E-Bay and it seems that 30 lbs. of R-12 is going for around $900.00 and Freeze 12 about $500.00 for 30 lbs.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:01 AM   #14
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Just looked up R-12 replacement refrigerants on Amazon and they have coolant that is safe to mix with R-12 or R-134a for $10 a can. But you will need R-12 adapters.

Amazon.com: Enviro-Safe R134a R12 Replacement AC Refrigerant + Dye 1 Can 12a: Automotive

I've used similar products on my older vehicles with great success.
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