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Old 12-19-2010, 09:24 PM   #85
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Moving aftward the next shots show the T and reducer installed under the drawers under the microwave. First I assembled the T and reducer using sheet metal screws. They fit snugly so no tape or sealant is required. Then the new 4" duct from the furnace is cut to fit the large end of the T, and two pieces of 2" duct are attached to the outlets. The whole thing fits under the drawers.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:29 PM   #86
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The two new 2" ducts proceed under the range, where I couldn't get a photo, and then emerge under the false floor in the coat closet. I had to use the hole saw to drill a hole for one of them because there is some excess internal wall that blocks access.

These next shots are looking down into the coat closet. In the bottom of the photo (toward the center of the trailer) you can see the wall box for the pic-a-watt heater I installed previously. I removed the existing 4x4x2 T and the short section of 2" duct that went down to the fresh water tank. I was able to splice the two existing pieces of 4" ductwork together by hand and will run some tape over them at some point. This is what the mother ship does (see downthread). The other piece of 2" duct continues to the shower area aft of the closet.

The changes leave this area no more or less cluttered than before, since the T is gone, but there's one more duct.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:37 PM   #87
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My original plan had been to run one of the 2" ducts to the carpeted box at the head of the curbside bed (I have a twin) where the existing 4" duct emerges in a register.

It turns out that the way Airstream builds these, the bulkhead between the shower and the bedroom is the same for twins and queens, so there's only a 4" hole. Airstream spliced a couple feet onto the duct using clear packing tape. Jackson Center, meet duct tape; despite widespread misuse it is in fact the proper product for joining ductwork.

Anyway, the only access into this area is through the 4" hole at the front of the carpeted box, and the box is assembled and attached to the underbed cabinetry and the bulkhead using staples. Experience has shown that it is nearly impossible to disassemble stuff like this without damaging it.

I've decided to just let the 2" duct terminate behind the shower, for now. At some point I may try to get a right angle drill and a hole saw inside the duct outlet but that's going to be a time-consuming ship-in-a-bottle type of project and great care will be required to be sure the hole doesn't end up going through the fiberglass shower stall or some other equally critical component.
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:42 PM   #88
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Here's a shot of the bottom of the closet with the ducts removed. It's hard to see what's what but the short of it is that the loose duct that terminates in this area is warming one end of the fresh water tank. You can see the tank sensor near the center of the photo, and the PEX tank outlet that goes to the water pump at left center. I don't know whether the sheet metal at the top of the photo is double wall or is the same piece that you can see under the trailer from the outside. I believe the vertical line to the right is one of the low point drains.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:08 PM   #89
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I blocked off half of one of the front heat outlets temporarily with some foam to take measurements. I have some 1/4" flame retardant foam sheeting on order. When it arrives I'm going to wrap into a cylindrical shape and put inside the very short section of ducts coming forward from the furnace, both for noise control and to reduce the airflow by an equivalent amount.

I'll copy my earlier observations from upthread, and add the difference between the gaucho and the other locations in brackets.

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In 15 degree outside temps, running the furnace (only, not any of my electric heat), I recorded these temperatures:

Gaucho 69
Dinette 66 [-3]
Head 61 [-8]
Bed 58 [-11]
Tonight it is a little cooler, around 11 degrees. The measurements now:

Gaucho 68
Dinette 66 [-2]
Head 65 [-3]
Bed 59 [-9]

The cold weather makes this a somewhat more demanding test, and I estimate a 5% reduction in the bracketed values if I were to retest in 15 degree conditions.

I'm pleased with the improvement in the head. The temperature measured at the bed, while better, is still a disappointment.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:28 PM   #90
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Looking at the duct temperatures, upthread we had:

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Originally Posted by Jammer View Post
Galley outlets - 160 degrees
Head - 134 degrees
Bedroom - 104 degrees
With the front outlet half blocked off as shown above I measured these values after the modifications:

Galley outlets - 162
Head - 137
Bedroom - 112

I'm not sure where to go from here. While the logical next step would be to insulate the ducts, clearance is tight.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:18 PM   #91
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Have you considered using some reflectix wrap for some of the straight runs of ducting? its not high r value but is better than what is there now and is thin enough to work with in tight spaces. I also ended up wrapping some of the enclosed compartments in reflectix on exterior surfaces to slow the heat transfer.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:30 PM   #92
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That's the sort of thing I'll have to consider. I'm going to have to measure and figure out how much clearance there really is to work with. Part of the problem is that, to insulate enough of the run, the range will have to come out, which will be a bigger project than what I've done so far.

Another possibility might be to better insulate the exterior compartment doors. The twin layout has three large externally accessible storage lockers. The queen only has one. It's one of the advantage of the twin layout. But perhaps that contributes to the heat loss.
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Old 12-19-2010, 11:46 PM   #93
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You can also apply a layer of reflectix or similar to the inside walls of the cabinets, especially around that run. That will raise the ambient temperature in those spaces a bit, and as we were taught in school, heat likes to travel down a gradient and does so faster on a steeper gradient. It will also help with condensation (or move it somewhere better ventilated.)
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Old 12-20-2010, 12:47 AM   #94
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Dave , that is exactly what I had done. While I have no quantative data on temperature increases, i do feel that this has helped duct temp to the front bedroom and reduced drafts.
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Old 12-20-2010, 08:32 AM   #95
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It's a pity that AS decided to go with that plastic over spring "cheap dryer vent" design of supply tube for the hot air.

The added resistance due to the turbulence the grooves create costs you a lot of air pressure on long runs, plus encourages dust to collect fast, as anyone with one of those tubes on their dryer already knows.

As I previously stated, on mine they still used a mini version of what tin-whackers still put in new homes (steel). And just re-sealing the joints with duct tape improved the heat and airflow on the long runs (like to the bathroom in the rear) on my '74 Sov.

Question: in the photo showing two vents (one is half plugged), are they both hot air supply vents?
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:11 AM   #96
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The two vents are both hot air supplies. They are within inches of the furnace and emit a good deal of heat and noise.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:22 PM   #97
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Quote:
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The two vents are both hot air supplies. They are within inches of the furnace and emit a good deal of heat and noise.
Hi, your trailer and your furnace are larger than mine, but my furnace only has three vents. One in the bedroom, one in the bathroom, and one in the livingroom. The one in the livingroom is located under my oven, by my entrance door, and only inches away from the actual furnace; Could you block one of the close ones off so you can get better circulation on the other ones? With two vents that close to the furnace, I can't believe that there would be much pressure or heat left for the vents 15' to 20' away.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:38 PM   #98
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Quote:
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Hi, your trailer and your furnace are larger than mine, but my furnace only has three vents. One in the bedroom, one in the bathroom, and one in the livingroom. The one in the livingroom is located under my oven, by my entrance door, and only inches away from the actual furnace; Could you block one of the close ones off so you can get better circulation on the other ones? With two vents that close to the furnace, I can't believe that there would be much pressure or heat left for the vents 15' to 20' away.
Robert,

I'll bet, if you look in your furnace installation materials, it will say that a minimum of three 4" ducts are required for proper airflow volume and heat removal from furnace box. I know the larger furnace in mine requires four 4" exits. Blocking off one of the vents may raise the furnace plenum temperature to a level unacceptable from a durability and safety standpoint.
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