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Old 12-22-2010, 11:17 PM   #127
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My rear bath is completely froze tonight. I'm monitoring this thread closely.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:54 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w7ts View Post
...That type of heavy duty construction is one of the reasons some of us (me included) are attracted to the Classic models...
+1 on that notion, ken wez bez thankn long da same lieNz...

b4 bein offended (mortally or otherwise)

it might help to have a basic understanding of what is IN the pix,

dimensionally that is.

i see about 4-6 lbs of wood.

in fact the only 'heavy item' in those 3 pix is the fiberglass shower.

as reference the whitish wall board is < 1/4 (3/16s) inch luan like ply, with a paper thin layer of vinyl skin.

the boxed construction on the Right is a combination of ply/veneer and solid stock and not very thick, around 3/8s-1/2 or so.

it's also the bed frame and drawer frames.

that same bit (bed frame/box) constructed on a safari/international weighs much more,

because of the weight of resin used in the pulverized/flake/particle composite board.

yes there are places to save weight or REdesign with strength and less weight bulk,

but that wood (or ALL of the wood) is not a large % of the weight of a classic.

the wood bits are approx 10% of the total trailer weight -/+ a point or 2.
__________

a 60s 30 footer has 1/3 LESS interior volume/space than a modern 30.

while the old stuff had/has some nice features it's still OLD STUFF.

one piece ribs, alclad and naRRow rOund streams are a thing of the past.

a/s has recently tried building units that are lighter/narrower and more spartan like a 60s unit...

they are called safari sports and not a big seller...

i wouldn't have one if it was free.

otoh the ice/coated/frosted lav is a nice way to carry extra water without a holding tank.
__________

good job jammer tearing up that new stream, it's somewhat fun to deconstruct your own thangs.

cheers
2air'
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:20 AM   #129
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I just hope this trend continues, so we can enjoy our 8 foot long Airstreams that are 31 feet wide

Seriously though... I know it's this way for several good reasons. I also know there's an alternative way of doing it that has a few advantages (that I listed) but many real world disadvantages.

It would be too much to expect Airstream to use designs that take longer to build, require a more highly skilled workforce and would use more expensive materials. This would reduce weight but at a cost that would be passed onto a consumer unwilling to pay.

This is why we buy 50s - 70s trailers and customize them to our own standards - so we can be happy with what we have.

How do 70s 31 footers compare next to 60s and current day trailers, volume-wise?
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:00 AM   #130
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while we briefly deviate (without hijacking) from jammers heating and ducting...

a 70s unit has 10-15% more volume than a 60s (that's a wag)

and 15-20% less than a modern widebody with pushed out corners.

the 70s units (later years) reached the pinnacle of utility in plastic, vinyl and thin sheet aluminum interiors...

the boxed/thin aluminum interior bits were and still are strong, durable and light weight,

much of it was riveted together and somewhat 'ikea-ish' in a good way.

the thin sheet of vinyl used over that stuff could be done NOW in very creative colors/finishes besides fake dark walnut.

in fact the fake LIGHTER wood colors used then in a few combos are still very nice.

the tambour doors were light and adequately strong and very functional...

and the overhead lockers functionally light and much smaller volume wise.

those trailers and mohos were the closest versions that's LOOKED and were assembled as 'airplane/jettish' interiors from that era.

except for the shag carpet.
_________

now, somewhat ON topic,

one of the primary issues with 50s to 70s units is heating/cooling with todays 'comfort standards' in mind.

the narrow trailers means a lot more human contact/proximity with walls and windows.

walls that are either hot or cold (moreso without a thermal break) and windows that are drafty.

providing the use is in the milder seasons, narrow isn't a big issue.

but 4 all season use or in extreme weather zones, narrow and old are issues.

this is one of the primary reasons so many old streams

end up living their 2nd or 3rd lives in places with mild weather.

cheers
2air'
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:22 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, how did you finally remove the carpeted box? I believe you said earlier that it was stapled in place; I have removed my carpeted box and found it was held in place by four screws that were driven into the carpet and very hard to find. I may in the future build another box out of oak instead of carpet over plywood. If you are able to run two 4" ducts to the bedroom and eliminate one of the front ones, you could fill the hole with something similar to the porch light and use it for an entrance light.
The carpeted box is fastened exactly as you said. I had looked in the 4" hole and saw staples but those just attach the 1x1 "nailer" piece to the bulkhead and the bed cabinetry. The carpeted box had four screws holding it in place. One of them missed the "nailer" so I only had to remove three.

I've been thinking about what to do in front. It won't be clear until I have everything reassembled and some colder weather to retest the balance whether both front registers will stay or not. I'd like to remove one and then loop the duct around a little for the other one to help with the blower noise. I removed my magazine rack to make room for a larger fire extinguisher and might end up reinstalling it over the old register hole, though the porch light idea is intriguing.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:40 AM   #132
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I did get the hole cut in the bulkhead and have expanded the opening between the closet and the area under the range but still have some fussing to do to get everything run and hooked up, probably after Christmas. I'm far enough along that I can see that this is all going to work.

One of the decisions I will have to make is what to do with the carpeted box. Since the existing hole is centered there isn't room for a new one either above or below, so I'm going to have to patch the plywood and carpet a little. Or replace the whole thing with new cabinetry. Or have the new duct come out the top, which might be OK.

Or make one big register although that will take more parts than they have at the home store. I'm not sure I want that, anyway.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:17 PM   #133
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I have the ductwork run and hooked up. Finish cabinetry including modifications to or replacement of the carpeted box and the closet floor yet remain.

It is warm, 36 degrees, outside, so I can't make measurements useful for comparison. Nonetheless, early results are good, with the bedroom area within a degree or so of the dinette.

Here's an "as flown" summary of the final mod:

Materials

4" flexible duct, two 25' sections. (can get by with one see below)
2" flexible duct, about 6'. (may not be necessary see below)
Atwood 4" round furnace collar
4" round plastic register, adjustable airflow
4" stainless steel duct clamp
Self-drilling sheet metal screws
Duct tape
Cabinetry components as required

Special tools

For twin bed configurations, clearance is tight and a 4 1/2" hole saw and right angle drill are required to cut the hole in the bulkhead. With queen layouts there is room to use a hand saw or jig saw.

Procedure

On furnace, remove the readily visible knockout facing toward the center of the trailer, forward of the existing 2" duct collar. Remove the 2" duct and collar and reinstall in the forward opening where the knockout was just removed. Install the new 4" duct collar in the opening where the 2" duct opening was and fasten using sheet metal screws.

Remove both pieces of the closet floor and the trim panel covering the back of the shower.

Remove the existing ductwork leading to the bathroom and bedroom including the T and the short 2" section leading to the freshwater tank. In my trailer the T is located in the line to the bedroom, and we will be moving it to the the line to the bathroom instead to improve airflow to the bedroom. It's not clear whether all trailers are set up this way so you may not need to change it unless you want to recover some space in the closet.

Trim the bulkhead between the closet and the range in two places. Make room for the 2" duct to come under the little storage locker under the range, so that the T can be relocated under the galley drawers where it will be out of the way. Then, trim the area where the ducts enter upward to provide clearance for a third duct.

Cut a 4 1/2" hole in the bulkhead wall between the bedroom and bathroom being careful not to hit wiring which may be loose in that area. With a flashlight it is possible to see behind the shower from the closet to be sure. If you have a twin you will have to remove the carpeted box by finding and removing four screws.

It is likely that some of the original duct is crushed as a result of installation and maintenance. You may wish to replace it in which case you'll need two 25' sections of new duct. If you're going to reuse the old duct you may have to do some patching.

Install 4" duct to the bathroom placing a T under the galley drawers for the 2" line to the freshwater tank.

Install two 4" ducts to the bedroom routing ducts over the ABS drain line from the sink as it passes the shower stall, instead of under, which is the stock setup.

Swap in the adjustable register in the lounge area and move the fixed register that was there to the bedroom.

Modify closet floor and trim as necessary and reinstall.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:24 PM   #134
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An excellent guide and clear instructions.

Thank you for taking the trouble to figure this out, and the time to share the fix with the rest of us.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:41 PM   #135
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Thanks, Jammer!

Sounds like you have achieved even airflow nirvana. Let us know the temp measurements when colder...but it looks favorable!
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:42 PM   #136
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BTW, Jammer, can you get pics of the new furnace setup?
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #137
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There are some upthread. Although I've changed around the duct destinations the furnace looks the same as when I started my earlier experiment with the 2" lines.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:03 PM   #138
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There are some upthread. Although I've changed around the duct destinations the furnace looks the same as when I started my earlier experiment with the 2" lines.

So, a 2" and a 4" steetside furnace face.
2 - 4" to the bow side furnace face
2- 4" to the stern side furnace face

Where is the other 2" to the hole in the closet floor? Is it still tee'd off the 4" at the closet, or run from the furnace?
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:07 PM   #139
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Just so on the furnace connections.

The 2" line to the freshwater tank is tee'd off the 4" run to the head, but I moved the T under the drawers to get it closer to the furnace, and to declutter the area around the water pump.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:08 PM   #140
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Just so on the furnace connections.

The 2" line to the freshwater tank is tee'd off the 4" run to the head, but I moved the T under the drawers to get it closer to the furnace, and to declutter the area around the water pump.
Got it! Thanks.
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