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07-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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New AC/Heat Pump guidance
I am wanting to install a new 15,000 BTU AC/Heat Pump unit on my 2007 Airstream Safari, has anyone done this recently, if so what would you recommend?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
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07-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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#2
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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For clarification here, what I am trying to figure our is should I go with 13,500 BTU or 15,000 BTU unit.
Thanks!
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07-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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If you are camping a lot in the hot and humid, or out in the scorching West like I do, 15K BTU will probably be better, IMHO.
What's on the rig now, and how well was it working for you were you have camped?
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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07-12-2018, 01:55 PM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Thanks for your feedback! 11,000 BTU is what came on the unit and there are times it is not adequate for our taste.
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07-12-2018, 02:22 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Then a little more to think about. The 13,500 BTU is considerably more powerful than the old 11.000 BTU.
How badly was the 11,000 falling short? Running constantly and not getting cool enough? Or just not getting cool enough?
The issue now is if you go too big in the BTU capability, it will cool down way too fast, shut down, and will not have removed enough humidity for comfort in a humid area.
In a very hot low humidity area, humidity control does not matter much--you want brute force cooling in the SoCal desert where I live.
However, when you live in Alabama, like I did, an over-powered A/C will drop the temperature very rapidly, but it will feel cold and clammy instead of comfortably cool and relatively dry. The unit doesn't suck out the moisture enough.
I keep a temperature/humidity sensor in the rig when we are on the road, so I can detect humidity issues. It seems relative humidity is often more important to comfort than the temperature. Around here, humidity is running 35-40 percent lately, and that feels very steamy to us current desert dwellers... In Alabama, I could NOT get the house to that low a humidity even running two huge AC units almost constantly--it was just that oppressive outside in the summer. I had to do a lot of work to reduce air exchange (and humidity intake) on the house. Got it better, but not ideal.
I'd love for a few other folks with a similar size Airstream to yours to chime in and relate their environment to the size of the Air Conditioner BTU rating and their resulting comfort level. It might be that a 13,500 would be better for you than a 15,500 BTU unit--I'm just not sure how to accurately pick that one, given the humidity where you live...here in the desert, it's usually "go big, or go home"! When we travel back to visit family in Alabama, we typically go in the cooler weather--to the point we need heat at night to be comfortable...
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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07-12-2018, 02:38 PM
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#6
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2 Rivet Member
2016 30' Classic
Victoria
, British Columbia
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 78
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I would reconsider whether a heat pump model is required. A heat pump is a very complicated (compressor, fan, condenser, evaporator, reversing valve, etc.) method of making warm air, and discharging it into the area of an RV that already contains the warmest air in the unit. And to add to the absurdity, it only generates heat down to around 40F. A small fan driven ceramic heater at floor level will discharge its heat to the area with the coolest room temperature, and will do a much more efficient job of circulating air. I have AC/heat pump combos in both my Mobile Suite fifth wheel and my Airstream and always default to a good quality heater at floor level.
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07-12-2018, 02:42 PM
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#7
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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I just did you 13.5 - 15K swap on our 23D
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...ml#post2121062
Feel free to ask me questions.
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07-12-2018, 02:50 PM
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#8
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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07-12-2018, 03:00 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmkrum
Then a little more to think about. The 13,500 BTU is considerably more powerful than the old 11.000 BTU.
How badly was the 11,000 falling short? Running constantly and not getting cool enough? Or just not getting cool enough?
The issue now is if you go too big in the BTU capability, it will cool down way too fast, shut down, and will not have removed enough humidity for comfort in a humid area.
In a very hot low humidity area, humidity control does not matter much--you want brute force cooling in the SoCal desert where I live.
However, when you live in Alabama, like I did, an over-powered A/C will drop the temperature very rapidly, but it will feel cold and clammy instead of comfortably cool and relatively dry. The unit doesn't suck out the moisture enough.
I keep a temperature/humidity sensor in the rig when we are on the road, so I can detect humidity issues. It seems relative humidity is often more important to comfort than the temperature. Around here, humidity is running 35-40 percent lately, and that feels very steamy to us current desert dwellers... In Alabama, I could NOT get the house to that low a humidity even running two huge AC units almost constantly--it was just that oppressive outside in the summer. I had to do a lot of work to reduce air exchange (and humidity intake) on the house. Got it better, but not ideal.
I'd love for a few other folks with a similar size Airstream to yours to chime in and relate their environment to the size of the Air Conditioner BTU rating and their resulting comfort level. It might be that a 13,500 would be better for you than a 15,500 BTU unit--I'm just not sure how to accurately pick that one, given the humidity where you live...here in the desert, it's usually "go big, or go home"! When we travel back to visit family in Alabama, we typically go in the cooler weather--to the point we need heat at night to be comfortable...
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Thank you for the detailed feedback, that has me leaning toward the 13,500.
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07-12-2018, 03:01 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camr
I would reconsider whether a heat pump model is required. A heat pump is a very complicated (compressor, fan, condenser, evaporator, reversing valve, etc.) method of making warm air, and discharging it into the area of an RV that already contains the warmest air in the unit. And to add to the absurdity, it only generates heat down to around 40F. A small fan driven ceramic heater at floor level will discharge its heat to the area with the coolest room temperature, and will do a much more efficient job of circulating air. I have AC/heat pump combos in both my Mobile Suite fifth wheel and my Airstream and always default to a good quality heater at floor level.
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Thank you for that suggestion, I will definitely give that some thought.
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07-12-2018, 03:02 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2007 22' International CCD
Corona
, California
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camr
I would reconsider whether a heat pump model is required. A heat pump is a very complicated (compressor, fan, condenser, evaporator, reversing valve, etc.) method of making warm air, and discharging it into the area of an RV that already contains the warmest air in the unit. And to add to the absurdity, it only generates heat down to around 40F. A small fan driven ceramic heater at floor level will discharge its heat to the area with the coolest room temperature, and will do a much more efficient job of circulating air. I have AC/heat pump combos in both my Mobile Suite fifth wheel and my Airstream and always default to a good quality heater at floor level.
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Agree on the complications of the heat pump, and the poor performance when it really gets cold. Add that to the thunderous noise you get--just like running the air conditioner side...and it makes little sense to make that much noise and suck that much power to heat an Airstream.
Our A/C system is a simple Air Conditioner, but it has an auxiliary heat strip for providing some heating in cold weather instead of running the compressor and all the accompanying noise you get with a heat pump. If you are hooked to adequate shore power, its nice to have in an emergency. For boondocking--useless!
For serious heating, we have the propane furnace that runs on 12 volt power. If we have shore power, one of the oil-filled 'radiator' style electric heaters works well for us. Especially since we have dogs (and the wall-to-wall dog hair carpet) and the surface temperature of this heater is very low. Either is a lot quieter and simpler that a heat pump.
__________________
Rich, KE4GNK/AE, Overkill Engineering Dept.
'The Silver HamShack' ('07 International 22FB CCD 75th Anniversary)
Multiple Yaesu Ham Radios inside and many antennae sprouting from roof, ProPride hitch, Prodigy P2 controller.
2012 shortbed CrewMax 4x4 Toyota Tacoma TV with more antennae on it.
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07-12-2018, 03:03 PM
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#12
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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My new 15K in Alabama (which is basically like living underwater) does fine dumping humidity and still runs longer than I would like between cycles.
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07-12-2018, 03:04 PM
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#13
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
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Thank you for the thread, I will have a look.
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07-12-2018, 03:07 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
My new 15K in Alabama (which is basically like living underwater) does fine dumping humidity and still runs longer than I would like between cycles.
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Thank you for the additional feedback! Where we run into problems most often, is when we cook (which we seem to do a lot of), the current system many times cannot handle the additional heat.
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07-12-2018, 03:14 PM
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#15
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Overkill Specialist
Commercial Member
2020 30’ Globetrotter
2014 23' International
Dadeville
, Alabama
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 4,516
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Right and is very slow to recover. Ours was same way.
Open the door for a few second or cook a meal and it would never recover till night time.
Now midday heat and unit holds its own.
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07-12-2018, 04:06 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
Right and is very slow to recover. Ours was same way.
Open the door for a few second or cook a meal and it would never recover till night time.
Now midday heat and unit holds its own.
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Exactly!
__________________
__________________
WBCCI #8996
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07-20-2018, 07:04 AM
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#17
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL
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Could you possibly tell me which Dometic Penguin ll 15K unit you ordered. When I look at their site in the Penguin ll, I see 13.5 then another that says "High Capacity" but I do not see a BTU number, is this the 15K? I have attached a screen shot of the one I think I need.
Thank you in advance!
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07-20-2018, 08:45 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2000 25' Safari
Davidson County
, NC Highlands County, FL
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,493
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I'm another that ditched the heat pump and went AC only.
I have two trailers, a 25' and a 34'. I chose to eliminate the heat pump and heat strip. For electric heat I use a portable tower ceramic heater that is whisper quiet. Much better noise level for sleeping.
The 25' has a 13.5 k btu Penguin, AC only. It does well in the upper 90's.
The 34' has a 15 k btu Brisk Air, AC only. It does well in the upper 90's.
At around mid 90's both units have trouble recovering/running for long periods if time, but they keep the trailers comfortable inside. I've been in the 34' when it was 105F, still comfortable, thought it is parked under a tree in the shade.
ps:
If I could do-over, I would not use the Brisk Air again. I would use the Penguin unit. Though the compressor is quieter than the Penguin, the air noise/turbulence the distribution box creates when the fan is in high speed is a lot louder overall.
ps2:
Dometic keeps changing their thermostats (Comfort Control Center #5 is out now) so that old does not work with new. Keep this in mind when selecting the replacement, check the Dometic charts.
__________________
Alan
2014 Silverado LTZ 1500 Crew Cab 5.3L maximum trailering package
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07-20-2018, 06:56 PM
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#19
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4 Rivet Member
2023 30' Classic
2014 30' FB FC Bunk
Jonesboro
, Arkansas
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 491
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Thanks for sharing!
__________________
__________________
WBCCI #8996
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