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12-19-2009, 08:49 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Furnace
Our furnace blows black smoke out the excaust. 1983 excella. Is this right or do I need to check somthing.
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12-19-2009, 09:21 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
Our furnace blows black smoke out the excaust. 1983 excella. Is this right or do I need to check somthing.
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The black smoke is "soot".
Soot is caused by not enough air mixing with the LPG.
DO NOT use the furnace, until it's overhauled.
Unless you know how to overhaul the furnace, take it to a shop and have it done correctly.
The furnace will have to be removed, disassembled on a bench, overhauled and then retested, on a bench.
After that, then it would be safe to reinstall in your Airstream, and use.
Andy
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12-20-2009, 04:56 AM
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#3
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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83 Excella Repairs
Andy does the furnace just need to be cleaned out you think? I am not a professional, however I have always done my on work. Is this a task that I might be Abel to do my self? I am fairly mechanically inclined. Do you think it would pay to replace it if I cannot overhaul it as you say. With a newer more efficient heater.I just bought this trailer this pass Thursday. It is super clean inside and out. It was our intent to bring it back up mechanically as top shape as possible. The trailer is a 1983 excella 31'. As long as we are on the subject of repairs. The air conditioner compressor does not kick on. Any Ideals on that? Could anyone tell me what a quality air unit and furnace unit would cost for this trailer. Both being efficient. I do appreciate you kindness in trying to help out here. We are new here to this forum and have already noticed the willingness of everyone to help. What a wonderful Ideal in this day and time. Thanks in advance for you help.
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12-20-2009, 08:35 AM
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#4
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
Andy does the furnace just need to be cleaned out you think? I am not a professional, however I have always done my on work. Is this a task that I might be Abel to do my self? I am fairly mechanically inclined. Do you think it would pay to replace it if I cannot overhaul it as you say. With a newer more efficient heater.I just bought this trailer this pass Thursday. It is super clean inside and out. It was our intent to bring it back up mechanically as top shape as possible. The trailer is a 1983 excella 31'. As long as we are on the subject of repairs. The air conditioner compressor does not kick on. Any Ideals on that? Could anyone tell me what a quality air unit and furnace unit would cost for this trailer. Both being efficient. I do appreciate you kindness in trying to help out here. We are new here to this forum and have already noticed the willingness of everyone to help. What a wonderful Ideal in this day and time. Thanks in advance for you help.
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A furnace thats 27 years old, is sort of like a person, in a small way.
It needs a "physical".
Who knows the what the history of the furnace, might be?
That is not something to guess about.
When the furnace is on the bench, it should be disassembled, for cleaning and inspection. Since it's been blowing out some soot, the combustion chamber will need to be thoroughly cleaned out. That cannot, in this case, be done with air. Running plenty of water thru the combustion chambers (several chambers) will eventually clean it out. Next, all the gaskets will need replacing. Then what is the condition of the burner log? If it's look ok, then it's wise to run a "hack saw blade" thru the slots, but gently. That will clean the slots out. The condition of the blower motor is sort of subjective, in that "how well is it running"? Is it up to speed?
Then you can supply some LPG to the furnace, and see how it runs, "ON THE BENCH". You will have to adjust the "air mixture" for a proper flame. You should also determine "WHY" the air mixture went south. If you find it way out of adjustment, then what "caused the mis-adjustment"? It cannot change unless forced to do so.
The air mixture setting can be disturbed by vibration. That vibration can be from several different things or a combination of things. Excessive rated tow vehicle, excessive rated hitch torsion bars, lack of or improper running gear balance, and even axles that have had the rubber rods fail.
Make sure you use the LPG regulator for the hookup. The LPG pressure should be 11 to 13 inches of water column pressure, preferrably 12 inches.
Make sure the battery for the test has a full charge.
If you cannot do the above, then have an RV shop do it for you. If you do that, "MAKE SUPER SURE THEY CLEAN THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER THOROGHLY".
The AC problem can be caused by a loose wire in the thermostat circuit, a thermostat that needs repair, a bad relay in the AC, or even a compressor failure. When you tst the AC, make sure that an extension cord (if your using one) is at least a 10 gauge cord, but no longer than about 25 feet.
Questions??
Andy
I cannot post prices on the Forums on anything that we sell, since we are a vendor.
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12-20-2009, 09:07 AM
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#5
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Many thanks Andy. I got my worked cut out. All the information is helpfull. Does not sound to bad. Used to put bushings in a swamp cooler motor at midnight in my boxer shorts , half asleep. When they would go out. Have a great day.
Tom C
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12-27-2009, 02:42 PM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Furnace
__________________
Tom C.
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12-27-2009, 02:48 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1984 31' Airstream310
Ajo
, Arizona
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,649
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Have it pulled and looked at; it may be junk depending on the usage. Ours comes out with the cage staying inside; we are the same year, I can't believe AS would do it any different in the trailers. Honestly, I'd replace the furnace and have a pro do it; there are propane issues to be dealt with on a coach that old.
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12-27-2009, 03:40 PM
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#8
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Thanks for the input Mike. Yes I believe I will pull it. However I think at this time I am still going to look for some encouragement and give it a whirl. Sounds like it needs to be just cleaned up good. I got my curiosity up as to what it might look like on the inside. How bad it is worn and all. Does not look to bad from the outside.
__________________
Tom C.
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12-27-2009, 06:33 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1969 31' Sovereign
Broken Arrow
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,455
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One thing Andy mentioned is you MUST use a regulator when bench testing.
I have pulled, repaired and tested 2 of them. You have the manual and common sense will take you a long way. However working with propane can be dangerous and very unforgiving.
__________________
Garry
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12-27-2009, 07:18 PM
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#10
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Regulator
Garry Would you mind giving me the run down on what you mean by using the the regulator to bench test it. Like maybe how you bench tested and the procedure you used? I was thinking about hooking it up to my propane bottles. Using those regulators. I guess I will need a hose or and fitting to make that connection to gas supply. Can you shed some light on that for me? Other than that I guess I need to make a visual inspection of the chamber and burner and clean them up good. Tighten all the fittings good against the gaskets. Let me know what I might be missing or need to do. I am open for input as I said in my earlier post. Andy really laid it good. He gave me the confidence to do this myself. I would also like others thoughts on this procedure. Do I need casket sealer. What type. New furnace tape to tape around duct connection. Surely there is something I am missing. Other dangers to watch for.What else do I really need to watch for. Thanks for any help in advance.
__________________
Tom C.
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01-01-2010, 08:12 PM
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#11
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Thanks to all the fellows who were kind enough to put in there two cents about removing and repairing my furnace. My wife and I took it out tonight in about 15 minutes. Piece a cake. I will clean it tomorrow and resemble then bench test. Two yellow wires is the thermostat. Red and black to battery. Hook up to some propane and we will bench test it.
__________________
Tom C.
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01-01-2010, 08:44 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
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Having your furnace working properly is a matter of life & death. I considered what you are starting to do now about six months ago & I decided to either get a new furnace, have a professional repairman fix and test it, or re-think my idea of having a furnace at all. The things that a pro will check and test are things you and I might never think of, and you might get less than perfect advise from a well meaning person who is not necessarily more knowledable than you about your furnace's issues. I know there is some specialized equipment needed in some cases as well, such as to measure the gas pressure.
It sounds like you are set on doing this, so I hope that you will at least have it checked out by a pro after you do the work, before you use it to camp in. I get sick when I hear of Airstreams burning up or exploding.
Happy new Year!
Rich the Viking
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01-01-2010, 09:22 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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[QUOTE=Okiegent;. Andy how long to ship my gaskets?Pulling it seems to be the thing to do. This is a 1983 excella 31'.[/QUOTE]
Parts are shipped same day, if ordered before noon time.
Take your time with the overhaul. Don't rush it.
Andy
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01-02-2010, 06:47 PM
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#14
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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I found out my son down south of me has been pulling them and repairing them on the side for a fellow that runs a RV dealership. He has been leading me along. I had this out in 15 minutes with my wifes help. He has the knowledge, on how to bench test the furnace so I don't feel unsafe with him along with me.I will pull the burner as well and follow his ,Andy's and the books guide lines. I have recommended this site to several people already that are purchasing or planing on working on their trailers. You all have been super in my book. Thanks for all your willingness to help!!
__________________
Tom C.
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01-02-2010, 07:17 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1969 31' Sovereign
Broken Arrow
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,455
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Sorry I didn't get back sooner, I just bought a spare regulator and hooked it to a propane tank and ran a line to the furnace. Had the furnace on a bench in the garage propane tank setting just outside the door.
Sounds like you have everything under control.
__________________
Garry
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01-17-2010, 08:59 AM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Well I have the furnace back in. Wasp screens installed hahah. There was a ton of Oklahoma dirt in it. The furnace runs great. Does what it is suppose to do no black soot. However,I have a oder coming from it that is making our noses burn. Could this be the new gaskets burning off the new smell. Also the fan ran great on the bench before I installed it back and as well before I took it out. It does however squeal loudly on start up then quietens down. Any help with these issues or thoughts would be appreciated.Have a great day .
__________________
Tom C.
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01-17-2010, 09:05 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
Well I have the furnace back in. Wasp screens installed hahah. There was a ton of Oklahoma dirt in it. The furnace runs great. Does what it is suppose to do no black soot. However,I have a oder coming from it that is making our noses burn. Could this be the new gaskets burning off the new smell. Also the fan ran great on the bench before I installed it back and as well before I took it out. It does however squeal loudly on start up then quietens down. Any help with these issues or thoughts would be appreciated.Have a great day .
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The bearings in the motor are dry.
You have 2 choices.
1. Remove the furnace again, take the motor apart, lube the bearings, reassemble and reinstall. If that lasts 90 days, you will be doing great.
2. If the rest of the furnace is OK, then replace the motor. Then you can look forward to another 15 to 20 years, of satisfactory operation.
The smell can be coming from whatever cleaning solvents you may have used. Certainly, "NOT" from the gaskets.
Andy
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01-17-2010, 07:12 PM
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#18
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Yea I was thinking that Andy. I was more or less looking for someone to agree with my thinking. I will probably take it out lube the bearings reinstall it and see if the fan might of got pinched to tight against the box when I put it in.. If that does not work I will purchase a new motor. Twenty seven years is a good run on a motor. Although I have one in a table saw that sees more use and is over thirty five years old and still running. I appreciate your answering the post and your input.
__________________
Tom C.
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01-17-2010, 07:18 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegent
Yea I was thinking that Andy. I was more or less looking for someone to agree with my thinking. I will probably take it out lube the bearings reinstall it and see if the fan might of got pinched to tight against the box when I put it in.. If that does not work I will purchase a new motor. Twenty seven years is a good run on a motor. Although I have one in a table saw that sees more use and is over thirty five years old and still running. I appreciate your answering the post and your input.
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Huge difference between those motors.
The 120 VAC motor for your saw, is, if you wish, designed for rugged use, and lots of it.
On the other hand, the 12 VDC motor in your furnace, is designed for reasonable service, on a moderate basis.
The huge difference is also the price of saw motors, which are usually less than the furnace motors.
Go figure.
Andy
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01-18-2010, 05:52 AM
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#20
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4 Rivet Member
1983 31' Excella
Choctaw
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 296
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Perplexed
I did not use chemicals to clean the furnace out. Elbow grease and anything else I could get in there,to include water,water water. For the life of me I was thinking it might of been that new caskets set I put on it. The smell that is. Any way enough beating gums here. Thanks again Andy for your thoughts and input to the post. Have a great day fellow!!
__________________
Tom C.
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